Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Ogiga99]

That sword actually looks pretty familiar.

Granted the color is different but the resemblance is uncanny. The Kusanagi did fall into the Boundary at the end of Code: Embryo so it's possible Es somehow got it. Then again I have no idea what she would do with just two of the eight blades since it was impossible to actually wield the damn thing until Sechs discovered gravity magic, so only some of the blades should be useless on their own.

Another thing, according to the gematsu article, Mori says "you might get a bit of a different impression of Es compared to her in XBlaze." This most likely means that we are dealing with some insane convoluted version of this Es still being the Embryo or something like that (which again, if Es is playable what is the point of her meeting Nine and Celica in Lost: Memories if she won't remember it). Is it connected to Kusanagi's price of "Shared Existence" which lets her exist in all timelines simultaneously? Is it because Kusanagi makes her immune to Amaterasu's Intervention? Who knows. Of course I could be wrong and a different impression could be an actually happy Es but I doubt Mori is that kind.

Now what I really want to know is where she got the new look from. Pre-LM Es hardly seemed to have anything like a fashion sense.

EDIT: Does anyone know how to make the images bigger? Until then here are the links to full sized versions.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/blazblue/images/d/d8/XBlaze_Code_Embryo_%28Illustration%2C_10%2C_Type_A%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20130803223046

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/blazblue/images/e/e8/Sechs_%28Concept_Artwork%2C_16%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20160302094044

[IsItWitty]

6 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

That sword actually looks pretty familiar.

I knew someone else would see it

[Luminos564]

9 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

People act like she should be omniscient and know about Ragna being a good person and such. That isn't fair, she doesn't have the luxury that we do of seeing Ragna's perspective and what kind of person he is so of course she's going to suddenly going to stop seeing him as the villain. Ultimately Tsubaki is no more crazy than Bang or Hakumen, she is following her beliefs earnestly and they are perfectly well-founded.

I am not going to speak for other people, but while I do not fault Tsubaki for the views she has, I do draw an issue at her claim that he is "pure evil". Or as you put it in that she doesn't even see him as a person, when she had a first-hand experience to the contrary. I think some tend to forget (perhaps even Mori himself) that by CP's climax, Ragna had to work alongside Tsubaki, Makoto and Bang against the likes of Relius, Terumi and Izanami in order to prevent some big shit hitting the metaphorical fan. I wouldn't expect her to drop her opinion based on only one instance (Jin and Noel being injured only adds more fuel to the fire after all), but at the least, I'd have liked to see her question "why" a known criminal would go so far as to fight a Godzilla-sized mothafawker like Take-Mikazuchi for the world...or rather Celica's sake.

Personally, the issue with Tsubaki is a wasted opportunity. Here was an amazing, gold-mine set-up where Tsubaki could have encountered an amnesiac Ragna and through interaction could have been presented with evidence contradicting her views of him. Kinda like with Lyuze from Casshern Sins if you want an example. Still, elements of it seems be in place for the arcade since, even though hostile, Tsubaki was at least willing to hear what he had to say to her question before aiming for his neck. At the end of the day though, this is still the arcade version and who knows what can of worms the Story Mode for console will be.

And speaking of which...

2 hours ago, Mirage of Void said:

I found this posted on 4chan. Es confirmed for major character? She seems to have gone through a redesign too, well the dress is different this time around at least.  Blue eyes.

Es is in (console Story at least). Wonderful. We can finally know just what her deal/stake is in all this.

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

38 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

That sword actually looks pretty familiar.

Granted the color is different and the hilt seems way too long but the resemblance is uncanny. The Kusanagi did fall into the Boundary at the end of Code: Embryo so it's possible Es somehow got it. Then again I have no idea what she would do with just two of the eight blades since it was impossible to actually wield the damn thing until Sechs discovered gravity magic, so only some of the blades should be useless on their own.

Another thing, according to the gematsu article, Mori says "you might get a bit of a different impression of Es compared to her in XBlaze." This most likely means that we are dealing with some insane convoluted version of this Es still being the Embryo or something like that (which again, if Es is playable what is the point of her meeting Nine and Celica in Lost: Memories if she won't remember it). Is it connected to Kusanagi's price of "Shared Existence" which lets her exist in all timelines simultaneously? Is it because Kusanagi makes her immune to Amaterasu's Intervention? Who knows. Of course I could be wrong and a different impression could be an actually happy Es but I doubt Mori is that kind.

Now what I really want to know is where she got the new look from. Pre-LM Es hardly seemed to have anything like a fashion sense.

Alternate Es, nah. Mori is a bastard, he is the kind who loves kicking his characters back and fort past despair event horizon and undoing anything meaningful they ever accomplish.

X Blaze is Chronologically placed some 20 years before the Dark War whereas Bloodedge Experience occurs roughly at the same time it should take place.

From my perspective the Wadatsumi incident and it's subsequent timelines eventually lead to a similar situation as that of Central Fiction with the world ending into a new embryo and Amaterasu rage quitting to the point she erased the Wadatsumi incident and every trace of those timelines except for Es who wound up guarding the sketchbook containing OPFD's memories of that previous Universe.

Amaterasu then created the BB Universe and plugged the hole she left by erasing the XB Universe through a massive paradox in the form of CT's endless loop.

That gamble allowed Amaterasu to keep her rewritten world alive at least for a couple centuries more but after all the crap that happened in CS and CP the world ended up ending again so she created the BEE Universe by changing Naoto's fate and preventing the Dark War from happening.

Only that, because of her faith in Ragna still saving her, Amaterasu didn't go through the full destruction and recreation process and Naoto's world got stuck into a Schrodinger's state of existing and not existing at the same time.

Naoto is supposed to be Ragna's successor and replacement but since OPFD, like most of the fandom, is not buying him as the new protagonist of the story yet so he remains a parallel hypothetical existence to Ragna's.

In the timeless reality of the Embryo this isn't much of a problem but since both occupy the same spot in Amaterasu's observation if Naoto gets too close to Ragna then the Master Unit might be unable to recognize the two as different entities and thus erase one of them.

[IsItWitty]

here's this

[MaximusMurkimus]

I hope Mori can come up with a plot-relevant reason to throw the rest of the XBlaze heroes in the story. Hell, it could be as simple as "omg Es is in trouble guys, let's help her out"

Touya, Mei, and Kuon pls Mori

Also, Touya w/Murakumo could very well be a reason for Es to find another BFS to use, since she apparently still has blue eyes like when she inherited the Embryo and stopped using it. Maybe that version of Es is the one we're dealing with here, which would explain why she still has the blue eyes and is apparently wandering around this Embryo world.

 

[IsItWitty]

Most definitely not the same sword.

 

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

1 minute ago, IsItWitty said:

here's this

Dang! It looks and feels as if I was playing Saber from Fate Stay Night.

[Luminos564]

3 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

here's this

Anyone notice that in that move Es looks like she's (kinda) making the "hourglass" that was present in Chronophantasma? Or at least the openings?

[IsItWitty]

2 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

It looks and feels as if I was playing Saber from Fate Stay Night.

I don't see it

[IsItWitty]

2 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

It looks and feels as if I was playing Saber from Fate Stay Night.

I don't see it

[Contreras1991]

1 minute ago, IsItWitty said:

I don't see it

Maybe the fact a tiny swordman (swordwoman) with blue dress and blonde hair and with an ahoge xD

[IsItWitty]

2 minutes ago, Contreras1991 said:

Maybe the fact a tiny swordman (swordwoman) with blue dress and blonde hair and with an ahoge xD

So something rather generic?

Doesn't really scream Saber to me.

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

7 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

So something rather generic?

Doesn't really scream Saber to me.

Ya don't need to reinvent the wheel to be Saber.

[Contreras1991]

 

Maybe he was thinking in something like this

Spoiler

 

[Zedar90]

Es' quote from that image of her:

Ragna. I will... guide you to the "gate". That is the "Azure's will".

[Contreras1991]

So she still acting like some kind of guardian?

[Ogiga99]

53 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

I am not going to speak for other people, but while I do not fault Tsubaki for the views she has, I do draw an issue at her claim that he is "pure evil". Or as you put it in that she doesn't even see him as a person, when she had a first-hand experience to the contrary. I think some tend to forget (perhaps even Mori himself) that by CP's climax, Ragna had to work alongside Tsubaki, Makoto and Bang against the likes of Relius, Terumi and Izanami in order to prevent some big shit hitting the metaphorical fan. I wouldn't expect her to drop her opinion based on only one instance (Jin and Noel being injured only adds more fuel to the fire after all), but at the least, I'd have liked to see her question "why" a known criminal would go so far as to fight a Godzilla-sized mothafawker like Take-Mikazuchi for the world...or rather Celica's sake.

Personally, the issue with Tsubaki is a wasted opportunity. Here was an amazing, gold-mine set-up where Tsubaki could have encountered an amnesiac Ragna and through interaction could have been presented with evidence contradicting her views of him. Kinda like with Lyuze from Casshern Sins if you want an example. Still, elements of it seems be in place for the arcade since, even though hostile, Tsubaki was at least willing to hear what he had to say to her question before aiming for his neck. At the end of the day though, this is still the arcade version and who knows what can of worms the Story Mode for console will be.

Tsubaki really didn't get much first-hand experience to the contrary. Even when she first sees him with Kagura post-rescue, her first reaction is an angry "Ragna the Bloodedge" despite the circumstances. Helping them doesn't necessarily mean much since to her it could be that he simply doesn't want the complete end of the world, so it could have been a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation. And even then, immediately after that he betrayed what little trust she might have gained by nearly murdering Jin and Noel.

I don't think Act 1 was a wasted opportunity for them since Tsubaki was one of the many characters to lose her memories. Any interaction with amnesiac Ragna wouldn't stick anyway. Besides it's hard to believe the guy saying "what are you talking about, I didn't do those crimes" would be showing her anything positive.

 

40 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

X Blaze is Chronologically placed some 20 years before the Dark War whereas Bloodedge Experience occurs roughly at the same time it should take place.

From my perspective the Wadatsumi incident and it's subsequent timelines eventually lead to a similar situation as that of Central Fiction with the world ending into a new embryo and Amaterasu rage quitting to the point she erased the Wadatsumi incident and every trace of those timelines except for Es who wound up guarding the sketchbook containing OPFD's memories of that previous Universe.

Not gonna argue your theory again but XBlaze explicitly takes in 2050, 50 years before the Dark War, not 20. Bloodedge Experience takes place quite a bit later since Mei is much older (she is pretty much the only member of the Amanohokosaka clan in XBlaze but it is much bigger in BE, with even a prominent branch family). That's before even getting into the possibility that Yuki Himezuru is Haruka's mom Yuki Hayami. Yuki doesn't have a significant other or a child in XBlaze so it must be at least 16 years later for her to have a 16 year old daughter.

How would you factor Mei creating a new organization at the end of Lost: Memories with the purpose of tracking down and destroying all the Gates so that no one can use them for evil ambitions like Unomaru did? That didn't happen in the BlazBlue timeline since only Touya (who only existed because of the Wadatsumi Incident) had the power to destroy a Cauldron. That and the World of the Tsukuyomi sealing off the XBlaze world from the rest of the Boundary entirely should change the outcome and prevent Amaterasu's involvement.

 

43 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I hope Mori can come up with a plot-relevant reason to throw the rest of the XBlaze heroes in the story. Hell, it could be as simple as "omg Es is in trouble guys, let's help her out"

Touya, Mei, and Kuon pls Mori

I could see Touya getting involved, but the others seems to be too much to fit in. At this point throwing in Kuon would most likely also force Elise in and that seems like too much. Having both Es and Touya would parallel Naoto's situation with the two main characters being brought over and two having current characters know about them (Relius and Valkenhayn for Naoto and Nine and Celica for Es). Also, it would be hilarious to have the three protagonists running around and everyone going "great, what the hell is going on with all these Ragna-ish guys popping up?" Plus, we need Mori to stop beating around the bush and just admit that yes, Touya and Es finally got together.

 

29 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

So something rather generic?

Doesn't really scream Saber to me.

Also, Es's current situation does seem to have some parallels with Saber's role as a Counter Guardian.

[Stryker115]

Now I REALLY want Ragna to somehow get hold of Sechs's Kusanagi

And maybe have it talk to his mind like some sort of emphatic weapon

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

3 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

Not gonna argue your theory again but XBlaze explicitly takes in 2050, 50 years before the Dark War, not 20. Bloodedge Experience takes place quite a bit later since Mei is much older (she is pretty much the only member of the Amanohokosaka clan in XBlaze but it is much bigger in BE, with even a prominent branch family). That's before even getting into the possibility that Yuki Himezuru is Haruka's mom Yuki Hayami. Yuki doesn't have a significant other or a child in XBlaze so it must be at least 16 years later for her to have a 16 year old daughter.

How would you factor Mei creating a new organization at the end of Lost: Memories with the purpose of tracking down and destroying all the Gates so that no one can use them for evil ambitions like Unomaru did? That didn't happen in the BlazBlue timeline since only Touya (who only existed because of the Wadatsumi Incident) had the power to destroy a Cauldron. That and the World of the Tsukuyomi sealing off the XBlaze world from the rest of the Boundary entirely should change the outcome and prevent Amaterasu's involvement.

Clearly something went wrong with that whole "World of Tsukuyomi" deal since Es is back into the Boundary and her Watashi friend turned into a mad revenant trying to blow up the world.

If Es got a perfect happy ending and nothing went wrong with her Universe then, given what we know now of Amaterasu and it's wielder, there would have been no reason for the BB Universe to exist.

According to Nine, a fully powered Take-Mikazuchi can destroy the world just as fine as the Black Beast and since the XB closed it's cauldrons theoretically there were no Dark War and no reason for Nine to find and depower Take-Mikazuchi from it's world destroying potential.

Case in point, since Izanami can hijack Take-Mikazuchi from orbit once she has fully manifested in the real world, I am inclined to think that Es world was ultimately destroyed by a possessed "Saya" of sorts using Take-Mikazuchi in the place of the Black Beast.

Under such scenario the heroes were basically screwed and Amaterasu had to give up, without Nox Nyctoris or Ars Magus there are very few beings who can fight monsters outside logic much less one with the power of destroy the entire world like Take-Mikazuchi.

Take-Mikazuchi, Take-Mikazuchi, Take-Mikazuchi, Take-Mikazuchi... I love repeating this words!

[sg1989]

10 hours ago, oh no, he said said:

Ragna is also an actual terrorist who has likely killed NOL randoms who happened to be in his way when he was gonna got fuck up the caldron. You don't exactly earn the moniker "The Grim Reaper" for kissing kaka kittens and whistling Dixie while sending terrorist attack RSVP slips to all employees and the next cauldron he wants to fuck up so he doesn't ruin their casual Friday attire with all that blood of their coworkers and possibly their own. I know Ragna is presented as a hero, and he's definitely taken several times the recommended daily dose of chill pills since his introduction, but like the villains are: A manifested drive with a rager for genocide;effectively death itself, Puppet wizard Joseph Mengele, and a  pschopathic ghost who subsists on hate and despair and has about three minimum hidden agendas at any given time. Of course he's going to come off as heroic against that.

Now, I love Ragna, love how he's developed, but objectively speaking, there's really no argument against Tsubaki's judgement on Ragna beyond "He's a really nice guy, deep down, under all the bad Attitude and body count.". I Also really doubt that Tsubaki would drop everything and go ham on Ragna while the both on team #leavenoelalone. She wouldn't be happy about it, but Noel's safety clearly comes before her personal feelings right now, but Ragna is mad huge point on her team's favor for now and Tsubaki's not the Lawful Stupid.

 

 

As the NOL has killed innocent people during the war Ikaruga blindly following orders and Tsubaki kill people in the name of justice (wing of the justice)

They do not seem much better of Ragna
But why the NOL can do these things it without it look like an evil empire  ?

Tsubaki is not so much better than Ragna, and the power of the order worsens the judgment that I have on her, as well as Jin.
There must be a reason if Jubei said that the power of the order is not good and it bad, and I think that these two are the worst people for this power
I would not be surprised if in a hypothetical BB5, this two will be intent on making the world a kind of Nosgoth 2.0 XD

 

Sorry for my bad english

[Luminos564]

11 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Es' quote from that image of her:

Ragna. I will... guide you to the "gate". That is the "Azure's will".

Ooooohhhhh. Wait...if Es is a "guardian of the Gate" then does that mean that vague, off-hand comment from Jubei about Ragne becoming a "guardian of the Azure" might be brought to light here? And this Es knows Ragna to boot (then again, so does every random street urchin these days). The plot thickens.

11 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Tsubaki really didn't get much first-hand experience to the contrary. Even when she first sees him with Kagura post-rescue, her first reaction is an angry "Ragna the Bloodedge" despite the circumstances. Helping them doesn't necessarily mean much since to her it could be that he simply doesn't want the complete end of the world, so it could have been a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation. And even then, immediately after that he betrayed what little trust she might have gained by nearly murdering Jin and Noel.

I don't think Act 1 was a wasted opportunity for them since Tsubaki was one of the many characters to lose her memories. Any interaction with amnesiac Ragna wouldn't stick anyway. Besides it's hard to believe the guy saying "what are you talking about, I didn't do those crimes" would be showing her anything positive.

Before I respond, let me express my appreciation. Discussing this weighty lore and its characters has been a delight so far. I mean that with utmost sincerity and not one hint of sarcasm on my part, even if I do not agree with everything. Now then...

Even still, Tsubaki should be aware that whether it is out of personal beliefs or simply circumstance, the fact remains that Ragna's actions during the incident ultimately benefited the world at large. It's far and away from the "pure, source of all evil" that she named him to Rachel. Now again, I am fully aware that hurting both Jin and Noel put damn big wedge between them and I do not expect them to sit down for tea anytime soon. Likewise, I am not expecting Tsubaki to be all-too forgiving on her part since at the end of the day, Ragna is picking up a "villain ball" in order to deny the desires of the Entitled. Alls I am saying though, it would have been nice nice to create some dramatic tension with Tsubaki as people do explain just what in the blazing hell happened at CP's climax and his actual involvement.

It's why I called it a "wasted opportunity" though perhaps that was too harsh on my end. Even still, are you positive said interactions during the amnesia in Act I wouldn't stick? Ragna seems to be different, judging by his tone and demeanor following Act III. It's still Ragna for sure, but he is definitely turned out for the better. Similarly, "actions speak louder than words". Tsubaki may not believe an amnesiac Ragna should he have ever denied what she accused him of, but you know how that goes in games like this: Character X gets accused/attacked by Character Y. X spares Y or otherwise does everything in their power not to kill the latter. Y starts getting doubts etc. I kinda like that scenario, but ultimately I do understand that this is Mori's tale, however..."haphazard" it seems at times. So I am not going to go out of my way to demand the story fit to my preference.

[Fenris]

Phew, thank the gods, Es is dressed conservatively. I was starting to get a bit annoyed by all the boobs going out of orbit, denim panties, and skintight latex t-shirts and such.

Huh, it's funny... Something that neither of us took into consideration in our little debate over Es' appearance is the possibility that she may not even be wielding the Murakumo. The idea was that having the Murakumo and the Azure Eyes simultaneously would not have worked out for a number of reasons. Although, I guess there was no getting around that when she did appear to have them both in the brief image we saw of her. Still, I facepalm at my lack of critical thinking a few pages back.

[Finuve]

I'd never complain about more cleavage, but I like variety and Es looks good. Really intrigued by her basically calling for Ragna

[Luminos564]

Take a look right smack in the middle of the background. Notice the eye and maw of teeth. THAT'S A BLACK BEAST!

*Original post courtesy of Shado_Onikkisu so be be sure to thank them.