Chaoschao222

Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

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^Well, I can see to your theories, but yeah, its all one convoluted thing. But yeah, at least I was correct about Es being in the tube (by Relius), though I thought in Amane's AH, she would turn back to Nobody, but it seems its not the case (just the pudding memory). >.>

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5 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Funny, I've never heard this one before. I apologize in advance since you say you support it but I think this is even more ridiculous than Terumi = Unomaru/Ripper/Kiri. Touya and Terumi's personalities are light years apart and nothing could happen that would cause the kindhearted Touya to become a sadistic monster like Terumi. Even if Touya were to turn the blatant parallels between the two and how Touya reacts when he learns he's not human heavily imply that he would end up the same as Sechs, who also acts nothing like Terumi. Not to mention the fact that Terumi's nature as a spirit seems completely irreconcilable with Touya literally being the Original Grimoire in human form. There is also the two biggest issue with any Terumi = *insert XBlaze character here* that can never be solved. One, Terumi has been around for a long time. Terumi has had time to master Magic and Alchemy, be the most knowledgeable person about the Boundary ever, figure out how to create the Azure Grimoire and occupy the Susanoo Unit. There is no indication that Touya could use Magic at all (if so why wouldn't Mei teach him) and since Magic use is hereditary and cannot be used by everyone like Ars Magus, Terumi would not know Magic if he was Touya. Also, don't forget that the Susanoo Unit was excavated from Japan at some point in the distant past and was then taken by the Alucard clan until it was given to Jin during the Dark War. The Susanoo Unit could not have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. Touya couldn't possibly have spent any time in the Unit when he is from just 50 years before Hakumen. And we can't go with the idea of Touya having traveled back in time through the Cauldron to have those experiences because that leads to the second issue with an XBlaze character being Terumi. The XBlaze world is completely sealed off from the rest of the BlazBlue universe by the World of the Tsukuyomi. The Phantom Field is still in place so no one could get in or out of that world via the Boundary and Touya's stated goal at the end of Lost: Memories was to destroy all of the Gates so nobody could use the Boundary for evil. There is zero chance of Terumi coming from this possibility. It's also not possible for Terumi to be an alternate Touya from the main timeline because in that world the Wadatsumi Incident, which is the thing that created Touya in the first place, never happened.

Again I apologize but this theory really has nothing to stand on. Plus, that line from Terumi doesn't actually hint at a connection to Touya in the slightest. Those terms suggest he has a connection with the Mercury's and the Magic Guild/Ten Sages far more than they tease anything about Touya.

Nah, don't worry, I said I support it, but it's more like "I wouldn't really mind if they somehow did this", I mostly like it because of how absurd it is lol
That part about the Susanoo Unit caught my attention though: was it really excavated that long ago? For some reason I've always thought the Mitsurugi Agency found it while investigating the Cauldron in Wadatsumi or something like that

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19 hours ago, Danaiden said:

Images of the quotes of and against Es in English (except Bang), from Dreamolition Derby 3 in Munich (taken by me *cought*).

I find it funny that Es' victory quote against Bullet emphasizes how weak Bullet is. Bullet truly is the Yamcha of Blazblue.

16 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

Azrael is officially my favorite antagonist ever in this series. Amazing how he could show up so late (CP) and manage to win me over in less than 1 full game whereas characters like Litchi, Arakune, and Rachel haven't been able to do that in 3~4. And just look at this badass mofo. Most characters either express intrigue or outright terror at Es' presence/existence. Azrael though? The man is so giddy at the prospect of fighting her and later the vaguely mentioned gods, you can practically see the bloodlust dripping from his Tarzan hairdo. Even Es notes how insanely dangerous he is.

I never cared for Azrael myself. He appears to be pretty one-dimensional; his only goal and interest is fighting strong enemies, which is as generic a motivation as a fighting game character can get. Also he has no backstory, the source of his powers is never explained and he has pretty much no connection to the rest of the cast.

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2 hours ago, Leiopelma said:

I never cared for Azrael myself. He appears to be pretty one-dimensional; his only goal and interest is fighting strong enemies, which is as generic a motivation as a fighting game character can get. Also he has no backstory, the source of his powers is never explained and he has pretty much no connection to the rest of the cast.

Generic as his motivation is, it's something. :v::v::v:

 

The guy has an unexplained insatiable bloodlust, which, I can imagine could of spawn from one of two things:

 

Either he had a different goal in mind and just became addicted to beating the shit out of tough opponents along the way. Granted, at least he's not as ruthless to go after those he know are weaker than him.

Spoiler

[the guy is REALLY against bullying for crying out loud]

Or

He had this bloodlust from the minute he was born. Probably a side effect to his inhuman raw strength, which raised a question of whether or not he was human.

 

For every character with no explanation, I try to fill in the blanks until I get the answers on their origins. It may not exactly give satisfaction, but better than racking my brain over how they don't have an origin told yet. [Hell, just look at Ragna, Jin, Saya and Terumi. We don't know jack shit about where exactly did they come from before their tales began]

 

But I can see why Azrael doesn't quite fill your cup of tea. Hell, I've been having conflicted thoughts on Nine, though I really want to love her as a character.

Spoiler

On one hand, I just love how twisted she is now, and just oh my sweet bae, she's got a smokin' hot bod and outfit to compliment her change from a hero to a twisted wizard and she looks so much fun to play as~♥

On the other hand, Siscon, much, Ms. "Protect Celica and not Listen to Her"? Seriously, you could use some therapy from Mr. Bloodedge who's practically gone through the same shit as you.

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2 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

Generic as his motivation is, it's something. :v::v::v:

But I can see why Azrael doesn't quite fill your cup of tea. Hell, I've been having conflicted thoughts on Nine, though I really want to love her as a character.

I guess that in a story as convoluted as that of Blazblue, a character with a motivation that's this straightforward can be seen as a breath of fresh air. And the way he rampages through the plot like a bull in a china shop is rather funny. I don't think that this makes him an interesting character though and I feel it rather trivializes the other characters' struggles to have someone this strong running around doing whatever he wants.

Comparing Azrael to Ragna and his siblings, we know a lot more about their backstories than we do about Azrael. As you say, we don't even know if he's human, though I really doubt it. By the way, I don't think he's against bullying or picking on the weak, since he obviously derived great pleasure from the suffering of Bullet's squad who were all much weaker than him.

I find Nine to be more interesting because despite being really mean, aggressive and self-centered, she ended up being a hero because she wanted to protect her little sister. Her disposition was more fit for a villain, which is what she now ended up as. It will be interesting to see if Celica will be able to reverse this, since Nine no longer displays a shred of morality and is ready to kill everyone in the world, including her husband and daughter who she did honestly care for in the past, except for Celica.

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24 minutes ago, Leiopelma said:

I guess that in a story as convoluted as that of Blazblue, a character with a motivation that's this straightforward can be seen as a breath of fresh air. And the way he rampages through the plot like a bull in a china shop is rather funny. I don't think that this makes him an interesting character though and I feel it rather trivializes the other characters' struggles to have someone this strong running around doing whatever he wants.

I think the main thing that makes Azrael sort of uninteresting is not really his motivation, but rather the fact that he only was around for one game as of now. I mean, look, Terumi for example is no Hamlet either: the guy has very little backstory and his entire characterization can be summed up as "evil psychopath". But he has a crucial role in the plot and three games to grow on us. Azrael just shows up in the middle of CP and has too little screentime to establish anything other than "Well, he's really strong and really likes to fight". He's badass, that's for sure, but that alone is not enough to make him interesting to everyone.

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18 minutes ago, In&Out said:

I think the main thing that makes Azrael sort of uninteresting is not really his motivation, but rather the fact that he only was around for one game as of now. I mean, look, Terumi for example is no Hamlet either: the guy has very little backstory and his entire characterization can be summed up as "evil psychopath". But he has a crucial role in the plot and three games to grow on us. Azrael just shows up in the middle of CP and has too little screentime to establish anything other than "Well, he's really strong and really likes to fight". He's badass, that's for sure, but that alone is not enough to make him interesting to everyone.

I agree that Terumi's origins are currently unknown and that his characterization is pretty simple. However he is also a schemer and is able to develop long-term plans as well as manipulate other people. This allows him to do more interesting things than Azrael, who instead just runs around punching people or things. Terumi is able to be the main villain and to be highly involved with the plot because of those traits which Azrael lacks.

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Did Kokonoe remember Nine all that much before she was thrown into the Boundary by Terumi? I think Jubei had her sent away as a baby and that's why she hates him, but she seems to reference Nine vividly despite them never meeting properly as adults until now, and vice-versa.

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1 hour ago, Leiopelma said:

By the way, I don't think he's against bullying or picking on the weak, since he obviously derived great pleasure from the suffering of Bullet's squad who were all much weaker than him.

To be fair, he could also be doing it to push her buttons and have her go really unhinged against him. He did the same with Ragna when he threatened to rip Celica apart, only showing disappointment when Ragna was able to suppress his Azure Grimoire. What I personally like about him more than say Terumi, is that Azrael (while indeed vicious) is that his targets are more often than not people who are capable of handling themselves in a fight. To put it into perspective, Terumi is the sort of guy who might go around eating children for the giggles. To Azrael though, those children probably don't even register on his Combadar (combat radar). Yeah he's still every bit a monstrous force and all, certainly not above probing opponents, but he's got at least some shred of personal honor.

50 minutes ago, Leiopelma said:

This allows him to do more interesting things than Azrael, who instead just runs around punching people or things. Terumi is able to be the main villain and to be highly involved with the plot because of those traits which Azrael lacks.

Though in fairness, ever since he got onto the stage, Azrael's been plotting his own agenda. Granted his agenda is still very much: 

Step 1: Find super powerful individual(s).
Step 2: Fight individual(s) listed in step 1.
Step 3: PROFIT!
Step 4: Repeat steps 1~3 unless otherwise beaten by opponent.

I mean let's be honest here: in CP he was tossed in by Sector 7 to act as their attack dog and even then he wasn't really planning on following their orders. CF rolls around and he just brute forces his way into the plot, free of the "leash" placed on him. Since then he's deducted what is going on in the Embryo, made an alliance with Izanami in order to get what he wants and is now in the process of both making a Black Beast to fight and THEN entering the world of the gods to fight them as well. The man may be a battle maniac but he's far from unintelligent. He's capable of biding his time, scoping out who is the best person to find in order to achieve his desire and then making preparations. Straightforward as his goals may be, that doesn't mean he cannot be presented in an interesting light with the cards he's given,

I can respect your opinion that he's not your cup of tea. I am not going to make posts in an effort to change your mind. Just understand that what you find uninteresting about him, is pure joy for someone like me who is tired of Hazama/Terumi and Relius being untouchable simply because they're just that prepared (or in Terumi's case: saved by an ass-pull on how Time Killer didn't do what is it supposed to do immediately).

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As a big fan of this character, I hope that Mori give an explanation of what is azrael (powers, origin etc.) because, at present,this character is the most out of place in this series.

PS: I read again the summaries of act 1 and 2, I noticed that Azrael knows things, or is in possession of information which in theory should not know or would not supposed to know.

In act 1 during the discussion with Nine she surprise that Azrael defines Izanami a god.

And, in Act 2, (hoping I've read that right, my English is not the best :( ) he says it is aware that Relius was manipulating sector seven in the shadows.

Did I miss something?

 

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I just want to understand how the hell the Mad Dog escaped again! Kokonoe trapped him in CP and in CF he came back out of nowhere. I like really much the character, but how he escaped again if his new prison is stronger than the previous?

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Azrael is like Akuma. Not inherently evil per se, but a chaotic force of nature that cares only for strength and the thrill of battle. But, neither are willing to take on just anyone. It seems that way because they fight the cast, but, both characters will actually only take on those that they deem as strong. Those who are seen as too weak will simply be left alone (like Akuma helping children or denying Gen a rematch because Gen is fatally ill).

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6 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

I just want to understand how the hell the Mad Dog escaped again! Kokonoe trapped him in CP and in CF he came back out of nowhere. I like really much the character, but how he escaped again if his new prison is stronger than the previous?

The prisons were completely different. The first one trapped him in a room at near absolute zero temperatures that made it impossible for him to move (but didn't kill him because Azrael). The CP prison just trapped him in a space between dimensions. Which Azrael was able to punch his way out of... and then punch his way into the Embryo because he's just that freaking badass.

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8 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

The prisons were completely different. The first one trapped him in a room at near absolute zero temperatures that made it impossible for him to move (but didn't kill him because Azrael). The CP prison just trapped him in a space between dimensions. Which Azrael was able to punch his way out of... and then punch his way into the Embryo because he's just that freaking badass.

But wasn't mentioned the CP prison was stronger than his former prison? Dafuq! How someone punch dimensions? Goddammit, Azrael, I know that you hit like a truck but this is ridiculous! It sounds just as a lame excuse about how he was able to escape, honestly...

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33 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

But wasn't mentioned the CP prison was stronger than his former prison? Dafuq! How someone punch dimensions? Goddammit, Azrael, I know that you hit like a truck but this is ridiculous! It sounds just as a lame excuse about how he was able to escape, honestly...

Not that I recall. It's certainly a more elaborate prison, but stronger is debatable (giant freezer vs. isolated dimensional space). His first prison was, like Ogiga mentioned, near absolute zero temperature which were designed to freeze his atoms/molecules/whatever in place, rendering him unable to move (even though all it really did was make him sleep). His second one though, could be argued against in multiple ways. For one, unlike the former, it let him have free range of movement so he was free to pound away at it until something caved in. Another reason could be the Embryo emerging, thus weakening the original foundation enough for him to break out of it. Additionally, unlike his prison in Sector 7, the new one wasn't monitored properly (the former no doubt had security cameras routinely monitor his location). Of course, much of this is speculation on my front, but given the circumstances, it could be any number of factors. I just prefer the one where he's escaping just because he's that badass enough to do it.

Man, can you imagine a Kagutsuchi junior football team being coached by him?
Coach!Azrael: "Alright maggots, let's see blood out there. Run them down! I want to hear them cry for their mommy and spit teeth in between the beatings".
Kid1: "But coach Azrael, we're only 10".
Coach!Azrael: "When I was your age punk, I was grinding magnetite to use as toothpaste. Now drink your sea salt milk and devour your radiation steak! Until you can deflect bullets with your pecks, you are not leaving this stadium".

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BlazBlue Logic No. Mad Dog: One does not simply contain Azrael... And you don't contain Azrael, Azrael let's himself be contained. Then he simply punches his way out and goes back to doing his own thing. He's so damn powerful, he could fist a black hole, make it puke up an entire galaxy, and every planet in that galaxy would be inhabited by demon hell cats!

 

Alright, jokes aside, if the Mad Dog can throw a punch so hard that it causes destruction equal to a nuclear missile and is not even using an eigth of his power, one can only imagine how much destruction he can cause at full strength... And let's hope to the Azure that we don't ever have to witness that... Because everyone would be screwed, because he would probably punch so hard, he'll end up breaking the very fabric of reality, thus, causing the BlazBlue world and ours collide, and we all end up in the game, we'd all become involved in the crazy plot, become playable characters, have our crazy Drive, Overdrive, Distortion Drives, Exceed Accel, and Astral Heat, and our fates would be at the mercy of the great Mori...

 

The lesson here is: Azrael is an S-Class God Tier Badass. [Followed by Ragna, who is only God Tier level of badass] And you don't fuck with an S-Class God Tier Badass...

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Simple: Azrael is Chuck Norris' son.

Now seriously, given that Sector Seven was also created by Terumi, and he and Relius could do anything to it from the shadows, maybe when Terumi ordered the Sector Sevens admins to release Azrael, Terumi told hima lot of stuff.

 

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15 minutes ago, heavymetalmixer said:

Now seriously, given that Sector Seven was also created by Terumi, and he and Relius could do anything to it from the shadows, maybe when Terumi ordered the Sector Sevens admins to release Azrael, Terumi told hima lot of stuff.

Terumi didn't order anyone to release Azrael, the Sector Seven top brass did that on their own Azrael plays no part in Terumi's plan. Sector Seven wanted Azrael to get Ragna's Azure Grimoire, which Terumi obviously has no use for. Kokonoe makes it very clear that the Sector Seven leaders are being idiots playing with power they can't handle in an attempt to get something that would be useless to them anyway.

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1 hour ago, Luminos564 said:

I just prefer the one where he's escaping just because he's that badass enough to do it.

Honestly, I can't see how this is any different from Terumi suddenly being able to out-observe Time Killer, which you dismissed as a cheap handwave earlier. But hey, I am not nitpicking, if only because it's likely he actually is badass enough to do it :D

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9 hours ago, Leiopelma said:

I never cared for Azrael myself. He appears to be pretty one-dimensional; his only goal and interest is fighting strong enemies, which is as generic a motivation as a fighting game character can get. Also he has no backstory, the source of his powers is never explained and he has pretty much no connection to the rest of the cast.

If you compared Yamcha to Bullet then I will use another example from Dragon Ball ;) -> Think about Azrael as a Saiya-jin (maybe Vegeta before Frieza saga): cruel, simple-minded and proud. They might give him some backstory but now he is a more a neutral-ground villain. He doen't care about anything but the rest of the crew need to be worried about his actions. That's... quite awesome. He probably doesn't possess any grimoire but I won't be really surprised if he has some connotation with Black Beast (that crimson/red aura for nothing???). Of course it's a wild speculation based on very small detail. Don't take it serious. There are too many beings in the game who would be able to feel potential source of his power.

Another thought -> I think that Nine probably going to end as an anti-hero: Her priorities might change through the story. Even Ragna isn't so... obsessed(?) (hard to find much more proper word) about own sister.

17 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

The XBlaze world is completely sealed off from the rest of the BlazBlue universe by the World of the Tsukuyomi.

This theory (I mean Toya = Terumi) it's avoiding definitely too many facts from XB but still Terumi could meet with Ringo before XBlaze possibility became sealed.

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Seeing Es in CF means that The Xblaze world is no longer sealed off the possibly of Xblaze has been asorbed by the Blazblue world.

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10 minutes ago, Kenji Harima said:

IAnother thought -> I think that Nine probably going to end as an anti-hero: Her priorities might change through the story. Even Ragna isn't so... obsessed(?) (hard to find much more proper word) about own sister.

And what do we make of Carl??????? You know, Relius Jr. who's STILL trying to bring back his sister. As much as I despise the little guy for what he's doing, I still have some sympathy for him, but the big question I'm racking up in my brain is: How is Carl suppose to be dealt with before he completes his metamorphosis into a full on Relius Jr.?

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1 hour ago, In&Out said:

Honestly, I can't see how this is any different from Terumi suddenly being able to out-observe Time Killer, which you dismissed as a cheap handwave earlier. But hey, I am not nitpicking, if only because it's likely he actually is badass enough to do it :D

Honestly the only reason I dismiss Terumi being to do what he did after Time Killer was used on him is because the set-up was a perfect way to end that damn narcissistic spectre. Poetic even. Here lies Terumi, the smug little weed that got cut down like a bad habit despite all his scheming and contingency plans. But nope, out rolls CF and he's totally fine (minus a depleting time limit) making all the work that Haku-men, Valkenhayn, Trinity and so on did in CP a complete waste of time.

But I guess offing a villain in such a fashion is nowhere near dramatic enough, so the task will probably fall to Ragna as he unleashes all of his Spiral Power might to pound him into dust particles.

18 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

It's definitely because of them both being wielders of the Azure. Near half the cast's quotes against Es have them react to feeling the power of the Azure from her so it makes sense that the Azure Grimoire would react the strongest.

One thing I never understood about the Azure is that, why would it even need Es to act on its behalf? Since we know it is a sentient force and is indeed very powerful, shouldn't it be able to just, I dunno, undo basically anybody coming up to its gates? Then again, for the longest time, I equated the Azure to U-Do from Xenosaga which was also something like the collective subconscious of human thought that gained sentience but could not actually communicate with humans without driving them insane (so it had to use a human vessel instead).

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