Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Poultrygeist]

3 minutes ago, zephyr07 said:

There's someone above Izanami, someone who needs to be defeated or the world will still be warped.

"The one at the centrw of it all... that person is..."

Fade to black.

OH LAWD.

THE PLOT THICKENS.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

4 minutes ago, zephyr07 said:

"The one at the centrw of it all... that person is..."

Fade to black.

Zeus Izanagi! Calling it right the f**k now!

[Sourenga]

Hibiki story summary is up, but no one translating... Here we go.

TAGER
Hibiki came to ask Kokonoe why she ordered Bullet to fight with him (during Act1) but Tager stands in his way. 
After the battle, it's explained that Bullet was delaying Hibiki so that they wouldn't learn what was happening. Hibiki seems to possess all of his memories. Kokonoe asks Hibiki if he also has a wish that needs to be fulfilled. Hibiki denies saying "After all, I've always been empty"
TSUBAKI
Tsubaki stands in Hibiki's way as Hazama had relayed her the Imperator's "direct order" to capture Kagura and Hibiki.
AZRAEL
Azrael challenges Hibiki
IZANAMI
Izanami shows a vision to Hibiki and tells that if this keeps up Kagura will be executed by the people who will eventually rebel against the N.O.L.
If Hibiki truly wishes to avoid that, he needs to kill Noel.


EDIT:

Bullet story is out as well.

TSUBAKI
Bullet investigates Azure with blackmail-like ways. Tsubaki says NoL can't allow this pass.
TAOKAKA
Bullet smells like meat and Tao gets like "Hand over some meat!" Bullet had just eaten, but has nothing to give to Tao.
KOKONOE
Kokonoe asks how long has Bullet served under her in the Sector Seven. Bullet answers about eight years or so. 
Kokonoe starts to talk about what Bullet had done in the real world and Bullet is confused.
IZANAMI
Bullet finally realizes that the world until now has been nothing but sham. 
She's also becomes certain that Tager really is the Captain.
Izanami taunts her that the world has been repeating itself for an eternity because of the highest of all Observers.
Bullet gets angry and asks who that person is, and Izanami answers "Their name is----"

[Poultrygeist]

I'm really REALLY excited to see who the one above Izanami is.  Of course Izanagi is an obvious guess or some other mythological being.  Or it could be a character from one of the side materials.  Or maybe Ragna in full dark mode or whatever.

But I thin kwe all know the most likely outcome.

[oh no, he said]

I feel like Izanagi would be a little too obvious, or at the very least boring. Thematically speaking, Rachel has already kinda put herself in a role similar to that of Izanagi in myth anyways. Perhaps one of the Kotoamatsukami? Amenominakanushi would kinda make sense, as their role in shinto myth is essentially being the god from which all creation originates.

[Sourenga]

Kagura's ending was just on the stream and it was like "Kagura, can you kill the source of this world, Noel Vermillion? As long as she exists, no one can change the world. The future you wish will never come if she keeps on existing."

[zephyr07]

Based on the other characters's endings, currently the one above izanami seems to be the real Noel.

 

[oh no, he said]

1 minute ago, zephyr07 said:

Based on the other characters's endings, currently the one above izanami seems to be the real Noel.

 

On one hand that would make sense given what other arcades seem to leading the plot to, but on the other, why fade to black in Jin's arcade mode when he's about to say it while with Hibiki and Kagura she straight up just tells them to murder Noel? Might be a red herring. Aside from that, it's probably just be a result of differences in how you guys are translating things, but in Jin's arcade it says someone must be defeated, which implies resistance, while in the others it says Noel must be killed, and given that little glimpse of her, she doesn't actually look like she can fight back at the moment if someone wanted to shiv her.

[Zedar90]

Makoto
3 Tsubaki
6 Amane
7 Relius
8 Izanami

Makoto tries to go and kill Izanami by herself, and Tsubaki comes to try to stop Makoto who the NOL have put a bounty on. After the battle, Tsubaki let's Makoto run off.

Amane tries to talk with Makoto, and he seems to act like he knows where Noel is.
After the battle, Amane says he doesn't know, or rather he won't interfere. He only talked with her to give her alternatives.

Makoto senses some presences. Relius appear and Makoto starts to tremble so much she can't stand up. Relius attacks her so that he can see her soul.
After battle, Relius says while it's weak there are power of order.

Izanami tells Makoto that her wish can't be granted. And after the battle Izanami says that Makoto's wish is a paradox. That the NOL, Black Beast and Izanami's vessel all exist for Noel's sake. That Noel is the cause for everything and that Makoto's wish is a paradox since for her wish to be fulfilled Noel has to be defeated.

[syzm]

Surprised that anyone is... surprised... that Noel is a clone. We've known she's #12 since Calamity Trigger's opening cut scene.

I had always assumed that Mikado was the original, but I guess not.

[Luminos564]

6 hours ago, Sourenga said:

In Izanami's arcade mode, Rachel is apparently always the final boss.

After that the two of talk something while the preview pictures for Act 3 are shown:

- Nine has gained all the Nox Nyctores.
- Composed looking Amane
- Valkenhayn grabbing Amane's throat
- Carl wondering about something
- Noel and Jin, then Kagura who's protecting Noel
- Izayoi on her knee and Hakumen reaching his hand to her
- Terumi and Hzama grinning together
- Lambda fighting with Relius
- Kokonoe in the middle of turning Tager from human into a cyborg
- A picture of Ragna's back

So let's go over these in order:

-So Nine got them all, huh? Looks like if you want to complete a fetch quest, you can't exactly assign it to a murderous Nu-13. I'd imagine this means she was able to top Haku-men after their fight because I doubt he'd give her his willingly.
-And most likely looking faaaaaaaaabulous. Seriously Amane, just who and what are you?
-Valkenhayn does not appreciate Amane's style of dance (he's a Waltz man himself). Seriously Valkenhayn, what's your involvement in all this?
-"Wondering about something"? Like what, how his hat hasn't crushed his spine in half?
-Makes sense that Kagura would protect a pretty, young thing like Noel. But from the way you put it Sourenga, I took it as it was Jin that attacks Noel and then Kagura protects her. If so, down Jin. Bad boy! You're supposed to be past this.
-Haku-men has a certain way with the ladies, he does. Figuratively blind and misguided ones are his specialty.
-Double the grins, for double the amount of dead puppies. As if they weren't enough of a problem when merged, but now there's two of them. Someone go and fire Haku-men. His demon slaying license has been revoked.
-Yay Lamb-chops...fighting Relius...the man that created her...who has a nasty penchant for "scientific horrors" .
-Oh hey, there is that plot thread about how he went from a human, to a Red Ogre and then to a Red Ogre Cyborg that ASW never showed. Goody.
-Ragna has had so many shots of his back but damn does he make them look good. But why do I get the feeling this one will be more somber than the others...

6 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Ragna
Ragna's memories are unstable but he only doesn't forget to defeat Izanami.
Rachel tells Ragna that he will only become a good toy for Izanami, but Ragna says he as to do it anyway.
Ragna notices that Rachel have become weaker, and suddenly Azrael barges in. Ranga makes Rachel retreat and Ragna fights Azrael. After the fight, Azrael stops and says that he looks forward to eat Ragna when he have become a god.
Ragna arrives to Izanami, fights her, kills her and is shown the existence he should defeat if he wants to end it(amaterasu, girl with tubs, "Noel" whatever she should be called).

Oh no. No no no no no. Ragna...buddy, whatever you do, do not turn your sword to the girl inside Amaterasu. Or Noel, for that matter. All that means is you'll go down like a certain individual whose final plan left many a viewer debating over the outcome. Don't go down that route.

[KanaNoir]

I'm laughing at the irony that the cast is being directed towards the goal of destroying Amaterasu. 

And isn't there some kind of Phenomena Intervention when Ragna stabs Izanami ?

[kylehyde]

Just curious, I know that Ragna isn't an entitled but was he offered a piece of the Azure like everyone else?

[Vulcan422]

Nope. He just straight-up stabs Izanami.

[kylehyde]

I see, it would of been nice to see what kind of dream turned nightmare Ragna would of had.

@Zedar90 I know I might be asking a bit too much, but if all possible could you tell me a little more of what Ragna and Rachel's conversation was about in Ragna's Act 2?

[Xionic]

I'm just so confused with this whole 'fake noel, real noel' thing, like, I really hope they explain that soon enough. Is she Amaterasu? Who is the Noel we have now? Or do they just mean 'mu-12' instead of 'noel'?

[Zedar90]

The one is inside Amaterasu seems to be Noel, from when it's not known(past? Future?).
I see no reason to say that either is a fake or not, it could mean that Noel will have to get into the unit later, or it's a situation similar to Jin and Hakumen.

[Zedar90]

Image of Es in Naoto's arcade

source

[Chaoschao222]

Well then, that clears up any lingering misunderstanding whether or not the True Noel was the Es image or not.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Yep, Nine will be the final boss, since she got all the Nox Nyctores. However, since Izanami body was just a doll, according to Relius, well... Double the trouble to Double the Bloodshed!

[syzm]

1 hour ago, Xionic said:

I'm just so confused with this whole 'fake noel, real noel' thing, like, I really hope they explain that soon enough. Is she Amaterasu? Who is the Noel we have now? Or do they just mean 'mu-12' instead of 'noel'?

Noel is the 12th derivation of... whoever the original is inside Amaterasu (Es?).

In the opening of CT the laboratory she was in got blown up and she was left among the ruins. I would assume the lab being blown up interrupted her test tube development and she somehow ended up the way she is now as opposed to ending up like Lambda/Nu.

Just like the others, Noel is "fake" insofar as she is a replica of some original Jesus figure. Insert poorly handled ideas of the human rights/personal identity of clones here; i.e.: she's the "real" Noel because that's what she ended up becoming, even if she is just a copy.

[Zedar90]

1 hour ago, kylehyde said:

I see, it would of been nice to see what kind of dream turned nightmare Ragna would of had.

@Zedar90 I know I might be asking a bit too much, but if all possible could you tell me a little more of what Ragna and Rachel's conversation was about in Ragna's Act 2?

Am tired, took a short while...

Ragna: Oi. You who hides there, do you have any businesses with me?
Rachel: Those vulgar manners, you're the same as always... Ragna.
Ragna: You... Rachel Alucard... no, Rabbit...? Yeah, yeah, Rabbit! Heh, you're the same as always!
Wait, you have memories!?
Rachel: … Have you forgoten how to treat your master I wonder.
Ragna: Aa, yeah... It's the same old Rabbit. No doubt about it.
And? What do you want from me?
Rachel: … I've come to stop you. I can't let you proceed from here yet.
Ragna: Why?
Rachel: You... You were taken in by the Imperator immediately last time, have you forgotten? How much of an idiot are you?
I don't know what kinds of ideas Relius Clover have gotten into you, but the current you will only be used by Imperator.
Ragna: … sorry Rabbit. But even so, I have yo go... To Saya's place.
Rachel: Seriously... there are no medicine to give to idiots...

Rachel: You think of defeating the Imperator with that...
Ragna: …
Rachel: …? … What are you doing? Could it be that you try to make me lower my guard?
Ragna: Rabbit... No, Rachel... Were you this weak?
Rachel: …!!
Okay, if that is the case, I will not hold back from here-
Ragna: No, stop using any more power then this.
Rachel: …!
Ragna: You were a bit like intimidating but... Now I don't sense anything from you. What have happened exactly?
Rachel: …
Azrael: Yare yare. The food have finally come.
Ragna: Wha...!?

[MaximusMurkimus]

5 minutes ago, syzm said:

Noel is the 12th derivation of... whoever the original is inside Amaterasu (Es?).

In the opening of CT the laboratory she was in got blown up and she was left among the ruins. I would assume the lab being blown up interrupted her test tube development and she somehow ended up the way she is now as opposed to ending up like Lambda/Nu.

Just like the others, Noel is "fake" insofar as she is a replica of some original Jesus figure. Insert poorly handled ideas of the human rights/personal identity of clones here; i.e.: she's the "real" Noel because that's what she ended up becoming, even if she is just a copy.

Metal Gear Solid handled this idea much better OVER A DECADE AGO.

Which is why I exactly see Mori doing his own take on it.

[Xionic]

Oh phew thanks guys, so Noel's either a copy of whatever's inside Amaterasu or a version of her is inside it? The plot thickens, and gets several hundred times more confusing but still, it thickens.

[MaximusMurkimus]

One thing I'm curious about is what was the end game if Ragna stabbing Saya for real. Izanami apparently wants him to go and stop Amateratsu in order to reverse what he just did....so why not just show him a "what-if vision" like with the other endings? Unless the stabbing itself was the vision.

If not then congrats, you just wasted a perfectly good vessel trying to make a point. Not sure if it's hinted by the dialogue, but was she even expecting that to happen?  Izanami is hardly defeated in the other endings but for some reason is just gonna go Obi-Wan with Ragna? Something doesn't add up.