Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[BlazGearRegalia]

1 hour ago, JRH said:

I am sure that Nine will definitely saved from her madness in the story mode as shown in Celica's Act 3 ending especially since Es' appearance will make her rethink her actions, but Terumi has it so much worse then hers that there is no chance of redemption for him. It is true that this could provide a hint to Terumi's past because he was lied to by the Master Unit so it must have made him believe that the world was nothing but lies.

 

"This world is nothing but lies!!!"

 

1 hour ago, Madness4455 said:

I have one theory.  It may not be good, but worth a try.

Okay, Terumi's origins are practically unknown. However, somebody[forgot who] commented on how Nine is becoming just like Terumi. Behavior and gameplay-wise, both of them tend to place their foot on a defeated opponent, both are willing to show the cast the 'truth' about the Blazblue verse, and both are aiming to destroy the Amateratsu unit. Judging by how Nine became corrupted after her field trip in the boundary, whose to say Terumi didn't went through the same fate as Nine did?

I believe Nine's change of character might be a potential clue to Terumi's origins. You have to ask yourself, 'was this guy always evil?' and is he simply just a man who lost his sanity in the timeloops? I'd like to think that at some point Terumi probably lost something valuable or rather Amateratsu did something so unforgivable, that it cost him his sanity and made him a monster, hellbent on bringing despair onto others and wants others to experience what he had experienced. 

This may sound cliche and dumb, but I think Nine's character change could be a clue behind Terumi's background.

 

I actually had similar thoughts on the matter. It's plausible, but for now, we should hold out until CF gets released!

[Kenji Harima]

On 26.05.2016 at 8:09 PM, Ogiga99 said:

The Onlooker is not supposed to interfere with the human "possibility" for the future but he can (or at least considers it worth the risk to) intervene to allow that possibility to exist

I have rewatched recenlty his Acts and he said that at least „he can gives people choices” + his other actions so yeah he is interfering too.

 

On 26.05.2016 at 1:46 AM, Ogiga99 said:

No. Mu is just the the Godslayer power personified. By definition, the vessel is the being that contains the soul in it. Mu is something different. Kokonoe makes it very clear that the "gods" are unable to directly act in the world without a body to inhabit. Noel being the soul physically manifested is impossible. The entire point of people searching for the Lynchpin is that if they use it against Noel, it will negate the seithr that makes up her Prime Field body and release the soul. In Mu's ending, Izanami says she has no interest in Mu since she is just the Godslayer powers, Noel is the only one relevant when it comes to Amaterasu, which is what the vessel is in reference to.

Ok but the result would be the same if Noel didn't „cut off" Mu??? Probably „The Origin” would use Noel as the vessel even if she possess „the godslayer power”.  Mainly reason of this „disconnection” was shown in Noel's Act 3 ending (she wants protect „that person”) but we can't be really sure that her way of thinking is right especially after Rachel's words that Noel should rethink again about this rejection (Rachel seems to be „buddy” with Amaterasu so probably she knows who „The Origin” was from the beginning and I assume that she is still keeping some secrets).

However in my opinion their „split” was possible due to Noel acknowledged Mu in the CP: specifically at herself but I think this „detail” isn't so important cause the effect was the same: she provided Mu existence to the World thanks to her „Power of the Eye..”. Mu wtihout this previous act won't be able to personified in the CF. I would also point that Amaterasu doesn't have a „monopoly” to make Phenomena Intervention.

Another thing is that Mu-12 probably never survived the attack of Take-Mikazuchi on Ibukido: mainly cause Hakumen said that he didn't remember a person named „Noel Vermillion” from his timeline when he was a Jin (Tsubaki take a role as his assistant + died by Nu-13 hand). I have been excluding the timeline where Ragna became a „Bloodedge” (Our Ragna was sent back in the CP to fill the gap and stable „Bloodedge” existence + by the way to gain more knowledge about „everything”) because it was never said if Noel even survived Ibukido's incident or how long Noel was living there. I mean to which point.

If Amaterasu didn't take Mu as her vessel (I remember that we were discussing about it several pages before) at the beginning or at the end of CT then she or the Azure itself DID something to protect Mu so Noel could birth (Btw. Before Mu was smelted again in the CS she subconsciously existed → she had a control when Noel met Nu-13 first time in the CT). I highly doubt the timeloop ended by an accident.

All vessels which were brought in this universe used to have the same trait → they are nearly pefected in look (and only in the look because personality can be different) to the original body which the owner of soul had so I assume that „The Origin” could possess Saya as well.

On the other hand which beings we can acknowledge as gods or godlike: only Amaterasu and Izanami? I would add two other Sankishin too. Their wielders however are thing to debate: it's another speculation but I think that Hakumen's soul won't go straight to the Azure if he dies. He might be take a soul/wraith form and I won't be really surprised if he would be able to take a Jin as his vessel. However Terumi case isn't obvious: he mostly survives thanks to his abilities and several other factors but his potentially „godlike” status might be one of them. Of course we need to see if „Realm of gods” contains more of them or just it's only a sphere where Master Unit resides.

Hope they will bring a reliable explanation how Noel became "The Origin" (It was easier to point something when "OPFD" was debating here but if she is the first who contacted with Master Unit things have changed again).

 

On 28.05.2016 at 3:13 AM, Toxin45 said:

Now It seems Ragna seems to realize that even if Izanami is gone the Saya he knew is dead and Saya is already dying also Noel is more like Saya then Saya herself.

It's strange for me that Ragna doesn't hesitate to harm his sister body (it seems like this). Even Naoto looks much more against it I understand that he doesn't concern about fighting with Jin (who would care about hellish brother like Jin even if he softened a little in the CP?) but with Saya?

 

19 hours ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

"This world is nothing but lies!!!"

His angry might be understable because except of souls, the Azure, Black Beast, maybe Original Units and some Azure-related artifacts (it's a general statement cause probably I forgot about something) the rest of things in this world probably are "mass of seithr". Quite pesimistic world's construction. "Particular program" eh? Nice "Matrix". Looking at story told by Rachel in the CP and the other one by Clavis in Phase Shit 2 novel I won't be surprised about possibility that the "World of lies" exists way before the timeloop.

 

[Toxin45]

At this point saya pretty much became an even worse sibling towards ragna then even Jin himself as while Jin pretty much wants to kill ragna it's more about protecting the world while saya after being possessed and warped by Izanami the master unit's driven wants to make everyone die. Granted ragna does a get a little upset but he isn't hesitate to stop his sister even if it hurting her.  As you said even Naoto was against it but ragna knows what is at stake so yeah.

[ChainRevolver]

Subbed Act3 videos have been posted over at Youtube. The poster has posted several characters already. Yep. Tager's final boss is Noel. I hope I can find Makoto's arcade run soon, too.

 

Also, In Kagura's ending, Kokonoe says:

 

'Noel is a part of the Master Unit. No, you could call her the very Master Unit itself. Meaning she is the God of this world...'

 

For some reason, the way she mixed her words, especially on the very last part, it seems that she's planning something to Noel. :P

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

It's strange for me that Ragna doesn't hesitate to harm his sister body (it seems like this). Even Naoto looks much more against it  I understand that he doesn't concern about fighting with Jin (who would care about hellish brother like Jin even if he softened a little in the CP?) but with Saya?

I thought the same thing in his Act 2 ending, but as someone pointed out to me in the middle of all the rage, Izanami apparently stabbed herself with his sword to trigger a Phenomenea Intervention, which is why she was so full of it with the creepy smile and "pointless to resist" rhetoric.

As for fighting her beforehand, Ragna could easily be aware that his attacks wouldn't really hurt either Izzy nor Saya to the point where he has to worry; even when he rekt Jin in CS he say something along the lines of "you'll be aight", I'm guessing he assumed the same with Saya, and sure enough, some of her KO sprites have her just kinda conceding the win to her opponent.

I wonder how far he plans to go for his other "sisters", though. Noel we've know about since CT, Lambda was basically Saya with no memories during their time in Alter Memory, and trying to help Nu had him paying big time. Wonder what they'll have their fates be in the end?

I'm fully expecting some sort of super Noel with the memories of all of them combined. might be messy.

[Kenji Harima]

54 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I thought the same thing in his Act 2 ending, but as someone pointed out to me in the middle of all the rage, Izanami apparently stabbed herself with his sword to trigger a Phenomenea Intervention, which is why she was so full of it with the creepy smile and "pointless to resist" rhetoric.

As for fighting her beforehand, Ragna could easily be aware that his attacks wouldn't really hurt either Izzy nor Saya to the point where he has to worry; even when he rekt Jin in CS he say something along the lines of "you'll be aight", I'm guessing he assumed the same with Saya, and sure enough, some of her KO sprites have her just kinda conceding the win to her opponent.

She let herself to be stabbed on purpose but effect it's the same like you said -> in goal to trigger Phenomena Intervention + show some "news" to Ragna. Except of Izanami who is immortal thanks to her several traits it looks like that nobody can die within the Embryo as long as the source of disortion lives (Noel).

After all it doesn't change the fact that Izanami is technically Saya too I mean Ragna was calling her "Saya" until his Act 3 ending (in dialogue with Amane he has finally started to refer this being as Izanami not Saya), the Saya's soul seems to be within this body cause Izanami feels her reactions toward Ragna (so probably Relius haven't extracted Saya's soul what is interesting. I excluded Naoto's case) and finally the body (without Relius' customization I bet she would looks like Noel).

However it's understandable for me that Mori probably forfeited potentially Ragna's inner-conflict plot (battle with little sister) due to personality development in previous games: Ragna has learnt how to keep his emotions (to some point of course) for major general goal and he tries to avoid "killing" as much as possbile.

Speaking of "sisters" I am also interested in how much influence Saya's memories have on their personalities. It's really hard to point what Saya is like. I won't stick with an easy conclusion that Noel = Saya in the concept of personality. I am expecting a plot twist in Saya's case. 

[Toxin45]

Well the console version should be a series of plot twists on that 

 

Such as 

Ragna,Jin,and Saya's real origins

Terumi's true identity and Hazama's true goals

The Master unit's identity

How Es became the guardian to the gate

How Rachel was born and basically what is behind that gate.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

35 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

Well the console version should be a series of plot twists on that 

 

Such as 

Ragna,Jin,and Saya's real origins

Terumi's true identity and Hazama's true goals

The Master unit's identity

How Es became the guardian to the gate

How Rachel was born and basically what is behind that gate.

And some other things about Naoto

[VermilionBird]

13 hours ago, ChainRevolver said:

Subbed Act3 videos have been posted over at Youtube. The poster has posted several characters already. Yep. Tager's final boss is Noel. I hope I can find Makoto's arcade run soon, too.

@Sourenga is the reason for most, if not all, of those subs.

[Kenji Harima]

44 minutes ago, VermilionBird said:

@Sourenga is the reason for most, if not all, of those subs.

All because actually the "poster" about he(?) was mentioning it's a some dude who is "regarding" Sourenga for his work (he wrote about this in all video descriptions). I guess that he isn't an active user on the forum cause he hasn't uploaded any other video since Sourenga hidden them (and so the reason why he did it).

[JRH]

Hey guys, since CF's story mode will be from Ragna's perspective, we probably won't need to worry about seeing certain important events from arcade mode. Looks like they want to focus on Ragna's interactions with the more important characters before wrapping it up.

[Ogiga99]

20 hours ago, JRH said:

Hey guys, since CF's story mode will be from Ragna's perspective, we probably won't need to worry about seeing certain important events from arcade mode. Looks like they want to focus on Ragna's interactions with the more important characters before wrapping it up.

The story will mostly be from Ragna's perspective but that doesn't mean that we will be following him at all times. CP was like this, the main route was from his perspective at least 80% of the time but there are so many events going on with everyone that they need to cut away from him. It would be utterly impossible to address all of the issues and answer all of the questions the game needs to if it only focuses on Ragna. Many of those Arcade events (Nine creating Take-Mikazuchi, Amane's plan to return the Master Unit to the Boundary, Naoto saving the "possibility" for his world, Terumi getting a new vessel etc.) are far too important to be cut.

[JRH]

You are right Ogiga, arcade events such as Celica convincing Nine to stop, Arakune in the process of becoming a black beast, Nu nearly killing Mu, Izanami coming to put Noel back in the Master Unit, Platinum being saved and Trinity getting a new body appear to be far too important to be cut out of the story mode, considering all of this is before Es makes her big appearance in the middle. I am looking forward to how everything up to this point ends since this is the conclusion of the Azure saga.

[Toxin45]

So we can all assume for the first part of story mode is based on the first 3 acts, while in the middle part is focused on Es ,and the last part is the conclusion with all the shocking revelations,plot twists, and Ragna's origins finally explained.

[Chaoschao222]

No, we can't assume that at all.

[JRH]

10 minutes ago, Chaoschao222 said:

No, we can't assume that at all.

I guess we will have to wait for the story mode in autumn to find out for sure.

[Yoshirocks92]

On 5/30/2016 at 2:27 AM, MaximusMurkimus said:

I'm fully expecting some sort of super Noel with the memories of all of them combined. might be messy.

Now that kinda makes me wonder if Noel is going to get a new form or something but that's kinda a long shot since if I think about it, in all of the other timeloops  Mu-12 hadn't survived that explosion but in some of them Mu did survive. But there's something about Mu's Act III ending in which she wanted to know who Noel was but when Noel was asked about this, she started to freak out and said that she doesn't want to remember. Like I know that the story is mostly going to focus on Ragna but I have a gut feeling that it's going to lead to Noel since she split with Mu since she started to be scared and afraid of everything.

[Volt]

7 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

So we can all assume for the first part of story mode is based on the first 3 acts, while in the middle part is focused on Es ,and the last part is the conclusion with all the shocking revelations,plot twists, and Ragna's origins finally explained.

Not at all. In fact, due to the obnoxious CP -> CF gap, we can definitely rule out the possibility of the 3 Acts starting the story. I'd say those happen around the 20%->50% marks of the story. Then we get to move on to the huge plot twists (Like Izanami was Linhua all along )

On 26/05/2016 at 7:56 PM, JRH said:

Hey guys, do you think that Stages 3, 6, 7, 8, for Act 3 of each character take place at different times? Can you give it some thought please?

P.S. Could CF's story mode be 90 or 120 hours long?

Certain events have overlapping Arcade Stages. (Tsubaki's ending is pretty much the same event as Izayoi and Jin's Stage 3.) So in a sense, the player might feel that things happen at different times, but it's the same event told from different points of view.

Obviously, due to the nature of Arcade Stories, there are some inconsistencies that make building a hard timeline pretty much impossible. However, as long as you focus on the common events (Eg: Tsubaki, as Izayoi finds out that Hakumen is Jin.) and then the things that doesn't cause inconsistencies, (Eg: Carl is pretty much Relius Jr. and is one of the people who chased Noel.) you can make a rough timeline of what events happened when and which order the Arcade endings appear.

For example, Ragna is one of the earliest (Amane may or may not come first, but I can't check it now.) because in all of the other endings, he already had decided on what he wanted to do. Likewise, Tsubaki definitely comes before Jin and Izayoi's because their 3rd stage is pretty much the same as her 8th.

The main issue in building a timeline is that it's a huge piece of work to look at everything and try and see where it fits in the puzzle. (For Example: Tao's might happen after Hazama's because he ends his going to greet Ragna and Tao saves him in one of her stages. That is, if this was the same fight Hazama was preparing for in his ending.)

It gets worse when you look at Berserk Mu and Noel. They are separate beings now, so why do they fill the same role in a lot of different endings? This is an example of a source of inconsistency that disrupts a timeline. You can't figure a lot of the endings' placements because you can't know who calmed Noel or Mu down.

[MaximusMurkimus]

Izanami's motivations are starting to contradict each other. 

If she's trying to destroy the Master Unit in the first place, why does she need to put Noel back in it? And if she needs Noel back in it,  why is she actively encouraging most of the playable cast to off her? Matter of fact, why doesn't she do this all herself if it's such a big deal? 

If we're going off of the idea that Saya is somewhat cooperating with Izzy in her plans, I'm gonna say that she's just being petty when it comes to Noel and much rather spend quality time with Ragna through trying to beat the tar out of one another instead. 

[Ogiga99]

27 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Izanami's motivations are starting to contradict each other. 

If she's trying to destroy the Master Unit in the first place, why does she need to put Noel back in it? And if she needs Noel back in it,  why is she actively encouraging most of the playable cast to off her? Matter of fact, why doesn't she do this all herself if it's such a big deal? 

If we're going off of the idea that Saya is somewhat cooperating with Izzy in her plans, I'm gonna say that she's just being petty when it comes to Noel and much rather spend quality time with Ragna through trying to beat the tar out of one another instead. 

 

Simple. Both of those are the same result. The Master Unit cannot be destroyed because the soul is missing from it and inside Noel. Kokonoe confirmed Noel as a vessel so if Noel dies the soul of "The Origin" will be released (and most likely return to its original place). Either she directly puts Noel in or the body is destroyed, it ends the same. Izanami also answered why she sent everyone to kill Noel in Mu's ending. She didn't expect them to kill Noel since that is impossible without either the Lynchpin or Immortal Breaker. She was hoping that one of them would successfully kill Mu, thinking she was Noel. Izanami has no interest in Mu and potentially sees her as a threat so sending out a Noel kill squad would take care of that (as well as drive Noel to the edge).

[Tokkan]

6 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Kokonoe confirmed Noel as a vessel so if Noel dies the soul of "The Origin" will be released (and most likely return to its original place).

Kokonoe never called Noel a vessel, she called Noel the Master Unit's other self (bunshin) before correcting herself and saying Noel is the Master Unit itself. She did refer to the prime field device as Noel's vessel.

At no point has Noel been called a vessel of The Origin, that's just a speculation. She's just been called "The Origin" or "the Master Unit's core".

[Toxin45]

So tokkan your saying that Noel is the master unit's core and she had been using prime fields as her vessels? Because I not to be rude or anything that is exactly what it sounds like at this point.

[BlazGearRegalia]

8 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Izanami's motivations are starting to contradict each other. 

If she's trying to destroy the Master Unit in the first place, why does she need to put Noel back in it? And if she needs Noel back in it,  why is she actively encouraging most of the playable cast to off her? Matter of fact, why doesn't she do this all herself if it's such a big deal? 

If we're going off of the idea that Saya is somewhat cooperating with Izzy in her plans, I'm gonna say that she's just being petty when it comes to Noel and much rather spend quality time with Ragna through trying to beat the tar out of one another instead. 

 

 

I have, but this to say:

 

Noel VS Mu VS Nu VS Lambda VS Izanami

 

It's a battle of the Sayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

 

Also, sounds like Saya's trying to be like CT/CS Jin, and that's the last thing we need. *insert overused Nii-saaaaaaaaaaaaaaan joke* But, who knows, what with the great and powerful Mori.

[Toxin45]

Except replace that with ni-sama 

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

18 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Izanami's motivations are starting to contradict each other. 

If she's trying to destroy the Master Unit in the first place, why does she need to put Noel back in it? And if she needs Noel back in it,  why is she actively encouraging most of the playable cast to off her? Matter of fact, why doesn't she do this all herself if it's such a big deal? 

If we're going off of the idea that Saya is somewhat cooperating with Izzy in her plans, I'm gonna say that she's just being petty when it comes to Noel and much rather spend quality time with Ragna through trying to beat the tar out of one another instead. 

 

I think this is all because Izanami was created to fill the role of a traditional villain while her creator suffers a suicidal breakdown.

 

Remember that Izanami is a byproduct of the emotions from whoever is inside the Master Unit and since part of the girl writing the book pretty much wants to be punished and killed for repeating all those tragedies with no solution, it's likely that Izanami is driven to make her creator kill herself for good and end everything once and for all.