[CSE] A few problems with Hazama

[Mr.Ownage]

Hello everyone!

As someone who is playing BBCSE, because CP isn't on PC yet (maybe it won't be) and as someone who plays Hazama (not in tournaments though), I find some of his combo routes either hard or impossible( For me at least).

I've watched some combo videos and I just can't execute a few stuff that I've seen. My main problem is Jakou (623D) into his Rekkazan (632146C). I don't know if it's only possible in CP but I tried it in CSE's challenge mode and there it worked (after Houtenjin at least), but whenever I try another route into 623D> Rekkazan (such as beginning with a throw) it's either not getting counted as a combo or it's a blue heat. Is there some timing trick to it? Or is the proration low to do it?

Having a same problem with "picking up" after 6C, or 6A into 5C, both of these are getting me blue heats as well.

[Ourozama]

BBCPEX is coming to PC (could be on steam or not) http://shoryuken.com/2015/09/24/blazblue-chronophantasma-extend-heading-to-steam-in-january-2016/

Now about your issue. It's been ages since BBCSEX but I think it's probably the proration issue. How does your throw combo goes though? Throw > houtenjin > jakou > rekkazan? Though this should works since even though BBCP has a combo starter timer and proration limitation, he could do this even without the jakou>rekkazan buff in BBCP 1.1. 

Also what you mean by picking up with 6C? Give us an e.g. of the combo and we could help you. For your 6A > 5C, I'm guessing stuff > Houtenjin > 6A > 5C? Then it's an issue of height from hitting 6A. The higher you hit the opponent from 6A, the longer the untech time.

[Mr.Ownage]

BBCPEX coming to PC: I'm so happy now! I hope it will come very soon!

Combo : Yep, it's a simple throw > Houtenjin > backdash Jakou > Rekkazan, I don't know if it's my timing or something else, I get a blue heat or it isn't a combo at all.

I don't mean picking up WITH 6C,but rather AFTER 6C, such as after (S) Devouring Fang (fishing for a hit) > 6C. I dash in to 5C but sometimes I also get a blue heat.

Yep, for the 6A > 5C, I try it after Houtenjin, no luck with that either.

I appriciate your help though :)

[Putin]

Jakou into Mizuchi shouldn't work in any version of CS iirc, but I might be wrong. However, your go-to super finisher is Jakou > 63C > Mizuchi, since it gets you more damage anyway.

Jakou > Mizuchi definitely worked in vanilla CP, but they increased its untech time, in exchange for the opponent sliding away from you. In 1.1 they added the ability to cancel Jakou into the super so it's even easier.

Picking up after air hit 6C isn't really tight, but I could see it being a problem if you're too far away when you 6C, so when you dash in afterwards the first hit of 5C won't reach them. That's why you should do Zaneiga > 66C, sometimes you'll have to wait a bit in between though if you're picked them up too high up after Houtenjin or you'll go under them. Also, that's a 66C, not a 66 6C. This should get you the dashing momentum into 6C, this way Hazama will slide forward while doing the actual move.

[hipikachu]

Well first of all, I see the problem now. You didn't mention it in this thread, but you actually do 5C>Jakou. Thing about Jakou is that the recovery is fixed, but opponent untech time isn't. The higher you hit Jakou, the more followup time you have. That's why you can do it in Challenge Mode but not in training, because Challenge Mode makes you do it right after Hotenjin, which launches them incredibly high. If you want to use it in combos, you have to followup with something like 5C>2C>6D~A>4D~A>623D to get the appropriate Rekkazan followup height. For your throw combo, you're just landing Jakou too late. Remember that Jakou doesn't cancel into anything in CS, so any sort of followup is a link, not a cancel. You need to input the followup once you're absolutely sure that Hazama has recovered from Jakou.

As for your 6C followup issues, they're exactly the same as your Jakou issues. 6C doesn't cancel into dash, so you have to input the dash as early as possible once Hazama recovers from the 6C animation. You can probably start buffering the input once you see his feet touch the ground. Also, the dash DOES cancel into moves, so don't wait  for the dash to end before inputting 5C, input it as the dash is coming out so it looks like 665C.

Hope that helps ' ^' / If you have more questions, I'll be happy to answer them via Steam @ aozoraqua. Because I friggin suck at BBCP and cry about the good ol' CS days.

[Mr.Ownage]

Ahaa!

These two answers here are very helpful and pretty much answered anything! In fact, I've just watched a combo video (again) and I saw that his dummy was very high in the air when he did Jakou into Rekkazan. I never knew this was the problem all along!

While messing around in training mode, I've found a way to confirm after ˙S Devouring Fang > 6C, I didn't know I don't have to wait for the full dash animation to end, I didn't know I can cut it short, this was the problem here! However, I still can't do even 2B after S Dev. Fang > 6A, even though I can do it after 6C.

That pretty much answers anything here. The final thing that I wonder about : Does Rekkazan really screw up the proration? I tried RC-ing just before the final hit to do something flashy/cool and my combo (j.5C 5 times) ends faster than I can say "This combo is awesome!".

[hipikachu]

Well, any kind of multihit Distortion that doesn't launch usually serves as a combo ender for the minimum damage (damage that ignores proration), so it's not a much of a surprise that Mizuchi would nuke your proration during the multi-hit portion. If you HAVE to follow it up, rapid after the initial chain before the knife barrage.

And honestly speaking, I don't know if 214D~C(S) launches them high enough for 6A relaunch, because I never used that route myself, due to  it being unoptimal. However, do note that 2B and 5C have the same startup, so if you can 2B afterwards, you can 5C. But other than combo movie material, there really is no need to learn how to relaunch off that.

[Putin]

Zaneiga > 6A was really easy and optimal as hell in CP1.1, and kind of optimal in some occasions in CPEX, albeit harder.

You probably can do it in CS as well, but I don't recall it being optimal, going straight for 6C was the best nine times out of ten. Maybe 6A didn't have bonus proration back then? idk

It could be an ok filler until one learns how to TK loop though, but if it's giving you trouble it's probably not really worth your time

Mizuchi RC is only viable if you use it as a ghetto anti-projectile move, since it invuls through them. RC after the chain pull, then charge Zaneiga while they fly toward you and go for whatever into 4k afterwards

[hipikachu]

Pretty much this. TBH, I didn't even know it had bonus proration in CP '^ ' mumble mumble good ol CS days