[CT-CS2] Jin Block strings, frame traps, gimmicks, etc.

[Killey]

How does this reset work? Is it because people don't realize they don't need to shake out of the second 6D and end up getting tagged with 5A/5B before they realize?

Yep, that's exactly what happens and as I said it's an extremely odd reset tool and even if they do block you've forced them on the defensive again back into frame traps. However, I shouldn't say it requires quick reflexes as the smart person can just hold back to block. You can vary it up with 3C trip into 2B (OTG), 5C, SJC, air combo or air combo ending in freeze, land and attempt a rush down.

Personally, I'd go for the riskier plays and go for things that give me better position/options then aiming for confirmed damage. I'm fully aware that if I did an OTG combo I could follow up with common BnB air combo or I could prematurely end it with a jD allowing me to land and dash in with more pressure as my opponent is trying to mash out of ice. Opponent can't neutral or tech roll to safety and are forced to block or get hit. If they block I remain on the offensive and keep the pressure up until I sneak in a hit.

[Killey]

Found some gimmicks and character specific resets today. Gimmicks: 1) This is a really old gimmick that I use quite a lot. Block String into IAD j236D which causes a reverse cross up situation. What happens is that you IAD over there head tricking them into thinking of a cross up j.D or j.B but instead you do j236D and because Jin jumps back when he does this it pushes them back onto the original side forcing your opponent to block in their original position. To get the best effect you have to be really close to the opponent when you do the IAD to get the best possible mix up. Slightly further away and you lose the full potential of this mix up. 2) Now if you want to "cross them up" with the j236D in the above scenario delay the j236D by a second. Also, instead of inputting j236D you are going to be inputting j214D but that's a matter of perspective. What happens is that typically IAD into a move comes out quick enough for a cross up situation to occur and as I mentioned with IAD j236D you get a reverse thing happening. If you delay the j236D by a slight second the opponent auto corrects the way he is facing the j236D will now "cross up". It's not really a cross up but it's a way to trick them into thinking that. Be careful as opponents who catch wise to this strategy can just jump back and you end up doing an ice car instead. 3) Jump over your opponent's head, small delay, then IAD back into j.B was an old Jin cross up much like Ky's in GG AC. You do the delay so that you don't IAD back to the original side you actually stay on the side the opponent is facing. You could do it earlier and IAD back to your side but if you do nail the cross up you won't have any follow ups due to the way he lands. To add a bit of a twist to this, throw out a j236D after wards and the 3rd sword that goes diagonal down the most will hit the opponent really close. If they block the j236D it will actually cause a vacuum effect. You get +22 frames off of j236D if I recall correctly and since you land as they are getting pulled toward you, you can continue your pressure. Essentially, you've framed trapped them with this as well. It's highly situational and you will probably pull this off maybe once in like 50 matches. Resets & Mix Ups: In the combo thread I've posted many things that lead into this corner combo. 5C, 6C, 6D, 6C, 236D (2 hits), 623A, 236D (Last hit). This combo is excellent as it does 4000+ damage most of the time and gives you reset, mix ups, and corner oki options. Here's some reset/mix up options after the last hit of 236D refreezes your opponent. 1) 5B (2 hits), 5C, 3C, 236C - Trip into C Ice Sword for oki options 2) 5B (2 hits), delay, throw - Most people don't expect the throw after 5B 3) IAD before they land from the last hit of 236D and do j.B, j.A, land, anything (won't work on characters like Ragna due to their funny frozen hit boxes) Bang Specific Resets: Normally, 5B, 5C, j.B, etc... doesn't combo on Bang due to his hit boxes; however, someone mentioned that j.B, j.C, j.D will combo on Bang off of 2C. Unfortunately, this means that this combo is only limited to specific freeze combos like 2D/6D but all the typical j.B, j.A resets apply now giving Jin more tools to work with during the match up.

[smooshman]

most of my tricks are things like: if the opponent's blocking replace 214a/b/c/d with 236a/b/c/d it moves you back and if they aren't expecting it they eat ice the other is 5c>623a similar to the above it moves you back and if they don't expect the fly away

[Airyaxe]

If Tager Sledges through your 5D you can instantly pull out a 623C which will counter-hit. I always try to bait Tagers to sledge through my ice. Resets: Ground Combo -> 5C -> J.B -> J.A(whiff) -> Reset(2B) Air Combo -> J.D -> Land -> Reset(6A) Air Combo -> J.D -> Ice Car A -> Land -> Reset(Fubiki B) Ground Combo -> Ice Car D -> 2C -> Air Grab(reject) -> Reset(Air Dash)

[Blade]

My last few matches with DJ_Blastricity proved to me I am totally incapable of using 6C properly as he punished me each and every time. Not only that, but 623A keeps wiffing crouchers...so I'd like some suggestions on what to do on block that's "safe". I'm apparently not good at 5C>IAD j.D crossup...so I'm looking for other mixups and stuff that puts me in range instead of being pushed away or open to punishment.

Primarily I can't get close enough to Jin mirrors or Bang cuz they barrier me out.

Most importantly, I have issues with being "too predictable"...I'd like help with that especially.

[Roldy]

I wouldn't recommend using too much 6C outside of combos or when you know it's going to hit (i.e. to punish). 623A should not be used on block...either use the other DP's in anticipation of punishment (don't spam this though) or use 236A to end your block string somewhat safely (depends if they IB or not). Or, if you happened to use a jump cancelable normal, just jump away, or jump back in to continue your blockstring.

As for 5C > IAD > j.D crossup, I wouldn't recommend using this. If they block it, or if you whiff, then you're basically free for punishing. If you're going to try any sort of crossups (or fake crossups) try 5C > IAD > 236D for a fake crossup, or 5B > jump cancel forward > j.B for an ambiguous crossup (the j.b may have to be delayed).

Unfortunately, Jin's mixup and blockstrings aren't very strong, so one of his main problems is continuing pressure without any meter. There's not much you can do about that.

[CaelSeraphim]

I like to blockstring into IAD > j.D. Other wise known as the reverse freeze. It's pretty much guaranteed to land unless you mess up the IAD or the opponent notices it, blocks & punishes. Its also a good substitute for ending a blockstring with 3C > 236A.

Another gimmick i use is Jin's 214B on blockstring, after the 2nd hit is blocked i go for a rapid cancel into air dash j.2C > j.D

Its a good gimmick against Ragna's who will be desperate to ID through all your shit.

I've noticed that i like to do 5B, 2B, 5C, jump cancel delayed j.B, then from there i go for a dashing 6A

[Jetm]

A fun little trick to do during a blockstring is to do j.5B j.5A against a grounded opponent and then airdash just before you land into j.5B j.2C or land and 2B/3C for a decent high/low mix-up.

[CaelSeraphim]

Ive been experimenting and i finally worked out a reset.

j.D(Preferrable if you j.2D into this) > j.236D > (dashing) 6C > 5C > jump cancel > j.A > j.B > jump cancel > grab whiff > falling j.B > Combo

The trick is to have the opponent land before you do. After the grab you should be slightly higher than your opponent while in the air.

(Here is the flaw in this reset)

It will only work if your opponent is rushing to tech out of your combo.

As soon as they tech, the j.B hits and starts up a new combo opportunity.

[Yuushiro]

jD and j2D are not different at all.

your grab won't whiff easily too except you delay it if you do it off jB, it would be a purple throw instead except you angle upward or something...

also what do you mean by falling jB? delayed jB?

this is not a really good idea since your enemy will have ground before you do and you already used your extra jump/airdash, they can do whatever AA they want to counter you.

you might use it online or for gimmicks but I don't recommend it as something you might use often.

[CaelSeraphim]

jD and j2D are not different at all.

your grab won't whiff easily too except you delay it if you do it off jB, it would be a purple throw instead except you angle upward or something...

also what do you mean by falling jB? delayed jB?

this is not a really good idea since your enemy will have ground before you do and you already used your extra jump/airdash, they can do whatever AA they want to counter you.

you might use it online or for gimmicks but I don't recommend it as something you might use often.

It usually works about... 78% of the time. It really depends on the match up which is something i forgot to mention. Valk, Haku, Haz, and Lambda are the best match ups for this. Also, only works on a neutral air teching opponent.

Falling j.B or delayed j.B is simply the jump B attack, executed right before hitting the ground.

[Moy_X7]

I have to agree with Yuushiro here; that sounds really, really gimmicky and not too attractive because of the 25 Heat required for the j.236D.

[TCSyd]

j236D ender air reset into AUB is very gimmicky, but if your opponent is too stupid to BB 6C, it's pretty rape, I guess. Airborne reset isn't bad, but not worth 25 heat, IMO.

[Moy_X7]

j236D ender air reset into AUB is very gimmicky, but if your opponent is too stupid to BB 6C, it's pretty rape, I guess. Airborne reset isn't bad, but not worth 25 heat, IMO.

Wait, what? I thought that the stupid thing here would be to not BB 6C. Although the reward that comes with this reset is well worth the risk. Meh, I prefer meterless resets and feint cross-ups if I have to spend meter. The 3C > 236D reset is worth it since you're adding a bit more damage as well as mix-up and baiting options.

[TCSyd]

Correct, not BBing 6C would be stupid. Phrasing may have confused you (that is, "X is too stupid to do Y," not "X is stupid enough to do Y").

[xlolxlolx]

^lol

[CaelSeraphim]

grab > 214A > 66 or 44 > 6C

in other words, the throw cross under. 6C usually connects b/c the opponent is mashing to break out of ice. More likely than not, you'll get a CH off of the 6C, so a good follow up to that would be 6C CH > DC > 6C > 2D (then do whatever you feel up to this point.)

[Moy_X7]

Blocked j.B/j.2C/j.D cross-up > j.236D double cross-up, was this gimmick discussed before? As of now, I can get it to work on Tager. It works in the same way as a j.236D feint-cross-up would. You cross somebody up with j.B/j.2C/j.D and if gets blocked then you cancel it into j.236D, that which pushes Jin back to the other side. Tager is such a fat bastard that it actually works on him and it works against Arakune with the right spacing. It might work against more character but i don't know as of yet. *shrugs*

[daisuke86]

this was quite helpful...I was having trouble trying to think of pressure chains...and then I brainfart halfway through the battle due to doing the same thing each time and my opponent knowing my every move -_-...also when is it a good time to throw in 6A? maybe I should just read more

[Nini Heart]

grab > 214A > 66 or 44 > 6C

in other words, the throw cross under. 6C usually connects b/c the opponent is mashing to break out of ice. More likely than not, you'll get a CH off of the 6C, so a good follow up to that would be 6C CH > DC > 6C > 2D (then do whatever you feel up to this point.)

You should mention that you're talking about netplay tactics

[Lucien]

You should mention that you're talking about netplay tactics

^ Netplay everywhere D:

@Daisuke: Alot of Jins go for a dash split 2a > 6a, but it's easier to go for 6a set ups in the corner.

Example:

6c > 6d > IAD j.2c > dash 6a.

You always want to make sure you have 50 meter to RC if you get blocked.

EDIT: Bolded word, my apologies

[daisuke86]

@Lucien so should I guess I should throw them in when I know that I can capitalize with the overhead with a 6A>214D>corner combo...I see thanks for the advice

[Lucien]

@Lucien so should I guess I should throw them in when I know that I can capitalize with the overhead with a 6A>214D>corner combo...I see thanks for the advice

Please re-read my original statement, I left out a key word.

These are the most common set ups into 6A:

dash split 2A > 6A

6C > 6D > IAD j.2c > dash 6A.

Now after 6A you have three possible choices:

214x (optimal, basic setup)

Sekkajin (optimal, better in corner, usually whiffs or gets blocked at midscreen)

RC > combo (not optimal, I wouldn't suggest using this unless it's for the kill)

[Nini Heart]

Don't forget 6A>623B/D in the corner.

[daisuke86]

@Lucien oh I never really tried to do combos with IAD since it's hard for me to push with the controller...atm I'm saving for a fight stick so inputs would be much easier...

I never really thought of doing a sekkajin after all that since I usually try playing safe and do a little j.C or j.B to shove myself in and if that works I go 2D>66>6B>sekkajin blahblahblah or if it was 623B in the corner I do 6D...then my block chains usually consist of 2a>5b>5c>then I end with 3C even though I know its unsafe...any suggestions on what I should change from that?