adversesolutions Report post Posted October 21, 2015 For those interested in the arcade version of UNI, this blog which posts a lot of arcade strategies put up their analysis of the top tiers in UNIst:http://esports-runner.com/under-night-in-birth/chara_rank/SSeth, Vatista, Akatsuki, PhononAEltnum, Hyde, Rinne, Orie, Byakuya, MerkavaBChaos, Nanase, Carmine, Yuzuriha, Walenstein, Gordeau, HildaI mostly agree with these from what I've seen in the arcades here and on streams. I might move Nanase up to tier A, but that could just be because I have a pretty monstrous one at my local arcade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted October 22, 2015 That list has seen a lot of criticism. I don't agree with some of it myself.Phonon S? Byakuya A? Nanase B?Yeah no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mefistopheles Report post Posted October 22, 2015 How big is the gap between S and B Tier? Has every character a good chance of winning? Are Mu's more important than actual tier placement? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackYakuzu94 Report post Posted October 22, 2015 That list has seen a lot of criticism. I don't agree with some of it myself.Phonon S? Byakuya A? Nanase B?Yeah no. I dunno, I'd say both characters are plenty strong honestly. Phonon has extremely good normals and Byakuya's new web mechanics make for some really busted Oki in the corner. That said, I find it extremely hard to believe Carmine, Gordeau, or Hilda are that low; not only did they not change too much, I don't think the buffs for the low tiers were that significant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted October 22, 2015 I'd put phonon A and Byakuya S is what I meant. Phonon's pretty good, but I haven't seen anything from her that screams top tier. Not even close.Byakuya on the other hand is a damage and setplay monster. He is fearsome in UNIST.I'd rank Nanase A, she got way too many buffs to to remain B. Nobody in Japan even knows how to play her besides Hishigata. (at least from what online play and streams show. There could always be hidden offline warriors) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adversesolutions Report post Posted October 23, 2015 I personally agree with Phonon S. At least as far as I can see, she has no particular weakness in her game. She has an SRK-esque get off me move, a strong close-up game, a very strong mid-range game and a decent long-range game. Here's a good example, this video of Satomaru playing against Rinne-chan:Satomaru is one of the most offensive players out there, but he has a really hard time re-starting offense once she gets her mid-range game going. There's also the fact that GO1 took Arc Revolution with Phonon, although you can attribute a lot of that to people not being used to the character yet. Still, I think at this stage, an S rating is reasonable and am curious why others don't think so.For Byakuya and Nanase, I agree they should be S and A respectively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tong Report post Posted October 23, 2015 Phonon's pretty good, but I haven't seen anything from her that screams top tier. Not even close.Let's see... Huge, imposing normals and projectiles that gives her very strong space control, good mobility that coupled with her space controlling capabilities makes Phonon very hard to deal with. And last but not least huge damage off metered conversions, which is pretty good because she doesnt need to rely on meter to enforce her pressure.All in all, she's a solid, strong character with many strengths and little to no weaknesses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted October 24, 2015 She has no mixup at range, her only overhead is from neutral and she has no meterless reversal. I'd say those qualify as pretty significant weaknesses. Yeah she has her strengths as well, but I don't see the S tier in her. Judging from 13:15 of the above vid, it also seems like there's a hurtbox in her whip moves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madigawadesperate Report post Posted October 24, 2015 She has no mixup at range, her only overhead is from neutral and she has no meterless reversal. I'd say those qualify as pretty significant weaknesses. Yeah she has her strengths as well, but I don't see the S tier in her. Judging from 13:15 of the above vid, it also seems like there's a hurtbox in her whip moves.FF is head invul and can be used as an anti-air similarly to hilda's 3b. She does have mixup at range the only issue is it's metered(22c). I agree that phonon isn't s tier and later on in the games life people will realize it(like waldstien). . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackYakuzu94 Report post Posted October 24, 2015 This is a game where long-ranged normals excel above all else, so in that regard, Phonon is definitely one of the better characters in the game for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redsilversnake Report post Posted October 24, 2015 She has no mixup at range, her only overhead is from neutral and she has no meterless reversal. I'd say those qualify as pretty significant weaknesses. Yeah she has her strengths as well, but I don't see the S tier in her. Judging from 13:15 of the above vid, it also seems like there's a hurtbox in her whip moves.There have been a number of top tier characters in FGs with lackluster mixup and no freely accessible reversals. It doesn't matter that a character lacks something if what they do have is more than enough to compensate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted October 24, 2015 FF is head invul and can be used as an anti-air similarly to hilda's 3b. She does have mixup at range the only issue is it's metered(22c). I agree that phonon isn't s tier and later on in the games life people will realize it(like waldstien). If it's metered, then it's really not worth mentioning. Unless she also has a low super, you just block high on reaction to superflash.I haven't seen her FF used as anti-air, but in theory that's a useful tool, especially since it's one button. Do you know when it becomes head invuln? I assume it's not frame 1. This is a game where long-ranged normals excel above all else, so in that regard, Phonon is definitely one of the better characters in the game for it.Long range normals are very good, but according to that list, the top tiers are the two characters with the shortest range normals in the game, one with average range normals and Phonon. I don't know if I would say it trumps all else. They're certainly good though, sure. There have been a number of top tier characters in FGs with lackluster mixup and no freely accessible reversals. It doesn't matter that a character lacks something if what they do have is more than enough to compensate.I'm well aware of that; what I was responding to is the statement that Phonon has little to no weaknesses. She has noteworthy weaknesses. What are her strengths though? Big normals, a good projectile and decent mobility that amount to strong spacing, and respectable damage. Is that really all it takes to be S tier in UNIST? Many characters seem to be scarier than that to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madigawadesperate Report post Posted October 25, 2015 If it's metered, then it's really not worth mentioning. Unless she also has a low super, you just block high on reaction to superflash.I haven't seen her FF used as anti-air, but in theory that's a useful tool, especially since it's one button. Do you know when it becomes head invuln? I assume it's not frame 1.I actually believe it's when she starts spinning the whip which might be frame 3????(theory fighter, my favorite)Also she doesn't have a low super but 22c is still worth mentioning just incase the opponent is asleep. When I get the game i'm going to see how low I can do j.[c] to the ground(like hilda's j.[c])This is a game where long-ranged normals excel above all else, so in that regard, Phonon is definitely one of the better characters in the game for it.I agree, but under no circumstance i'd put her as a top 5 character with that and that alone. Her stagger pressure is going to be insanely good tho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zouf Report post Posted October 25, 2015 I personally agree with Phonon S. At least as far as I can see, she has no particular weakness in her game. She has an SRK-esque get off me move, a strong close-up game, a very strong mid-range game and a decent long-range game. Here's a good example, this video of Satomaru playing against Rinne-chan:Satomaru is one of the most offensive players out there, but he has a really hard time re-starting offense once she gets her mid-range game going. There's also the fact that GO1 took Arc Revolution with Phonon, although you can attribute a lot of that to people not being used to the character yet. Still, I think at this stage, an S rating is reasonable and am curious why others don't think so.For Byakuya and Nanase, I agree they should be S and A respectively.Holy shit they did it again. Another retarded matchup where you spend 80s timer blocking at mid range with Hyde. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColonCleanse Report post Posted October 26, 2015 Holy shit they did it again. Another retarded matchup where you spend 80s timer blocking at mid range with Hyde.Yeah. I don't know enough about her and don't play this game enough to say whether she's top tier, but she looks incredibly unfun to play against at least in that matchup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tong Report post Posted October 26, 2015 I'm well aware of that; what I was responding to is the statement that Phonon has little to no weaknesses. She has noteworthy weaknesses. What are her strengths though? Big normals, a good projectile and decent mobility that amount to strong spacing, and respectable damage. Is that really all it takes to be S tier in UNIST? Many characters seem to be scarier than that to me.I believe you have misunderstood what @redsilversnake said. The lack of a tool doesnt automatically means it's a character's weakness, because it's usually an intentional part of the character's design to balance their strengths. Giving a character like Phonon a reliable DP and good mixup at many ranges isnt sensible considering she already exceeds in other areas. If by definition "weakness" is a character's lack of certain tools, then every character in the game has weaknesses which is true, but doesnt tell us much. That's why we have stronger and weaker characters, even though they all have weaknesses. You have characters that can use their tools and strengths more easily and safely, or that can easily enforce a gameplan that is hard to beat. They also can easily destroy another character's gameplan. This is how a strong character looks like. On the other hand you have weaker characters that have to take considerable risks, usually gets less rewards or rely on situational circumstances to even start something... and they can all have versatile tools. Now, that's more like a real weakness.So in the end it doesnt matter whether Phonon has a meterless reversal and/or good mixup at many ranges, she's still strong... because her strengths more than make up for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zephyrion22 Report post Posted October 26, 2015 I believe you have misunderstood what @redsilversnake said. The lack of a tool doesnt automatically means it's a character's weakness, because it's usually an intentional part of the character's design to balance their strengths. Giving a character like Phonon a reliable DP and good mixup at many ranges isnt sensible considering she already exceeds in other areas. If by definition "weakness" is a character's lack of certain tools, then every character in the game has weaknesses which is true, but doesnt tell us much. That's why we have stronger and weaker characters, even though they all have weaknesses. You have characters that can use their tools and strengths more easily and safely, or that can easily enforce a gameplan that is hard to beat. They also can easily destroy another character's gameplan. This is how a strong character looks like. On the other hand you have weaker characters that have to take considerable risks, usually gets less rewards or rely on situational circumstances to even start something... and they can all have versatile tools. Now, that's more like a real weakness.So in the end it doesnt matter whether Phonon has a meterless reversal and/or good mixup at many ranges, she's still strong... because her strengths more than make up for it.Just to add my two cents on this Phonon assault j.A, even if it requires CS to confirm, is stll a perfectly valid mixup tool. Also we could say that Phonon's strengths almost completely negates her lack of mixups : her pressure options are just plentiful, and she can heavily punish any attempt to get out of it. Since you can't just stay here and eat the pressure for 90 seconds you have to do SOMETHING which more often than not ends up with you getting opened : the ways may be different but you get the same result ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted October 27, 2015 I would love nothing more than to see all that in action. I've heard the theory, but all I've seen in vids is either really lackluster play (e.g. adversesolutions's vid) or Phonon getting destroyed. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VicViper Report post Posted October 28, 2015 Akatsuki and Vatista being in the same tier amazes me considering that that matchup was basically unplayable for Akatsuki last version really really want to see how that matchup is now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackYakuzu94 Report post Posted October 28, 2015 Its probably still pretty shit for him, he just can actually do something against her once he gets in now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lelouch84 Report post Posted November 22, 2015 I'm so happy Vatista is good again. I think she could be the best in the game. Also Vatista should ruin Akatsuki. I don't care how he got buffed, she should still dominate him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted November 22, 2015 Vatista was always good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lelouch84 Report post Posted November 25, 2015 I never said she wasn't. I worded that poorly though. I mean I'm happy she's remaining good. Also, how the hell is Seth S tier, and why do people think Nanase is A tier? I think Phonon is the best character in the game also. She's crazy good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icekin Report post Posted November 26, 2015 Seth has had a laundry list of positive changes, from his mixup to his health to his orbs, etc. Seth was always a character that seemed really good in theory but had some problems holding him back. Those are now (mostly) gone. Nanase has been buffed in nearly every way: better hitboxes, faster moves, far safer recovery on some key moves (j.8C), better mixup options with Vorpal, literally every EX move improved, FF grd cost way reduced, and j2[C] is a game changer (huge hitbox, flash comes out before the move, + on shield block, etc) 214C hitstun buff also lets her combo off it at any range, making those confirms very painful. With vorpal, she can now TK jump cancel on block. She is pretty good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkTalon25 Report post Posted December 12, 2015 Oh shit, Akatsuki-sempai is top tier now!? I have no words. This is just amazing. I knew I made the right decision in maining him back in UNIEL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites