Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Axiomatic]

46 minutes ago, VermilionBird said:

Terumi gave Saya the Yukianesa the same time he destroyed her mind. Can't remember exactly how.

Well if we're talking about how Terumi hands out mental trauma like lolipops, he probably did something with his Ouroboros since it can devour memories or some shit. Like, what if he just let it eat EVERY happy memory she had? Since her life was very sheltered living almost exclusively at the Church, then the only things that could have been left are the bad memories. Again, that is making a conjecture when we do not know all the rules to using Ouroboros (like does it have a "memories devoured stock" like in battle and Terumi has to wait for it to replenish?). Thanks for pointing that out though. 

 

Thanks for reminding me about the instability of Saya and Izanami's fusion, MaximusMurkimus. I admittedly forgot about it.

[GunBlazer]

Wouldn't Ouroboros actually make you go insane instead of eating your memories? IIRC Terumi is the memory eater.

[Leiopelma]

22 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

It's this one.

That one is Ragna's. Naoto has one in the same location as Ragna's own. And Izanami also bears the mark on the white portion of her dress, though you only see it in the group shot rather than on her portrait. Curiously, hers is the only one that's on clothing as both Ragna and Naoto's seem to have been branded on their skin.

Mai actually also has that symbol on her clothing. You can see it on the glove of the outfit Mori drew her in after she graduates from the academy:

Spoiler

13 hours ago, Lorde-Zero said:

It could be possible with Muchorin's power or some Kokonoe magic/science thing. As for the Act 3 boss, Amaterasu could work.

In CP they were saying that they need Amaterasu to bring everyone back to life and it's been implied that without Amaterasu the world would be dead. I don't see how they could suddenly turn Amaterasu into the villain. All it seems to be trying to do is to preserve the world.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

1 minute ago, Leiopelma said:

In CP they were saying that they need Amaterasu to bring everyone back to life and it's been implied that without Amaterasu the world would be dead. I don't see how they could suddenly turn Amaterasu into the villain. All it seems to be trying to do is to preserve the world.

Well, not necessary a villain, but something like "upset" about this whole mess. Geez, Amaterasu could even try to remake this whole world. That is not being a villain, IT IS being a hero... kinda...

[MaximusMurkimus]

One thing I'm lost about is that wouldn't having the whole world rebuilt be in fact a good thing? Sure, Terumi and Relius wants to create a world with them as rulers and Izanami wants to be forever alone in hers, but surely the situation would be much more preferable to the current one, where a majority of the population have been turned into suitor goop thanks to the Embryo and the rest are in a less than ideal position? 

Rachel claims to be fond of this world and that's why she's protecting it via the Tsunami Unit, but I feel there's some other ulterior motive going on for her.

Unless it cancels out the existence of the entire cast, of course. That wouldn't be preferable. 

[VermilionBird]

Ultimately, this all depends on your view of what's good or evil.

Izanami, and Relius... they're not wrong. Relius calls the world "insane" as it can only be rebuilt from the finite memories of Amaterasu's wielder. That the wheel of Fate comes full circle and things are forced to repeat. Izanami is only bringing about what is natural - death. She isn't wrong for wanting to do this, she's only turning the world back into the state it once was. Nine has witnessed how cruel this world is, and wants it returned to normality for Celica's sake.

Rachel wants to protect the current world even though it's only a dream. She's also right because it's a world in it's own right, and it's one she's fond of. 

Who's right and wrong is up for the players to decide. Neither party's goals for Amaterasu are necessarily good or bad.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

8 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

One thing I'm lost about is that wouldn't having the whole world rebuilt be in fact a good thing? Sure, Terumi and Relius wants to create a world with them as rulers and Izanami wants to be forever alone in hers, but surely the situation would be much more preferable to the current one, where a majority of the population have been turned into suitor goop thanks to the Embryo and the rest are in a less than ideal position? 

Exactly that's why she would want to rebuild the world. It is too messy! And true that Terumi and Relius want to create a new world, but it is for another bloodshed (at least Terumi). This is a code red case where it seems nothing can save the world unless reset it, I know it sound rough, but yourself said the situation, and, in my opinion, it is beyond a single repair to maintain order before they try again.

12 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Rachel claims to be fond of this world and that's why she's protecting it via the Tsunami Unit, but I feel there's some other ulterior motive going on for her.

I agree with you about this, even knowing what can happens if the unit is destroyed, she overprotects it.

[MaximusMurkimus]

6 minutes ago, VermilionBird said:

Ultimately, this all depends on your view of what's good or evil.

Izanami, and Relius... they're not wrong. Relius calls the world "insane" as it can only be rebuilt from the finite memories of Amaterasu's wielder. That the wheel of Fate comes full circle and things are forced to repeat. Izanami is only bringing about what is natural - death. She isn't wrong for wanting to do this, she's only turning the world back into the state it once was. Nine has witnessed how cruel this world is, and wants it returned to normality for Celica's sake.

Rachel wants to protect the current world even though it's only a dream. She's also right because it's a world in it's own right, and it's one she's fond of. 

Who's right and wrong is up for the players to decide. Neither party's goals for Amaterasu are necessarily good or bad.

I don't think it's quite as ambiguous as that; I remember as early as CS Izanami wanted the A. Unit out of the picture so that people would stop getting revived every time shit gets real. That just makes sense; it's the natural order of things. Maybe it would keep Terumi dead, but at the same time Ragna wouldn't have made it past CT, so it's a double-edged sword.

Relius and Terumi though, their actions are a little more blatantly evil. Both want to rule in a new world built in their design, which of course would conflict with each other and Izanami, so it was only a matter of time before they ended up opposing each other.

For someone who has seen how awful the world can be, you would think Rachel would be in agreement with them with rebuilding. Who knows, maybe she was on their side at first, then something convinced her otherwise. I wonder if this protection of the unit put her in conflict with any of the hero characters this time around.

[Leiopelma]

43 minutes ago, VermilionBird said:

Ultimately, this all depends on your view of what's good or evil.

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. I think an "artificial" world where people are still alive is preferable than a "natural" dead one. As a result I can't agree that Izanami's actions could be seen as good. As for Relius, he's a complete psychopath. He literally sees people as nothing but materials for his experiments and has no compunctions about inflicting both physical and mental torture on them in order to craft them into tools for his use. His sole goal is to create the perfect doll so I can see nothing good coming from a world where he's in charge. Same with Terumi. He's a sadistic monster that only appears to take pleasure in torturing others. Any world he created would be a living hell. Again I don't see how either of those characters could be seen as being morally ambiguous.

Nine is a bit more ambiguous simply because we don't know much about what she wants. But she's definitely not nice and the only person she actually cares about is her sister. The rest of the world, including her daughter and husband, can all go to hell. As a result I don't think she could be trusted with overseeing the world. From all of those characters only Rachel appears to have a general concern for humanity and could be seen as good.

[MaximusMurkimus]

Was replaying CP's story and something interesting I noticed at the beginning was that Rachel didn't doubt that Ragna could beat the Imperator, only that he might not have the resolve to do it if it means killing Saya. 

Rachel knows exactly who the Imperator actually was, so why didn't she bother to tell Ragna, who still thought Saya was the one behind everything and was still confused as result? maybe he would've went into "No Noel You Mustn't" mode like he did at the end of CS to stop Mu-12. The same oversight is what had Noel pursuing Hazama during CS, which led to her becoming Mu-12 in the first place.

Does Rachel bluff about how much she actually knows, is there some ulterior motive that she's keeping away from Ragna, or does Mori have a load of plot holes in his backyard? Maybe all three?

 

[Calamitus]

In this interview, Mori says that Naoto has the most shocking scenario in Act 2.

[MaximusMurkimus]

All that emphasis on arcade and BlazBlue being in them from that interview makes me think we won't see a console release this year :/

Damnit Mori, you better not hold off on Act 3.

[Toxin45]

So Naoto's arcade in act 2 is the most shocking? what about the others?

[MaximusMurkimus]

37 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

So Naoto's arcade in act 2 is the most shocking? what about the others?

Guessing no one important gets killed off or anything, then. Maybe IzanamI would be recognized by Naoto as Saya Terumi or something that would screw with the otherwise already unstable BlazBlue continuity.

[Poultrygeist]

On 1/21/2016 at 3:50 PM, Leiopelma said:

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. I think an "artificial" world where people are still alive is preferable than a "natural" dead one. As a result I can't agree that Izanami's actions could be seen as good. As for Relius, he's a complete psychopath. He literally sees people as nothing but materials for his experiments and has no compunctions about inflicting both physical and mental torture on them in order to craft them into tools for his use. His sole goal is to create the perfect doll so I can see nothing good coming from a world where he's in charge. Same with Terumi. He's a sadistic monster that only appears to take pleasure in torturing others. Any world he created would be a living hell. Again I don't see how either of those characters could be seen as being morally ambiguous.

Nine is a bit more ambiguous simply because we don't know much about what she wants. But she's definitely not nice and the only person she actually cares about is her sister. The rest of the world, including her daughter and husband, can all go to hell. As a result I don't think she could be trusted with overseeing the world. From all of those characters only Rachel appears to have a general concern for humanity and could be seen as good.

If Relius had won in CP, literally none of the conflict and tragedies afterwards would have happened.  Think about that for a second.

This is a major problem with Japanese storytelling as a whole, they write characters in shades of black and white and not realizing that you can interpret a character in more than one way.  Like how they expect you to sympathize with Ragna or Bang even though nothing about them being good people is objective.

[Master Of Chaos]

Quote

If Relius had won in CP, literally none of the conflict and tragedies afterwards would have happened.  Think about that for a second.

Relius was part of the plan to turn the entire world's population into sludge, remember? 

[Cerotech Omega]

2 hours ago, Poultrygeist said:

If Relius had won in CP, literally none of the conflict and tragedies afterwards would have happened.  Think about that for a second.

This is a major problem with Japanese storytelling as a whole, they write characters in shades of black and white and not realizing that you can interpret a character in more than one way.  Like how they expect you to sympathize with Ragna or Bang even though nothing about them being good people is objective.

Master of Chaos has a point. The only reason none of the conflict and tragedies would happen is because everyone would be dead. Part of the whole reason folks were trying to stop Doomsday is to save the people who weren't already killed by it, and there's the question of how Relius would contain Izanami anyway.

Besides, there's still the question of what "perfect doll" entails. Yes, Relius may be tired of Amaterasu's interference like everyone else, but one has to wonder how bad things would be if he wasn't part of the problem to begin with (keep in mind he was helping Terumi and Shuichiro destroy Amaterasu in the first place). I get that much of what he does is to satiate his scientific curiosity, but it's the methods that folks object to. And you know the worst part? If I had no choice but to support a villain in this series, I'd pick him in a heartbeat because the other options, beyond exception, suck even worse.

[Lorde-Zero]

On 1/21/2016 at 7:09 PM, VermilionBird said:

Izanami, and Relius... they're not wrong. Relius calls the world "insane" as it can only be rebuilt from the finite memories of Amaterasu's wielder. That the wheel of Fate comes full circle and things are forced to repeat. Izanami is only bringing about what is natural - death. She isn't wrong for wanting to do this, she's only turning the world back into the state it once was. Nine has witnessed how cruel this world is, and wants it returned to normality for Celica's sake.

Rachel wants to protect the current world even though it's only a dream. She's also right because it's a world in it's own right, and it's one she's fond of. 

Who's right and wrong is up for the players to decide. Neither party's goals for Amaterasu are necessarily good or bad.

And Ragna is right in the middle of the whole mess.

5 hours ago, Cerotech Omega said:

Besides, there's still the question of what "perfect doll" entails. Yes, Relius may be tired of Amaterasu's interference like everyone else, but one has to wonder how bad things would be if he wasn't part of the problem to begin with (keep in mind he was helping Terumi and Shuichiro destroy Amaterasu in the first place). 

Yes, he has yet to give details on his whole "perfect doll" thing. Amaterasu is probably hiding something big.

[churchblue]

I wonder how shocking Naoto's scenario in Act 2. Maybe he finds out Raquel in in Amaterasu. Or he was the one that created the Blazblue world. Too many theories.

[Poultrygeist]

13 hours ago, Master Of Chaos said:

Relius was part of the plan to turn the entire world's population into sludge, remember? 

Remember that Relius and Terumi were manipulating not only each other but also the Imperator (or so they thought) and all had different goals.  Relius is by no means a nice or well intentioned guy, but his were by far the least malevolent of the three, and his victory would have been the best case scenario.  The other two are fucking crazy genocidal maniacs (or I guess in Izanami's case that's just what she is as a force of nature) while Relius just has a strange messiah complex.  You could also make the case that without Amaterasu and Izanami the world would be much better.  

[DeadmanJV2]

Back to Naoto's Act 2 for a second. I feel like we're going to get some details into the connection between Bloodedge Experience and the main series. I'm sure some of it will be saved for Act 3 and/or console, but we might get more detail as to why Naoto being there threatens Ragna's existence. Alternatively we might get more info as to the relationship between Rachel and Raquel or Izanami and Saya Terumi. We might even get some detail as to what has happened to Raquel. I'd also like some details as to Terumi's true identity but I definitely don't expect that yet (if ever). The only other thing I could think of is that we might finally get some more details as to what Amaterasu's deal is. (Crazy plot twist: Raquel is in Amaterasu! No I'm not actually predicting that.)

Either way, I'm looking forward to Naoto flipping out when he meets Izanami.

[Volt]

Act II - Nightmare Memory.

Am I the only one who thinks it will explain what happened in the Time Skip between CPEX and Act I?

Think about it, those pictures of Tager surrounded by dead bodies and more importantly, Carl finding Incomplete Nirvana picture show that at least some flashbacks will be present.

Just as important is the official announcement, which mentioned the characters noting something off around them, probably by Nine helping them remember what happened and telling them to beat Izanami.

Mori saying that Naoto's Act II story is the most shocking one also makes perfect sense, since we don't know what the hell happened after BE 2 and how Naoto found out what is a Murakumo unit.

Also, in the link to that interview, Act II shows an event between Trinity (With Jin) and Platinum. Which means we'll at least find out what happened with Trinity.

[Chaoschao222]

9 minutes ago, Volt said:

Am I the only one who thinks it will explain what happened in the Time Skip between CPEX and Act I?

Think about it, those pictures of Tager surrounded by dead bodies and more importantly, Carl finding Incomplete Nirvana picture show that at least some flashbacks will be present.

Or, given that Tager was beside Noel and Kagura's body, Nightmare Memory consists of. Nightmares.

[Poultrygeist]

I'm actually really curious about that.  I think that Ada in that Carl CG looks less like she's built "built" and more like she's in a state of disrepair, so I kind of feel like it's going to be about the characters' fears rather than past traumas.

[Luminos564]

3 hours ago, Chaoschao222 said:

Or, given that Tager was beside Noel and Kagura's body, Nightmare Memory consists of. Nightmares.

Speaking of nightmares, Mu-12 in CS refers to Ragna as the "World's Nightmare", perhaps indicating that Ragna goes full Beast mode (or that super-duper Lex Luthor evil that's vaguely been foreshadowed by Rachel) so there's that. For reference, Mu-12 refers to Hazama/Terumi as the "True Evil", Haku-men as the "Ancient Hero", Jin's hilariously the "False Hero" as well as "Endbringer" with finally Rachel topped off as "Observer". But take from this what you will.