[CT-CS2] Carl vs. Bang

[DubiousDanzai]

What do I do, and does my 6a work here?

[Zoogstin]

I'm not sure if 6A works against this guy. His foot extends really far out when he attacks you from the air. One thing I learned is to not quick get up against this guy when he knocks you down. That's where his pressure shines. I'm still learning the matchup myself.

[Kyle]

I learned one VERY crucial thing while playing a good Bang. Don't InstantBlock. This enhances his pressure/guardCrush giving Bang the opportunity to TK-Kuni all over again. I seriously let him do (3) full pressure strings with (2) TigerKnee'd Kuni all because I was IB'ing too much. By this point I had no barrier and suffered that ugly negative penalty/Guard break combo. It was viscous. The solution is to treat this like Slayer and barrier until a hole is created.

[WUT]

Ib 2b, jump out. If you barrier guard 2b, tk nails are guaranteed. 2b and 3c are your best pokes. 6a is a poor aa. J.a or 623 ]d[ are your best bet, the former loses to j.b however.

[Zoogstin]

Wait I don't get it. Why would you loose barrier gauge from IB'ing?

[Kyle]

Come on zoogs, that wasn't a cause & effect statement. Just a reference to how bad I got creamed. lol Don't drop combo and Bang goes down fast. =P

[Zoogstin]

Come on zoogs, that wasn't a cause & effect statement. Just a reference to how bad I got creamed.

I can relate.

[4Corners]

Don't drop combo and Bang goes down fast. =P

This.

I need to fight good Bang players. I haven't really had trouble with any so far, and I KNOW I'm going to need to know this match-up better.

[Zoogstin]

the matchup is harder than you think. I friended some good bang players that made my head hurt. Afterwhile I was able to figure the matchup and I started to do fine against them, but it was a learning process.

[4Corners]

I need to do that. Hell, I need to do that with pretty much every character.

[Reioumu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUOhjW2AXM

Hide behind Nirvana so she cam eat nails for breakfast. Carl can get in pretty fast, and he just has so many ways to combo into a clap loop so it shouldn't be hard. Any knowledgeable bangs will burst during the beginning of a clap loop so yeah. Also Nirvana's anti-air move is good to stop bang in his tracks.

[sehaitt]

I usually don't have trouble with Bangs but I've seen this technique played out a few times and wonder how I can get out of it if it happens again. If Bang catches you in the corner of the screen, he'll do his "Dagger-raining-umbrella" distortion, then if you block it, he rushes in and does a throw move on you while you're in block stun. Any way to get out of this without eating the distortion? Can I throw block while being hammered with the daggers? Or will it just be something I have to see coming and dash out of the corner?

[Zoogstin]

If you see the distortion drive startup, just dash forward and you avoid it completely. If you get caught in it and the bang goes for the throw, you can throw break it and still be able to block.

[ShinsoBEAM]

Wonder if you guys knew about this but its p. funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdTwF0YfZE&feature=related

[Eshi]

yeeeah, that's happened to me before.

[4Corners]

Used to happen to me a lot. Now I just let them hit the doll, then I get a free loop!

[huey253]

oh btw, i know this is random and all but for CS the match up vs bang and carl feels like its still in carl's favor but not by much. yes, bang does scary damage and all, but bang has several of the same issues he had fighting aganist carl in CT. I may be wrong but if Carl doesn't drop his combos, CS bang players will have some trouble beating up on Carl...

[Zoogstin]

I find that a good Bang in CT really hard to fight. I can't out poke the guy.

[Dacidbro]

oh btw, i know this is random and all but for CS

the match up vs bang and carl feels like its still in carl's favor but not by much.

yes, bang does scary damage and all, but bang has several of the same issues he had fighting aganist carl in CT. I may be wrong but if Carl doesn't drop his combos, CS bang players will have some trouble beating up on Carl...

I disagree, although I do think it is even or only slightly Bang's favor.

The problem is Carl can't keep up with Bang's new crazy normals, and Bang's pressure gives him problems just like it did in CT, only now Carl doesn't have an infinite to win for free.

Still, a Carl that's sick on the resets is going to be able to keep up, for sure. A very dangerous character.

[Kyle]

Autoguard > Resets. Gotta bait & punish.

[Dacidbro]

Autoguard > Resets.

Gotta bait & punish.

Nope, autoguard is actually overall quite bad now.

Abuse the fact that Bang's 5D and 2D both get hit low now, and if you continue like nothing happened even if he 6D's you're gonna hit him 90% of the time with Carl's quick normals.

[feri]

j.d just like in CT halts bangs air decent so you must still bait it regardless of auto guard or not... plus i have this inkling its positive/near positive on block :S

[Adelheid]

If you IB it you can 5A him before his landing recovery ends. As long as his jD was done relatively high, you can 5B him before his landing recovery ends, too. This should logically mean that if his 5D is done pretty well off the ground, you don't even have to IB it to 5A him, but this isn't something I'd count on (although, if he doesn't have meter, I would try it anyway... I mean really, what's the worst that could happen? He blocks and you get pressure?)

[Dacidbro]

Just.. something to clarify, 5D off the ground is jD. There is no other aerial guard point owned by Bang, barring his astral. 5D is a grounded guard point, so discussing it 'starting high' and talking about it's 'landing recovery' is inherently incorrect. But I think you are talking about jD, so I can at least help you out there. His jD can be really hard to punish without IB, since a seasoned Bang should understand that if it is used high, there are possible punishes even on standard guard. This being well known, the most common time jD will be thrown is on descent just above the ground, so that without IB a punishment is impossible, it will stuff any sort of attack (I believe even the hat), and be unpunishable on block. A possible solution is a quick 236236A, I think this should go right through it, avoid getting put in blockstun, and leave Bang quite open for punishment. Hope this helps, if it's faulty, let me know.

[Mascarpone]

236236A ... ? u mean 236A? A vivace? Vivace has really terrible recovery time :x