Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

RurouniLoneWolf

[CF] Rachel Alucard Final Changelist

Recommended Posts

This is a thread to compile all the changes that made it into the final build. Post any new stuff or stuff that was in the loketest that you see in the final build here and I'll compile it in the OP. Link to the Loketest Changes and Discussion thread for reference


Normals:

  • 6A floats, even on ground hit and without wind. Float is low
  • CH 6B on ground hit crumples. Crumple time is somewhere between CT and CS1. Can convert into a combo up close. Can't seem convert into a combo at max range currently without wind (?)
  • CH 6B on air hit still blows back the opponent full screen and wall bounces
  • j.C no longer launches grounded opponents when under the affect of 5D's wind
  • j.2C is an overhead but a short starter

Drive:

  • Wind recovers quite fast during OD.
  • Wind regen is nerfed. 10 seconds to regen from 0 to 4. But, that's from 0 to 4. regen from 0 to 2 is much slower than in CPE. 7 seconds to go from 0 to 2 wind.
  • Wind can regen a bit in the air but it happens at a slower rate

Specials:

  • George shocks for a shorter amount of time
  • George has no cooldown
  • Pumpkin is gone ;.;
  • New Special - Ivy Blossom
  • Lotus has shorter reocvery, comes out faster. 
  • B and C Lobelia seem to have less recovery (?)

Ivy Blossom:

  • About a second after setting it, about 10 bats come out.
  • Ivy blossom has no hitbox, but just by being near the opponent they will take life away.  
  • You can use D to guide them towards the opponent, where the opponent will be unable to avoid the attack.
  • If you hit with ivy blossom, the small bats follow them about
  • If you use wind, bats spread out into a fan. 1 bat or 2 bats doesn't hurt very much. But if used in an oki position, it can hurt.
  • No effect from more than 1 Ivy
  • Ivy hurts quite a bit if all of the bats are on them
  • Bats won't kill
  • If you don't use wind, characters on top of Ivy (the cross thing), probably continually take 1 damage. (?)
  • Overall duration is short - maybe 2/3 of Pumpkin
  • Opponents touched by the bats take 100 damage regardless of guard. Instantly.

Distortions:

  • Tempest Dahlia's Trajectory changed. It still comes out from the back of Rachel forward but it has a parabolic drop so that the projectiles drop in front of her. When done in the air, it arcs sharply downwards
  • Wind regens quickly during Tempest Dahlia.

Misc:

  • 5CC > Tempest Dahlia no longer connects 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard anything about a trajectory change to TD in the last loketest and the current trajectory was shown off in the first gameplay trailer so I'm keeping it in the OP for now . If it got reverted, I'll just remove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched the stream and Ueda Kana played Rachel. Here are a few things from what I saw.

- George shock time is less I'm sure.
- Ivy stayed out on screen when Hibiki hit with his DD? Not sure if it stays out on hit but doubt it. (Would like to confirm at a later point)
- Lobelia C felt like it travelled slower (not sure if that's just me or not so not 100% sure)

Got a screenshot of Ivy out on screen and bats out. https://twitter.com/_Gamester_/status/666946662816960512 
Sorry I could not salvage much info. Ueda was playing Stylish Rachel as well but Rachel nonetheless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did George have a cooldown?

 

Ivy blossom looks cool. Nice but not very useful. Not seeing how she benefits from it or how it syncs with her strategy. If she is a mixup character why does she even need slow poison.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@49:00ish ...I might have forgotten because I hardly use Lotus to begin with in CP but were travelling Lotus always capable of being pushed forward by Rachel's wind? Because if they didn't, they do now! ^,^

ugh, the passive DoT on Ivy doesn't look very noteworthy right now. Maybe, it'll look better in extended blockstrings.

Also, @Soniti seems to be right about the trajectory of TD being reverted. Removing it from OP

3 hours ago, gamester said:

Just watched the stream and Ueda Kana played Rachel. Here are a few things from what I saw.

- George shock time is less I'm sure.
-

Yeah. Definitely looks like it. That's definitely going to affect its ability to lockdown an opponent long enough to cover an approach to start pressure in some of our old tactics.

1 hour ago, muerto said:

http://www.twitch.tv/baf0/v/26405595 what interest us is at min 48.

Yes george dint have a cooldown on whiff or hit and 4b lost smp AA6A 5b sjc jB JC 2D jC land 6A 4B 66 6A 4B 5CC i a thing

TD trajectory is also weird as it all bounce around the screen

I don't think the issue is that the trajectory is weird. It's more like the Dahlia's projectiles have collision with each other ??? It's really weird.

EDIT: Actually, it's more like the way they bounce is very odd.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the stream I'm watching ( http://www.twitch.tv/fantasistaokayama/mobile ): 

5CD > 6C > j.C - j.C no longer floats

BBL > level 3 j.2C is back? 

5CC > TD no longer connects

Lotus seems to come out/travel faster

TD arcs sharply downward when performed in the air

6A5D > 4B no longer connects

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Venussail91 said:

 

BBL > level 3 j.2C is back? 

O.O If this is true, I'm 1 step closer to my dream of the return of practical level 3 j.2C combos \o/

Also, now that I've gotten to see more of the new Tempest Dahlia, I can see it really is a trajectory thing like @muerto said. It comes out from in back of her to forward like it used to but it drops in an arc so that they land about right in front of her when she does it from the ground. Not sure what to think about it right now. Maybe it can extend our blockstrings in certain situations? It could be useful in situations where we're low on wind. But it needs more testing. It feels like it's too slow to do that at first glance. Need to see more of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone seen any meterless+windless corner followups to 5cc yet? Feels so bad to have to spend crush trigger or 1 wind to get a corner combo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Soniti said:

Has anyone seen any meterless+windless corner followups to 5cc yet? Feels so bad to have to spend crush trigger or 1 wind to get a corner combo.

At around 48:15ish in the twitch archive from early yesterday, you can see the Rachel player do 2B > 5CDC > 6C (1) > j.C > delay j.236C > 5B > 6A > 4B > 5CC > 2D > 3C > 214B oki. Not sure if there's any special conditions and the ender did require wind. Maybe with experimentation they can find a better ender though.

EDIT: Worth noting he spent a wind during 5CC to stay close though. I edited the combo to show the full inputs. I wonder if we can find a way around that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The end of the Day 1 Rachel CMV highlights some of Rachel's changes nicely

Wind Regen - Pretty much lines up with what we've heard in loc test
https://youtu.be/AqUQRetM7qI?t=125

Lotus - Faster Startup and Recovery
https://youtu.be/AqUQRetM7qI?t=136

Ivy Blossom's Passive Poison
https://youtu.be/AqUQRetM7qI?t=163

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got back from Round 1 and mostly played Rachel (and a little Carl).  Mostly spent time in arcade mode since I got more playtime that way.  6B CH only does the wallbounce on air hit.  Ground hit on CH, it does that crumple.  Not as amazing as CT but not awful like CS1.  I could dash up and 2B after it in most cases.  Max range you're going to have to use wind to convert off of it from the looks of it.  Unfortunately I forgot to see if I could do the corner BnB without wind at pointblank, but I'll try it out tomorrow.  Damage is actually not too bad, especially in the corner.  Midscreen, I didn't find a good consistent damaging bnb.  Tried messing with 6A combos, but I'll need more time.  Was trying to see what I could do with level 2 and level 3 j2c.  I want to see the latter especially for BBL combos.  See if I can do a life drain midcombo or something.

No real george cool down is neat, but the lessened shock time is annoying.  Not having pumpkin definitely sucks.  I feel like I better be on point with my lobelias more.  Also hoping for opponents to let me get away with fork into j.B3D or something.  I feel like I should try to mess with lotus more.  Still using it as that somewhat zoning tool instead of finding routes with it.

She's definitely not someone I'd say that's strong right away on first impressions, but I wouldn't say she's wheelchair status.  I'll go back tomorrow to test more stuff.  I guess give me some ideas to try out if you guys have any.  I'm going on a busier hour, so I might not be able to leisurely test whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just noticed something watching that combo video @gamester posted.  Rachel did j.C > j.[C] > j.C and didn't need to use 2D to combo the opponent down.  Does this mean j.C's untech time has been increased?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure it's because of a change in Gravity. Untech time should be the same.

 

dang I wished that video had shown how wind affects ivy blossom.

 

after seeing lotus in action I'm thinking it's supposed to be the new inferior pumpkin. Recovery is astonishingly fast. Pretty sure it's going to find use in oki eventually, and by extension, longer pressure strings. It is omni directional like pumpkin but has potential to cover more space for less wind, with a reward on hit or block. The fact that it doesn't cancel air options until landing on air use is a very good change.

 

although she definitely looks worse in this version, she seems to have ways to enforce her strategy still, and with good effect. And with lotus being among one of her more priority moves now, corner carry potential could skyrocket. She still might have dp safe setups. I'm just really wondering about blossom because right now it just makes no sense in her Arsenal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BBL dmg with and without poles?

Combos after it (with fc j.2c or frog)?

General j.2c properties (is is it really overhead again, dmg off it, maybe even j.c gatling?)

 

Some ideas off the top of my head. I want to believe in her but she looks hella boring so far without pumpkin and crippled george : (

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
after seeing lotus in action I'm thinking it's supposed to be the new inferior pumpkin. Recovery is astonishingly fast. Pretty sure it's going to find use in oki eventually, and by extension, longer pressure strings. It is omni directional like pumpkin but has potential to cover more space for less wind, with a reward on hit or block. The fact that it doesn't cancel air options until landing on air use is a very good change.

I thought the same thing. Seems like you gotta be even more mindful of your pole placements now, summoning the bats almost felt like summoning a pumpkin and having it ready to use on the spot.

236c also seems to recover a lot faster, you can actually start running behind it while it's still flying towards the opponent. With lotus' new activation speed/recovery, this could allow maintaining some sort of advantage after hitting a midscreen 5cc or something.

As for the way j.c/j.[c] works now, and 6a > 4b seemingly being able to connect from any height, we might be able to consistently convert most ground to air/air to air hits into a ground combo without any wind at all... That would be huge.

Now I just wanna know if j.2c really is an overhead...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm back, tried Rachel some more.  Can confirm that j2c is a high.  Can't jump cancel it or gatling into jC. 

 

Whats the damage off of cat chair ch starter into a simple air combo in Extend?  I seemed to get 2.4k without really any effort.  Didn't check the damage from just the cat chair ch though, only after the combo.

Also no pumpkin against characters still suck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing about windless combos this time around that I don't like is that they seem to be almost as necessary as 1 wind combos in cpex, as opposed to an advantageous perk. She might get 1 wind back after a windless combo now, and of course using 1 wind in the combo in that case means that she wouldn't really be gaining a net advantage.

 

sure they will get the job done, but for less reward that a windless combo would give in cpex, basically. The most optimal combos and bbl combos will likely give her the edge, as well as good neutral play (she doesn't seem to need wind in neutral as much as she did in any other game, that's sort of ok? I mean, she's still pretty reliant on it in general.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2015, 3:09:28, TD said:

after seeing lotus in action I'm thinking it's supposed to be the new inferior pumpkin. Recovery is astonishingly fast. Pretty sure it's going to find use in oki eventually, and by extension, longer pressure strings. It is omni directional like pumpkin but has potential to cover more space for less wind, with a reward on hit or block. The fact that it doesn't cancel air options until landing on air use is a very good change.

New lotus is amazing. imo it's better to not even think of it as pumpkin. I too thought the same thing, but now that I had some time with the game, I think the effectiveness of lotus in BBCF is not inferior.... But rather... it is worse, equal, or better than pumpkin given the situation. So there may be times in a match where lotus won't be very good (especially if you have no lobelias set), and others where you just feel like you own everything on the stage, and there's nothing your opponent can do about it.  And yeah, you can use lotus as oki (and pressure).

Also about ivy blossom. It's very good in the corner (against non-DP characters). Just set it for oki instead of using lotus or frog, and watch your opponent lose like 600-800 damage while you're doing a simple blockstring. You can also do it during combos, like 5B > 5CC > 9D > 214B > 5B > etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have yet to see any windless & meterless corner combos :(. All of them involve 5cdc or 5cc>CT.

I'm going to Round 1 tonight, anything have specific things they want tested?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmmm, one thing you could try doing if you're searching for meterless corner combos tonight is experimenting with replacing the old Pumpkin oki with lotus oki. If you open them up with a lotus attached, maybe you can do something like 5C > Sword Iris > stuff to get around using wind while getting similar benefits of Pumpkin oki. You can also try experimenting with George oki since it's always an option now that the cooldown is gone. Can't think of anything else to test to get around it. Maybe try 5B > 6A > stuff from opening them up with an IOH?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seconded on seeing if you can get 5B 6A routes after opening someone up.  Also I'm curious on damage from CH cat chair when the random chances arises.  No one really answered my question about it earlier, but I thought it did more damage with it as a starter in CF (my memory on Extend is fuzzy since I played that the least).

And I guess see if you can come up with any ideas with ivy blossom midcombo?  I wanted to see if I could do something with it with BBL combos and level 3 j2C, but, it was too busy.

Also do the bats from Ivy Blossom disappear when you're in blockstun?

Edit: Actually how long can they not tech if you do corner 5CC 8D?  Can you do 5CC 8D Ivy and pick up with 5B j.C j236C?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Rurouni said, if you could experiment a bit with lotus oki that would be nice.

And that we have j.2c overhead again, I'm interested in seeing her new damage output potential. Pretty sure you could confirm into a windless combo if you have a pole or lotus on them.

Man I'm a bit jealous lol, I wanna try her too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×