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Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

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On 1.06.2016 at 8:07 AM, MaximusMurkimus said:

If she's trying to destroy the Master Unit in the first place, why does she need to put Noel back in it?

I had similiar thoughts but on a different matter:

- If she wants destroy the entire universe and/or bring "everything" into nothingness then it would be better to find a way to destroy the Azure itself instead of Master Unit. Especially that Master Unit "isn't working" now. I suppose that it might be impossible cause even the most nihilistic villains (more of them were seeking the power) in this game's universe didn't give any clue/hint/whatever about solution like this.

However like H@x0r said Izanami was born from negatives emotions which "The Girl" possesses as well.

10 hours ago, Vanagandr said:

Wow, I just notice, there are currently 33 confirmed character for BBCF, 5 of them is Saya and her various clone, that's 15% of the roster ... WTF MORI?

  1. Lambda - 11
  2. Mu - 12
  3. Nu - 13
  4. Noel
  5. Izanami (Saya)

The last one is specific because she has "a role" as playable Saya too. I mean that more or less fans wanted her  and "Noel is just Noel" (even if she was replacing Saya in some way) so players have an occasion to play with the last member of this sibling (+ she seems to be a little OP what is making this role completed).

On 1.06.2016 at 4:13 AM, Yoshirocks92 said:

Mu-12 hadn't survived that explosion but in some of them Mu did survive.

Many people speaking about it but I am not sure and I haven't ever been how these timelines are canonical and where is the source about it (Did I forget something from games?). I mean where she survived except of several Calamity Trigger alternate endings (because I am counting both CT game and CT MC only in this term) which are focused on idea "What if?" and bring several clues but not the possibly scenario of other timelines. For example:

Spoiler

in the one of Ragna's Alternate Endings (one of the most depressing ending in the BB series by the way) he and Nu fused after the battle and... formed Black Beast killed Noel -> what is the worst Ragna was conscious but he couldn't do anything (similiar thing to berserk-state in the CP).

I know the BlazBlue mainly follows the theory that every choice creates alternate universe but probably in none of them Mu survived. However all these resets, choices etc. were necessary because with each loop the disortion became bigger and finally reached an enough point to made a possibility for Noel's birth (RIP English).

Oh and it's easy to confuse with conceptions like loop, timeline, alternate, multiverse, time paradox, omnipotent etc. There are some popular stories in which even creators confused themselves or provided baseless/hilarious explanations at the end of plot so I dropped this "time travel term" a long time ago. BB Universe's story it's the only one which I can tolerate time travels  because the rest is enjoyable: heroes, size and complexity of world and several other factors. 

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On 5/31/2016 at 10:13 PM, Yoshirocks92 said:

in all of the other timeloops  Mu-12 hadn't survived that explosion but in some of them Mu did survive.

Where does everyone get the idea that Noel only survived in the main timeline? The number of timelines with Noel far outnumber the ones without her. Look at CT. Every single Arcade Mode, and every individual branch of Story Mode that features Noel is from a different time loop. The number of ones where she dies are far less (hence why Hazama was so pissed that Makoto ruined his plans in Slight Hope because it had such rare circumstances).

5 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

Oh and it's easy to confuse with conceptions like loop, timeline, alternate, multiverse, time paradox, omnipotent etc. There are some popular stories in which even creators confused themselves or provided baseless/hilarious explanations at the end of plot so I dropped this "time travel term" a long time ago. BB Universe's story it's the only one which I can tolerate time travels  because the rest is enjoyable: heroes, size and complexity of world and several other factors. 

Except the cause of every single possibility in CT is explicitly the time loop reset by Amaterasu after Take-Mikazuchi destroys Kagutsuchi, that is it. There is no "alternate universe possibility" to explain it away because the time loop locked all possibility into an eternal cycle. Every single time we see Noel HAS to be a different Phase with her in it. This is further proven because several times she sees into other timelines and she herself is in them. Specifically this happens in the Remix Heart Gaiden (which is part of the main timeline), where she sees herself involved in a version of Carl's CS Gag Reel, so canonically she has been in multiple timelines. It's not Noel's existence in the True Ending timeline that is the key to her breaking out, it is the specific actions she takes in that one timeline.

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33 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

Where does everyone get the idea that Noel only survived in the main timeline?

I guess that Yoshirocks92 was thinking about Noel but just used "Mu" name. I am the one who is questioning Noel's surviving in different timelines and whining abut this as well :cool: However this idea would make "things" much more understandable -> I mean if Noel had survived only in the one timeline her role as "the chosen one"/privileged character would be easier to realize. Especially "The Origin" part cause it seems that relation between Noel-Amaterasu is similiar to Jin-Hakumen.

Stories presented both in the Arcade and Story Mode in the CT are very interesting and they give some hints but I have never counted them. However thanks for explanation because I forgot about Remix Heart Gaiden part (I suppose this is the one of episode in the CP): I have been slowly refreshing the story recently cause I definitely was more focused on gameplay and online battles.

55 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

"alternate universe possibility"

I had the "Bloodedge Experience" on my mind. Of course the BE story is set before the time loop but it seems that past events for several characters from BE had a different course of action in the BB universe. I am not going to think if there is a possiblity to make some mess in the BE world future (It depends how the CF will end + Relius existence) because it's just too wild speculation.

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4 minutes ago, Kenji Harima said:

I guess that Yoshirocks92 was thinking about Noel but just used "Mu" name. I am the one who is questioning Noel's surviving in different timelines and whining abut this as well :cool: However this idea would make "things" much more understandable -> I mean if Noel had survived only in the one timeline her role as "the chosen one"/privileged character would be easier to realize. Especially "The Origin" part cause it seems that relation between Noel-Amaterasu is similiar to Jin-Hakumen.

Yes that's what I was going with.

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Hey Ogiga, Zedar, Toxin, do you think Es' appearance in the middle of the story mode will be a turning point because some very important things and events will start happening from that point? Also, will Es guide Ragna and others to the Gate of the Azure after Izanami is beaten or during the fight?

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Well depends only Ragna is allowed and I guess turning points would be huge plot twists and shocking revelations.

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We don't really what will happen to Izanami they can't kill her unless Noel is killed but my question is why not destroy the now empty body in Amaterasu???? How did Izanami damage the Amaterasu Unit in CS true.

 

Also looking Izanami's ukemi animations and her other get up animations have her in a doll like matter I mean one of them when she is getting up(no buttons pressed) have her float back up in a marionette like fashion.

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Noel surviving is pretty rare, sure there's timelines where she is alive but she died in most by either nu or some other character ( Carl, Jin) But her survival was key to breaking the loop. Though Takemikazuchi's blast differ in one of the timelines according to Hakumen, Ikaruga was Annilhilated not just severe damage. But it was weakened by something perhaps Amaterasu had something to do with it.

 

And maybe Amaterasu possessed mu while she was in the boundary being tempered or maybe Mu's body was "Empty" at the time as the Mu we see now according to Amane is her powers a manifestation of sorts similar to Izanami being the girls manifestation of her drive. But Noel in Mu's ending doesn't want the power and has possibly remembered everything about  "her past" 

But if she is the Original Toucher then is that the OPFD in the master unit, or the Original Toucher???

But anything related to the Master Unit is not human. From Saya to Nu. 

Saya looks eerily like the girl in the Amaterasu unit also.

Saya does look like she had time to grow though as a flash back of her are very young looking, like a baby or toddler.

She was found In a Lab with Ragna and Jin by Jubei. So what if artificial humans like possibly Ragna and prime field devices need time to grow I doubt Izanami would possess a young toddler or baby. And PFD/ artificial humans are capable of growing afterall. 

BTW how much control does Saya have she can react and hold back Izanami but can't seem to gain much control I know she is conscious if she can hold back Izanami. But she can't seem to really talk with others or call for help, I feel bad for her. She isn't doing this of her own will, but is just being puppeteered by Izanami.

 

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10 hours ago, NoelChan101 said:

Saya looks eerily like the girl in the Amaterasu unit also.

Saya does look like she had time to grow though as a flash back of her are very young looking, like a baby or toddler.

Saya might be a Prime Field Device:

  • According to Rachel in Chronophantasma Saya's body is the crystalization of seithr
  • Saya has an amazing potential to use Ars Magus (or even Ars Armagus)
  • On the Chronophantasma Material Collection cover there is a black coffin on the backround. If you zoom it there is an interesting sign. However it's incomplete: "M***kumo ** 01 **ya". If the -01- was created as the first Murakumo (why Murakumo???) and it contacted with god, collect the data and obatin "Power of The Eye" (and became "Successor of the Azure") then an another Murakumo sign above "The Girl" head it's more confusing. I will back to it later.
  • BlazBlue follows on statement that destroyed isn't the same as killed (According to Ragna when he was fighting with Nu-13 and Cauldrons: easy to destroy but without power of the Azure it's impossible to kill). 01 was destroyed (not killed) by the Zero-Type Izaoyi and next thrown to the Boundary.
  • The most important factor -> Saya was used by Relius as a base for later Murakumo Units.

I think it can be assumed that she is PFD for this point but without any number (and definitely she isn't a zeroth as well). I won't stick easily with "01"  because:

  • These informations aren't enough to point out does she is a real 01 or just a copy of 01 or other PFD or real PFD (that's why "might be" in the beginning).
  • If she was the first Murakumo (Murakumos are Prime Field Devices as well) who did contact wtih god then what did happen to her "Power of The Eye"? Or she is just this "Alpha" Murakumo which process of smelting into Kusanagi was stopped by the Black Beast interruption so she remain in the Boundary.
  • If her memories weren't shattered by the Boundary then who did seal them?
  • If she is the real one then why she is a kid in the CT? Of course there is an idea that she traveled through the Boundary, loss her memories and was found in the future so she could be hibernated in this lab for some time (the same Ragna and Jin before Jubei released them. It was never stated (I think) how the scientiest were keeping siblings)
  • Why Ragna is the oldest? Even if he might be some mixed organism between PFD, human + possesses Azure Grimoire and who knows what else then it would be strange that he is artificially the oldest one (However it's possible cause Relius created Hazama as an adult).

In flashbacks she was presented as a kid and adolescent not the baby nor toddler :) I would add that Terumi attacked the church when the siblings were adolescents.

10 hours ago, NoelChan101 said:

But if she is the Original Toucher then is that the OPFD in the master unit, or the Original Toucher???

"The Origin" is the first being who contacted with Master Unit then linked with it and became a wielder. Prime Field  Device or not definitely couldn't be a human because they can't survive in the Boundary + the Azure power would destroy human body and mind. Like I said before -01- contacted with Amaterasu too, obtain "The Power of the Eye" but as you see it isn't necessary to replace "The Origin" and become a new god even if you are the "Eye of the Azure".

Still shi**y sign in the core of Master Unit is intriguing me -> if Noel is "The Origin" it could be counted as Mu-12 but it's farfetched. Another disorted of time? Even in the Original Timeline? Body of "The Origin" seems to be destroyed too so... meh I will forfeit other speculation this time.

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Majority of Calamity Trigger was retcon so I don't why we are using those plot-points to justify Noel existence. CTR is the only one that really matters which from what I know Noel survival is  consider a miracle in that and her existence i treated as something that has not happen in any of the other loops before that which contradicts CT story mode that has her surivive in many time-loops.

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Zedar90, I think the first one-third of the story mode will recap many of the arcade mode events before moving on to Es' appearance. Also, 40+ hours could mean any number such as 52, 60, 72, 90, or 120 cause they said the story mode would have triple the story content from the last game. What are your thoughts on this?

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On 4.06.2016 at 1:44 AM, JRH said:

Also, 40+ hours could mean any number such as 52, 60, 72, 90, or 120 cause they said the story mode would have triple the story content from the last game.

Your question wasn't directed to me but personally I think that even if the story would have 200+ hours it wouldn't be boring :) Events from the arcade brought several different and interesting plots so it would be great if they explain and extend  the majority of them. Except of story from Ragna perspective and his origin I would like to see some additions in the "Story Mode": 

  • Terumi origin + his possibly new vessel
  • "The Girl" origin
  • Nine transformation + her idea to create something from all Nox Nyctores (she is much more like hmm anti-hero?)
  • Some stories which would be concentrate on the past (Sankishin origin, new idea about "will of the Azure")
  • What did happen to Saya all this time and who she is?
  • Naoto backstory's (for players who haven't read novels or haven't been able to)
  • Naoto actions which he is going to do not only to save his own world but also in the conflict within Embryo (he is entitled as well)
  • Es role except of being the "Scary gatekeeper"

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Ogiga, I know I am saying this a lot but I am sure that Nine will reconsider destroying the world not only because Es, who is her first friend is getting involved but also Celica seems to have reminded her that Ragna was the one who gave her a chance to save Celica when no one else would. Since Celica convinced Nine that Ragna will heal the world, we will see her response in the Story Mode which is her asking Ragna to prove to her he can heal the broken world by beating her. This means that she will be sure that he is ready for whatever she saw in the boundary because she now trusts him as a friend. There will probably be a recap of the arcade mode stuff which will comprise one-third of the story mode that leads up to Es' big appearance.

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Guys, could anyone please answer my post, it is really good stuff to speculate on. The arcade mode stuff that may comprise the first one-third of the story mode will lead to Es' big appearance and the redemption of Nine because I am sure she will change her mind due to Es' being her first friend.

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1 hour ago, JRH said:

Guys, could anyone please answer my post, it is really good stuff to speculate on. The arcade mode stuff that may comprise the first one-third of the story mode will lead to Es' big appearance and the redemption of Nine because I am sure she will change her mind due to Es' being her first friend.

There's nothing left to speculate on. We've discussed Es's role in relation to Nine a dozen times already. It's a pretty likely thing to happen considering Lost: Memories and we'll just have to wait and see.

 

28 minutes ago, churchblue said:

When I said that what if Noel was Es's daughter, I didn't mean biologically related.

Then what else could you possibly mean? Noel wasn't adopted by Es. Besides Es doesn't even exist in the main BlazBlue timeline. The XBlaze timeline is an alternate possibility where the Wadatsumi Incident occurred, which didn't happen in Watashi's (Nine's) timeline. It is explicitly stated that Es would never have been born without the Wadatsumi Incident, or at the very least any version of her type of Prime Field (if they were made at all) wouldn't be the same person we know. The closest possible connection is that the Manifestation Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices (Es) were the basis for the Dimension Boundary Contact Prime Field Devices (Kiiro) which were than the basis for the Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices (Noel) and even that is pretty separated. We still have no idea what Noel being the "Original Contact Maker" means about her and how that can work with Es having also touched the Master Unit but the concept of "daughter" in any form is completely unrelated.

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18 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

There's nothing left to speculate on. We've discussed Es's role in relation to Nine a dozen times already. It's a pretty likely thing to happen considering Lost: Memories and we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Then what else could you possibly mean? Noel wasn't adopted by Es. Besides Es doesn't even exist in the main BlazBlue timeline. The XBlaze timeline is an alternate possibility where the Wadatsumi Incident occurred, which didn't happen in Watashi's (Nine's) timeline. It is explicitly stated that Es would never have been born without the Wadatsumi Incident, or at the very least any version of her type of Prime Field (if they were made at all) wouldn't be the same person we know. The closest possible connection is that the Manifestation Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices (Es) were the basis for the Dimension Boundary Contact Prime Field Devices (Kiiro) which were than the basis for the Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices (Noel) and even that is pretty separated. We still have no idea what Noel being the "Original Contact Maker" means about her and how that can work with Es having also touched the Master Unit but the concept of "daughter" in any form is completely unrelated.

OK Ogiga, I just wanted to be sure on it because I am positive it will happen.

P.S. Did you know that Mori said on the Dengeki stream that CF's story mode would be 1.5 times bigger than CP? Could it mean that it will last 60 or 90 hours?

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11 hours ago, JRH said:

P.S. Did you know that Mori said on the Dengeki stream that CF's story mode would be 1.5 times bigger than CP? Could it mean that it will last 60 or 90 hours?

Maybe it was wrong use of words, Mori said it's CP * 1.5 = which would make it around 45 hours? Which is around what Amazon says: "A 40+ hour story mode with fully animated cut scenes pushes the boundaries of fighting game narratives".

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9 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Maybe it was wrong use of words, Mori said it's CP * 1.5 = which would make it around 45 hours? Which is around what Amazon says: "A 40+ hour story mode with fully animated cut scenes pushes the boundaries of fighting game narratives".

I am not sure Zedar, but Mori did say the story mode would be longer than he intended due to Naoto's and Es' involvement. We will have to wait for July to find out more about it.

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Just now, JRH said:

Mori did say the story mode would be longer than he intended due to Naoto's and Es' involvement.

Where did he say this? I have no recollection of him ever saying that.
All I've heard on the Dengeki stream was that he thought that CP's story mode was simply too long and he wanted to make it shorter and yet in the end it became longer.

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Guys do you think that if the story mode images we saw are actually flashbacks, the story mode will continue where the Act 3 Arcade left off. I don't see why they wouldn't change things up by making the story mode occur after the arcade mode when they are splitting it into 3 parts. I guess we will have to wait until October 6 and new info to find out for sure.

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I'm just glad Ragna and Jin finally have a true reason to clash with each other. Remaking the world free of the tyranny of a greater power vs accepting the world as it is with its faults... that's pretty big actually, not helped that Jin's plan needs Noel dead something Rags isn't gonna allow. It gives a much needed substance to their previously incredebly shallow rivalry. Lol, I wonder if this entire deal will start bringing up heart to heart conversations between the brothers as they fillibuster about their ideologies XD.

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