Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[BlackYakuzu94]

17 hours ago, Fenris said:

You know... I think that one of the biggest problems with Blazblue's plot, especially now, is that Mori has a problem with just letting characters go (i.e., die). As such, he interweaves weird, twisty-turny reasons for their being there into the plot, which mucks things up. Huge, unnecessary game/plot-changing elements are created out of nowhere--weird shit like "self-observation"--just because Mori wanted a reason for why characters like Terumi, Celica, Lambda are still playable. Naoto is another weird case where it would've been more simple to just have him be a character from the past--simple as that--, but Mori probably ran into some contradictions or plot holes during his hours of brainstorming, so he came up the current convoluted explanation for Naoto's inclusion instead. I'm really starting to feel as though most of the plot was written around the gameplay.

This series, at the end of the day, is still a fighting game. As such, more thought and time will likely go into the gameplay and developing that before any additional story details are given. As such, the plot will probably suffer a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions justified by any changes to gameplay, which is why we have two Jins, Terumi's, and Noel's running around. 

I commend Mori for his efforts, but there's a reason most fighting game players just  straight up ignore any sort of plot and story and just play the game itself. Blazblue's plot is a prime example on why that's the case.

[Vulcan422]

On 4/6/2016 at 10:24 PM, Zedar90 said:

Hibiki finds Noel and tries to get rid of her. However, he can't cut her, it only goes through her. Even though he understands this is what Kokonoe meant with him not being able to kill her, he decides to continue to cut her until she dies(if I can't kill her, I'll continue until she dies).

Wow. Just...WOW. Hibiki is SERIOUSLY fucked up.

[Yoshirocks92]

20 hours ago, Vulcan422 said:

Wow. Just...WOW. Hibiki is SERIOUSLY fucked up.

I know right since Hibiki has just straight up lost it at this point. 

[GunBlazer]

On 5/4/2016 at 4:24 AM, Zedar90 said:

-Hibiki Story-

So much for being the playboy's collected, level-headed assistant, huh?

Silent men, like still water, are deep and dangerous.

[Ogiga99]

On April 6, 2016 at 1:00 PM, BlackYakuzu94 said:

This series, at the end of the day, is still a fighting game. As such, more thought and time will likely go into the gameplay and developing that before any additional story details are given. As such, the plot will probably suffer a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions justified by any changes to gameplay, which is why we have two Jins, Terumi's, and Noel's running around. 

I commend Mori for his efforts, but there's a reason most fighting game players just  straight up ignore any sort of plot and story and just play the game itself. Blazblue's plot is a prime example on why that's the case.

How are those really inconsistencies or contradictions? Having two different versions exist alongside each other isn't a problem if it fits the narrative. I doubt Jin and Hakumen was in any way subject to the gameplay because that was present in the first game. Neither character necessarily had to even exist in the story and Mori could have just as easily gave Hakumen a different backstory from the get go if he so chose. Hazama and Terumi were never the same person to begin with so splitting them is fine and made them more unique. I will give you that the Noel/Mu split is confusing as hell but we don't have all the details yet so it's unfair to call plot hole at this time. The only one that actually has problems at the moment is the one you didn't mention, Tsubaki and Izayoi. It's hard to tell if they're the same person or not because they both had encounters with Nine and Izanami twice without the implication that of having met them before, so the only option besides two people is more complicated memory shenanigans than normal in Act 1 and 2. Regardless, splitting the characters, especially if it is woven into the plot, sounds better to me than just randomly having Jin and Devil Jin or Ryu and Evil Ryu exist at the same time.

Honestly the only way gameplay really affect the story is that it keeps anyone from actually dying and that it was pretty much the basis for all the insane time travel/infinite possibilities/reality warping/alternate universes stuff. No one's allowed to stay dead so that they can be kept in the roster for the next game and need a canon Arcade mode if they're in the game (meaning story importance is as much a factor as keeping the roster). Considering this keeps characters people (like from both a story and character perspective) from being abandoned it seems like a win-win to me. Besides, is Celica coming to the future (even as a time-displaced clone) really that difficult or strange an element? Besides, "character winds up in the present because they fell into the Boundary that connects time and space" isn't that different different from what plenty of other games have done to justify bringing in characters (looking at you Order-Sol). Other than Lambda (who I honestly think did not need to come back since she's way too similar to Nu and was originally just a temporary Nu replacement anyway) the only character who has actually supposedly "died" in the main timeline is Terumi (Platinum and Hazama were an explicit case of never found the body) and everyone hated that because it was so anti-climactic and he was too important to the plot to die like that, so isn't "Self-Observation" (which was already established as something Terumi could do in Wheel of Fortune) in every way preferable?

BlazBlue isn't why people ignore the plot in fighting games (they've been doing that long before 2008), it's exactly the opposite. Most fighting game stories never try in the first place, but BlazBlue cares a lot about it's story which is pretty damn unique. All the insane stuff is there because it's trying to make the story matter and is pretty much the very core of the series. In most fighting game every character has an individual story (often with a pretty throwaway plot or a disposable villain of the game) where they reach the end and are the one to win the tournament/save the world. Of course, come the next game only one character's story (the main character) is going to be canon and everyone else's doesn't matter. BlazBlue has all the various resets precisely so that it can say "yes, all of these things from the last game actually happened." Granted not every character remembers all the events, but considering most of stories and Arcades do contain elements that are part of the canon timeline even if not directly shown in the True Ending (Ragna meeting Tao in his alternate CT path, Bang's CT story ending with him fighting Hakumen, and all the events before the first fight and after the last fight in every character's CS story), or are remembered despite the reset (Rachel's super-shippy CT ending and Azrael's CP Arcade) it's a much better plan than just telling players to completely ignore 90% of the plot because it's not going to matter in the future and at least it has a singular narrative that is progressing towards an actual end.

[Stryker115]

On 4/5/2016 at 5:01 AM, Luminos564 said:

One thing I do not comprehend though is how Jin/Haku-men and possibly Tsubaki figure that killing Ragna eliminates the threat of the Azure Grimoire? We know that Haku-men decapitated him back at the conclusion of the Dark War and the body still retained enough power to graft itself onto present-Ragna and start the cycle over again. What's to stop someone like Hazama or Terumi from grabbing the appendage, sticking it on a random street urchin and watch them go wild?

Two words

 

Transplant rejection

[Volt]

25 minutes ago, Stryker115 said:

Two words

 

Transplant rejection

That just speeds up the process.

[Stryker115]

2 hours ago, Volt said:

That just speeds up the process.

What process? All that means is that if it isn't Ragna that the AG is grafted onto then the unfortunate patient is instantly turned into Seithr and absorbed like all other living creatures with a soul.

The thing is the Azure Grimoire isn't corrupting Ragna but actually REVERTING him to his actual natural state. A Black Beast.

 

I'm curious about the Gate inside Ragna though

What if.. just a what if alright? What if the other side of it is the place where the Azure Shrine Maiden sealed away the ORIGINAL Black Beast?

[MaximusMurkimus]

*lightbulb*

What if the Azure Shrine Maiden is actually playing a part in all of this, from inside the Gate, potentially manipulating people to open the gate through Ragna and go "lolsup I'm evils nao"

XBlaze said that she inadvertently summoned it through the Gate...but what if that was the plan all along? Lock herself in with the Gate with the Black Beast and wait until the right time? People assumed she was dead, but this is BlazBlue, where a prerequisite to existing is to be either unkillable by normal means (Izanami, Rachel, Noel) killed one or several times over in an alternate timeline (Ragna, Nine, Terumi, Trinity, Tsubaki, Noel again,) or be put into that situation several times that you should've been dead (Makoto, Naoto, Hakumen, Jin, Noel once more)

I think we just found our potential final boss, y'all.

[Stryker115]

I still wanna know where Izanagi is

If its Ragna then that's cool

 

If not then Where the hell is He/It?

[MaximusMurkimus]

9 minutes ago, Stryker115 said:

I still wanna know where Izanagi is

If its Ragna then that's cool

 

If not then Where the hell is He/It?

All we know about a potential Izanagi is that Izanami acknowledges him in CP as "not a threat". Maybe if she's the Master Unit's dark side, Izanagi represents the side that wants to make things right, but hasn't been able to do so yet?

[NoelChan101]

Why does Izanami look similar to the Azure Shrine Maiden

I know Saya Terumi but.......

Izanami is familiar with Amanohokosaka sooooo.......

[MaximusMurkimus]

9 minutes ago, NoelChan101 said:

Why does Izanami look similar to the Azure Shrine Maiden

I know Saya Terumi but.......

Izanami is familiar with Amanohokosaka sooooo.......

I discarded that idea a while ago; the Amanohokosakas are working against the NOL if the war of Ikaraga was any indication. They also have matching purple eyes to go with the hair across generations on the women, while Saya T. and Izanami have those creepy red ones. Wouldn't mind being wrong, of course.

[NoelChan101]

Izanami is speculated to be Soul Eater drive manifested, made the red eyes is part of Soul Eater.

Also Izanami wants to put Noel back in Her original body but wouldn't Izanami also be affected,  she is

Amaterasu's drive which means in a scenario where she gets very close to the actual thing won't she also be "merged" with the Original Prime field Device. 

I would like to see how this goes in Story mode. 

I think this will come to consoles late this year

like November December 

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

That's hopeful thinking, realistically we won't see it until around this time next year. If we get a trailer for the console on E3 that would be the best sign.

[Ogiga99]

1 hour ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

*lightbulb*

What if the Azure Shrine Maiden is actually playing a part in all of this, from inside the Gate, potentially manipulating people to open the gate through Ragna and go "lolsup I'm evils nao"

XBlaze said that she inadvertently summoned it through the Gate...but what if that was the plan all along? Lock herself in with the Gate with the Black Beast and wait until the right time? People assumed she was dead, but this is BlazBlue, where a prerequisite to existing is to be either unkillable by normal means (Izanami, Rachel, Noel) killed one or several times over in an alternate timeline (Ragna, Nine, Terumi, Trinity, Tsubaki, Noel again,) or be put into that situation several times that you should've been dead (Makoto, Naoto, Hakumen, Jin, Noel once more)

I think we just found our potential final boss, y'all.

It's an interesting theory but there are a few flaws. One, the Gate the Azure Shrine Maiden opened is just the Wadatsumi Gate, a Cauldron, not this supposed gate to the world of the gods. Who knows how you open that. Two, it is beyond impossible for a human to just chill in the Boundary. They can survive trips through it but living in it just seems ridiculous. even if she was supposedly buddy-buddy with the Azure. Three, if she can chat with the Azure, the literal origin of everything, what on earth could have happened to make her go evil and want to dedtroy the world?

I really think people make too big a deal out of her.The only reason she is mentioned is to explain the Mei's abilities and the Amanohokosaka's duties, as well as explain how people knew about the Black Beast before 2099 and even this is a very minor conversation. Her being Izanami is already debunked and that was the only chance they might have had if they wanted to use her. Her being the final boss would be WAY more outside context than Izanami (even before we learned she's Amaterasu's Drive) and has no connection whatsoever to aby of the present events (aside from being Naoto's distant ancestor). In general the speculation about XBlaze characters being uber-important characters in BlazBlue has proven beyond fruitless and should be buried because it is far fetched and so detached from the main story. The "Sechs is working for Izanami" theory was disproved in Lost: Memories and with the two more plausible theories being proven false, it feels like grasping at straws to keep trying to force her in. This stuff with the Azure Shrine Maiden is no where as impissible, shallow, wrong and completely braindead stupid as "Unomaru/Ripper/Kiri is Terumi" but I fear it could get that way.

 

47 minutes ago, NoelChan101 said:

Why does Izanami look similar to the Azure Shrine Maiden

I know Saya Terumi but.......

Izanami is familiar with Amanohokosaka sooooo.......

Because all the girls we've seen connected to the Amanohokosaka clan have purple hair. That's where Says Terumi gets it from. But since Saya Terumi and Izanami are confirmed not to be the same person, it's just a similarity by association. Since the Azure Shrine Maiden has the same Amanohokosaka look as Saya Terumi, and Izanami looks the same as her because red herring and it's just another skin deep similarity between BB and BE to confuse Naoto (everyone tries to make this one so much more important when there are like a dozen of these same situations), Izanami looks the same as the Azure Shrine Maiden. Her knowing about the Amanohokosaka clan is perfectly logical since the clan is pretty recognizable. The Magic Guild has had relations with it for a long time so people connected to it like Terumi or Relius would have plenty of knowledge. Also Tenjo is a part of the Amanohokosaka clan so she obviously would know about the person she dethroned.

 

58 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

All we know about a potential Izanagi is that Izanami acknowledges him in CP as "not a threat". Maybe if she's the Master Unit's dark side, Izanagi represents the side that wants to make things right, but hasn't been able to do so yet?

I'm pretty sure the only time Izanagi is ever mentioned is when Izanami is giving her big sky projector speech and naming Homira the new Imperator. All she says is that "humanity created the Izanagi." The fact that she said "the Izanagi" as opposed to just Izanagi suggests it is a thing, not a person. But honestly who knows at this point.

 

17 minutes ago, NoelChan101 said:

Izanami is speculated to be Soul Eater drive manifested, made the red eyes is part of Soul Eater.

Also Izanami wants to put Noel back in Her original body but wouldn't Izanami also be affected,  she is

Amaterasu's drive which means in a scenario where she gets very close to the actual thing won't she also be "merged" with the Original Prime field Device.

Where does that speculation come from? Regardless of the specifics (why does it possess people if it could manifest on its own, why hasn't Izanami shown any signs of life draining powers) it's still false because we'l already know what she is, Amaterasu's Drive. She can't be both of those at the same time.

we don't know how exactly Izanami works but there is no reason to assume she would be affect by putting someone back into the Master Unit because she operated fine on her own when it was manned. Besides Izanami isn't the one who needs them to fuse, that's Terumi. She wants Noel dead so Amaterasu can be destroyed. Even if it would effect her, Izanami said many times in Act 2 that even if she were somehow destroyed, Doomsday would still come. Basically she's convinced she's already won so it doesn't matter to her of she doesn't live to see it because she knows it's going to happen anyway.

[TekkamanArk]

20 minutes ago, NoelChan101 said:

Izanami is speculated to be Soul Eater drive manifested, made the red eyes is part of Soul Eater.

Soul Eater didn't give Ragna the red eye, Rachel did when she feasted on his blood.

[GunBlazer]

Just now, TekkamanArk said:

Soul Eater didn't give Ragna the red eye, Rachel did when she feasted on his blood.

That only happened in one timeline, and it's not the current one.

[Zedar90]

10 minutes ago, TekkamanArk said:

Soul Eater didn't give Ragna the red eye, Rachel did when she feasted on his blood.

The eye became red due to the Azure Grimoire and has nothing to do with Rachel.
That's also the reason why the eye doesn't work when the grimoire is being deactivate by Celica.

[Ogiga99]

18 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

The eye became red due to the Azure Grimoire and has nothing to do with Rachel.
That's also the reason why the eye doesn't work when the grimoire is being deactivate by Celica.

This does raise a question about Naoto's red eyes though. His clearly have no relation to Soul Eater since he doesn't have that Drive. However, if you remember Hakumen said he sensed the Black Beast from him, which would explain why his eyes and hair change to the same colors Ragna's did when he got the Grimoire (he was originally a blonde). Heck, Touya's eyes turn red when he uses his XBlaze and his Original Grimoire is said to draw on the power of the Black Beast so that could easily be the link. Although that does open up the issue of Soul Eater, which in every case besides Saya Terumi is a power of the Black Beast (Ragna and Touya use their Grimoires and the proto-Black Beast in That Which Is Inherited used it to steal souls while it was being smelted). Does that mean the Drive that, for lack of a better word, possessed Saya is also connected to the Black Beast? Then again, I thought that Saya's eyes were always red, but she didn't get the Drive until she was 8, so they could be unrelated. Then this spirals out of control as to whether Izanami, and by extension Amaterasu, have a connection to the Black Beast. Or what about Rachel? All the vampires we've seen have different origins (Clavis is an Illusionary Creature like a manifested Drive, Raquel is an Embryo and we have no idea what Rachel actually is) so is she related as well?

Or we could be looking way too far into this and aside from the significance about Ragna and Naoto having red eyes (and those two also are the only ones to come packaged with white hair) some people have red eyes just because with no deeper meaning. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it.

[NoelChan101]

Story mode better explain everything.

From Izanami

Ragna ,Jin, and Saya at the church what transpired

Why Hibiki wants to kill Kagura to be emotionless

Noato being sent to BB world and his demise in BB world

The OPFD back story with more detail

What Noel seen in the BlackBeast besides the gate

Ragna,Jin, and Saya's Origins

How does Rachel know about the OPFD

Terumi's real name

Etc.

[Zedar90]

20 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

Although that does open up the issue of Soul Eater, which in every case besides Saya Terumi is a power of the Black Beast (Ragna and Touya use their Grimoires and the proto-Black Beast in That Which Is Inherited used it to steal souls while it was being smelted). Does that mean the Drive that, for lack of a better word, possessed Saya is also connected to the Black Beast? Then again, I thought that Saya's eyes were always red, but she didn't get the Drive until she was 8, so they could be unrelated.

I don't think that having red eyes immediately makes one connected to the Black Beast, but in the case of Terumi Saya she kinda is connected.
Raquel says that if one has it, in the end one will become a monster greater then Clavis(however, most will not become that great because the body will break down before that happens).
Simply meaning, if one has Soul Eater one will sooner or later turn into the Black Beast(or die transforming into it).

[Luminos564]

8 hours ago, Stryker115 said:

Two words

Transplant rejection

OK, I promise not to dwell on this much and I am not mad or anything but, you do know this series is about as far away removed from realism as my arse is from the dark side of Europa, right? This is a story where a man like Ragna can get shot by an outta control Mu-12 (after receiving a thrashing from Hazama), disintegrate his left arm and then not die despite bleeding from every orifice. Or if you wanna throw in arm transplants, why is it that he can move his mechanical replacement within what seems to be mere days? As opposed to going through months of intense physical and mental therapy just to form a fist properly? But now you're telling me it's impossible for anyone else to be affected by that Azure arm because they're not Ragna?

Alls I'm saying is, if the series has barely any concern keeping up a facade of "realistic problems", why should we? Play by its rules, sure. Doesn't mean we suddenly have to make up some of them if the story itself gave us none in the first place alright ? 

5 hours ago, Stryker115 said:

What process? All that means is that if it isn't Ragna that the AG is grafted onto then the unfortunate patient is instantly turned into Seithr and absorbed like all other living creatures with a soul.

The thing is the Azure Grimoire isn't corrupting Ragna but actually REVERTING him to his actual natural state. A Black Beast.

See now, this intrigues me. I mean, Arakune is a "failure" Black Beast but seems capable enough of becoming the real deal. But that is the process of a human unfortunately turning into it. But this implies that the Black Beast is Ragna's default state. And in some aspects, it makes sense. He's certainly running the risk of turning into one even if he isn't stabbed in the gut by Nu-13. Though, I imagine this shift to be different than when he fused with her in all those loops prior.

3 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

All we know about a potential Izanagi is that Izanami acknowledges him in CP as "not a threat". Maybe if she's the Master Unit's dark side, Izanagi represents the side that wants to make things right, but hasn't been able to do so yet?

Well, Izanami claimed it was "humans that built/made" Izanagi. Now in what context this isn't made clear. For all we know, Izanagi could be an mechanical construct or programming just as much as it could be an actual person. I have my doubts about it being Ragna though. I dunno, something about it does not fit. But then again, in the actual myth he and Izanami were siblings (later husband and wife) and Ragna is technically Izanami's sibling so there is that parallel. Not sure how he feels about snuggling up to a living skeleton from the depths of hell though...

[Zedar90]

I don't know if it's worth to give Izanagi that much thought currently. All that it has been said about that name in Blazblue(excluding that Remix Heart part) is Izanami mentioning a little bit and that it's also the name for the 0th city(第零都市「イザナギ」)

[Luminos564]

5 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

I don't know if it's worth to give Izanagi that much thought currently. All that it has been said about that name in Blazblue(excluding that Remix Heart part) is Izanami mentioning a little bit and that it's also the name for the 0th city(第零都市「イザナギ」)

Ah, that would explain the "humans built it" line from Izanami. Outta curiosity, is there anything of importance in that city?