Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[tokin fuyou]

6 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Tsubaki says that she once had a desire to change the world. But that she is tired of a world that has to sacrifice someone. And if that person is someone dear to her, she will protect that person even if she becomes an enemy to the world.

The parallels to Ragna here are strong. I'd like to see the look on Tsubaki's face when that's pointed out to her after she said she thinks of Ragna as pure evil.

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

7 hours ago, tokin fuyou said:

The parallels to Ragna here are strong. I'd like to see the look on Tsubaki's face when that's pointed out to her after she said she thinks of Ragna as pure evil.

Tsubaki is the character who knows Ragna the least, it's not so much about them having similar ideals as she having the wrong impression about him.

[Yoshirocks92]

21 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Noel says to Tsubaki that it's enough, that she will be okay. But Tsubaki tells Noel to go, that Noel should have something to do that only she can do.

Well that's interesting that there is something that only Noel can do. Guess that's another question that can only be answered in the console version to Central Fiction. 

[kylehyde]

On April 10, 2016 at 9:02 AM, 1337 H@x0r said:

Well...

Tsubaki is the character who knows Ragna the least, it's not so much about them having similar ideals as she having the wrong impression about him.

For some reason I don't think her getting to know him would make much of a difference. Nothing would please Tsubaki more than killing Ragna, which kind of makes her as crazy and psychotic as Terumi. At least when it comes to Ragna.

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

1 hour ago, kylehyde said:

For some reason I don't think her getting to know him would make much of a difference. Nothing would please Tsubaki more than killing Ragna, which kind of makes her as crazy and psychotic as Terumi. At least when it comes to Ragna.

Nach, she is sounding too sane and reasonable to go templar on Ragna's ass.

Anyhow, which characters remain to be translated?

[Yoshirocks92]

Just now, 1337 H@x0r said:

Well...

Nach, she is sounding too sane and reasonable to go templar on Ragna's ass.

Anyhow, which characters remain to be translated?

I know Platinum needs to get translated. 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

2 hours ago, kylehyde said:

For some reason I don't think her getting to know him would make much of a difference. Nothing would please Tsubaki more than killing Ragna, which kind of makes her as crazy and psychotic as Terumi. At least when it comes to Ragna.

I guess she isn't that psychotic. I mean, in CP ending, Ragna hurt really bad Jin, so it was like she wanted vengence. And even Rachel gave her advice. She may have a twisted sense of justice sometimes, but she was very reasonable since that time.

Plus, since she likes Jin so much she would do anything good to "Senpai notice her", and what could please the Hero of Ikaruga better than killing Ragna?

[kylehyde]

7 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

 

Plus, since she likes Jin so much she would do anything good to "Senpai notice her", and what could please the Hero of Ikaruga better than killing Ragna?

This right here is what makes her wacko.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Just now, kylehyde said:

This right here is what makes her wacko.

People do crazy things when they are in love. We know how far people can get sometimes, right? *coughNUcough*

[kylehyde]

2 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

People do crazy things when they are in love. We know how far people can get sometimes, right? *coughNUcough*

Yeah but that's who Nu is, she's a crazy yandere. Tsubaki is a very down to earth character who is quite rational. But when Ragna is involved a Kill switch or something gets flipped and she becomes crazy. 

I don't blame Tsubaki though, I'm sure the "world" is influencing her in some way. 

[Ogiga99]

25 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

I guess she isn't that psychotic. I mean, in CP ending, Ragna hurt really bad Jin, so it was like she wanted vengence. And even Rachel gave her advice. She may have a twisted sense of justice sometimes, but she was very reasonable since that time.

Plus, since she likes Jin so much she would do anything good to "Senpai notice her", and what could please the Hero of Ikaruga better than killing Ragna?

It's not just vengeance. Rachel explicitly asks her this and she says it's more than that. It's also not just because she's in love, her views of justice and her feelings for Jin are two very separate things (and her biggest struggle so far has been what to do when the two come into conflict) and even then there is no reason for her to connect killing Ragna with pleasing Jin. Tsubaki sees Ragna as evil and not just ordinary evil, the source of evil in the world. It's not so much that she doesn't know Ragna, she flat out doesn't see him as a person. The fact that she is supposedly another user of the Power of Order makes so much sense because she has basically the same views as Hakumen. While yes, part of it is bias from her perspective (him showing up made Jin go crazy and caused him, Noel and Makoto to betray the NOL etc.) from the perspective of the balance of the world and such, she is technically right. Ragna is the enemy of humanity (and he has decided to embrace it by challenging all the Entitled in Act 3), which is why the Power of Order does what it does. Tsubaki's views are exactly the same, it's just that she is a bit more vocal and emphatic about her justice. I hate how everyone singles out Tsubaki to be the crazy one in everything she does, that she is obsessed with JIn to the point of doing anything for him and that she has completely baseless views on justice and morality, when in actuality everything crazy she did was because of Hazama's manipulation or Mind Eater. People act like she should be omniscient and know about Ragna being a good person and such. That isn't fair, she doesn't have the luxury that we do of seeing Ragna's perspective and what kind of person he is so of course she's going to suddenly going to stop seeing him as the villain. Ultimately Tsubaki is no more crazy than Bang or Hakumen, she is following her beliefs earnestly and they are perfectly well-founded.

[oh no, he said]

Ragna is also an actual terrorist who has likely killed NOL randoms who happened to be in his way when he was gonna got fuck up the caldron. You don't exactly earn the moniker "The Grim Reaper" for kissing kaka kittens and whistling Dixie while sending terrorist attack RSVP slips to all employees and the next cauldron he wants to fuck up so he doesn't ruin their casual Friday attire with all that blood of their coworkers and possibly their own. I know Ragna is presented as a hero, and he's definitely taken several times the recommended daily dose of chill pills since his introduction, but like the villains are: A manifested drive with a rager for genocide;effectively death itself, Puppet wizard Joseph Mengele, and a  pschopathic ghost who subsists on hate and despair and has about three minimum hidden agendas at any given time. Of course he's going to come off as heroic against that.

Now, I love Ragna, love how he's developed, but objectively speaking, there's really no argument against Tsubaki's judgement on Ragna beyond "He's a really nice guy, deep down, under all the bad Attitude and body count.". I Also really doubt that Tsubaki would drop everything and go ham on Ragna while the both on team #leavenoelalone. She wouldn't be happy about it, but Noel's safety clearly comes before her personal feelings right now, but Ragna is mad huge point on her team's favor for now and Tsubaki's not the Lawful Stupid.

 

 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

37 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

People act like she should be omniscient and know about Ragna being a good person and such. That isn't fair, she doesn't have the luxury that we do of seeing Ragna's perspective and what kind of person he is so of course she's going to suddenly going to stop seeing him as the villain. Ultimately Tsubaki is no more crazy than Bang or Hakumen, she is following her beliefs earnestly and they are perfectly well-founded.

Sometimes, I thought that since the events in CP, because I thought many people would see Ragna as a better person rather than he was labeled back at CT, as the villain, since the start of the game. And yes, I know his help when they were saving Tsubaki he was being the bait from that Colosseum event.

However after the Take-Mikazuchi events, it was normal for me to Tsubaki seeing him as a villain again, but mostly because how bad was Jin after battle. I understand, as you said, about her justice and her love being completely different to each other. But sometimes they really seems connected.

When we think Ragna's life could get worse, he becomes everyone's villain by his own will. I know he wants to save Noel and all, it is just... *sigh* it is like you gather followers to your cause and later you just turn again then. It sounds weird, but it is my point of the view from the situation.

[IsItWitty]

51 minutes ago, oh no, he said said:

killed NOL randoms

That was retconned.

Ragna never killed them, he just beat them up.

[Ogiga99]

44 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

That was retconned.

Ragna never killed them, he just beat them up.

That's not entirely true. While yes, it has been retconned that Ragna no longer went into the NOL Branches mercilessly hunting down and slaughtering everyone there, and instead he only violently brushed aside anyone dumb enough to get in his way, that doesn't change that he had no discretion in his attacks and recklessly endangered others with his actions. Many lives were still lost by him destroying the Cauldrons with no thought for collateral damage. He didn't directly kill those guards, but by incapacitating them he still prevented them from having any chance to escape the destruction of the NOL headquarters, leading to their deaths.

[IsItWitty]

19 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

That's not entirely true. While yes, it has been retconned that Ragna no longer went into the NOL Branches mercilessly hunting down and slaughtering everyone there, and instead he only violently brushed aside anyone dumb enough to get in his way, that doesn't change that he had no discretion in his attacks and recklessly endangered others with his actions. Many lives were still lost by him destroying the Cauldrons with no thought for collateral damage. He didn't directly kill those guards, but by incapacitating them he still prevented them from having any chance to escape the destruction of the NOL headquarters, leading to their deaths.

oh I'm not arguing that, the guy did just go in a wreck the branches.

[Toxin45]

Yeah Ragna pretty much had a bad track record but hey at least he is improving

[Mirage of Void]

I found this posted on 4chan. Es confirmed for major character? She seems to have gone through a redesign too, well the dress is different this time around at least.  Blue eyes.

[IsItWitty]

Zedar posted it in the News and Gameplay discussion.

And I'm not very knowledgeable about Code Embryo, but I feel like her sword looks different from what I've seen.

[Zedar90]

16 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

Zedar posted it in the News and Gameplay discussion.

And I'm not very knowledgeable about Code Embryo, but I feel like her sword looks different from what I've seen.

Yes, it looks different from the murakumo she is usually using. The one she is holding in that image looks like a giant version of the blades that Nu and Mu as attached on their arms instead of the blades floating behind them.

But then, we don't know much about Es' murakumo, not what it really does other then being sharp, and it's not revealed what price it has in usages.

[Toxin45]

 

2 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

Yes, it looks different from the murakumo she is usually using. The one she is holding in that image looks like a giant version of the blades that Nu and Mu as attached on their arms instead of the blades floating behind them.

But then, we don't know much about Es' murakumo, not what it really does other then being sharp, and it's not revealed what price it has in usages.

Yeah I know but it seems there is no price from what I have heard and also i am quite interested on  what es's role in all of this.

[1337 H@x0r]

Es is from the chronological past of the BB Universe, anything she wields is bound to look like a prototype or retro version of what they wield in the present.

It's like a WWII marine with a BAR jumping into a fight with SCARs, it's as every bit as awesome as it sounds.

[Mirage of Void]

12 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

Yes, it looks different from the murakumo she is usually using. The one she is holding in that image looks like a giant version of the blades that Nu and Mu as attached on their arms instead of the blades floating behind them.

But then, we don't know much about Es' murakumo, not what it really does other then being sharp, and it's not revealed what price it has in usages.

In the first image we saw of her it was her normal murakumo, maybe it transformed... or something.

[IsItWitty]

13 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

Yes, it looks different from the murakumo she is usually using. The one she is holding in that image looks like a giant version of the blades that Nu and Mu as attached on their arms instead of the blades floating behind them.

In fact, it sort of looks like what Kusanagi would look like if you put two of them together.

 

[IsItWitty]

13 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

Yes, it looks different from the murakumo she is usually using. The one she is holding in that image looks like a giant version of the blades that Nu and Mu as attached on their arms instead of the blades floating behind them.

In fact, it sort of looks like what Kusanagi would look like if you put two of them together.