Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[JustaMaskedFreak]

2 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

Well...

Is she? Where did they state that?

What I got was that Naoto was a Chronophantasma. He, like Celica, is a person who should be dead in the current timeline but still exists with all of his memories thank to being forced there agaisnt the world's logic.

However, Naoto's case is different. Yes, he is from a different timeline and shouldn't be here, but also he's from a different world, or "possibility". I guess we can't consider him a Chronophantasma, since he is more like a time-traveler from other world, rather than a ressurrected person.

[BlazGearRegalia]

Wow, so much on our motherly vampire, and my brain is experiencing technical difficulties in processing all of this so...

What exactly is going on between Rachel and Raquel again?

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

6 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

Wow, so much on our motherly vampire, and my brain is experiencing technical difficulties in processing all of this so...

What exactly is going on between Rachel and Raquel again?

Raquel is to Rachel what Naoto is to Ragna, a parallel existence fulfilling their role in another story.

Our big question is how does that shite works and I came up with the idea that both Rachel and Raquel are actually Clavis Alucard's Drive manifested through the Tsukuyomi Unit.

They are basically different vessels for the same soul.

[Kenji Harima]

Hope we won't pay for this off-topic.

 

2 hours ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

Our big question is how does that shite works and I came up with the idea that both Rachel and Raquel are actually Clavis Alucard's Drive manifested through the Tsukuyomi Unit.

Your theory mentioned on previous page was interesting but I have few thoughts:

1) A vessel usually develope own personality like we see in Karuma/Hazama/Terumi case and also independence in specific conditions. Of course you pointed that we are talking about Drives of Sankishin owners so he might be an exception.

The other expample it's Saya who was also independent being before Izanami posssessed her -> however her origin it's still a mystery so we don't know if she was made from the beginning as the vessel for Izanami, was born as a human (I doubt) or just has been modified by Relius later. She is still here but dominated. Rachel seems to be on her own and there isn't any signs of Clavis so that it's a point that he sealed his fate after he had given Tsukuyomi Unit.

2) Saya T. case isn't that simple: it doesn't matter which world is it (BEE or BB) she had been living before the humanity had opened the Boundary so she couldn't be a vessel. It's definitely too early: Izanami Hades wasn't probably existed. Master Unit probably didn't have any wielder. The infinite loop of time doesn't change it.

I doubt she was living as a ghost within the Boundary before the OPFD gained a soul.

And if we take an argument so why Izanami Hades had strange reactions toward Naoto? (Act 2 ending where she was saying that her body isn't react like she want)

It's might be our Saya sense, like you said Naoto it's parallel of Ragna so it doesn't need "Saya T". Saya's feelings can be a factor: at this state she won't recognize differents between Naoto and Ragna -> it was said several times that they have similiar souls.

They could be somehow "related" if we set that Saya it's a copy of Saya T and Ragna copy of Naoto but I definitely don't like this theory. Saya T was kidnapped but in the BEE world. Hell, even Terumi words about "stolen souls" to Ragna in Continuum Shift won't change it.

Still we didn't get any clue about origin of Amaterasu's soul so it's just a guessing based on Inazami's looks.

3) Following this line of thought people who were living in BEE alernate timeline were also in BB but their actual status it's mostly unknown or they are dead.

4) If we will sum all this can we expect a Drive from Hakumen's soul?

 

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

2 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

Hope we won't pay for this off-topic.

 

Your theory mentioned on previous page was interesting but I have few thoughts:

1) A vessel usually develope own personality like we see in Karuma/Hazama/Terumi case and also independence in specific conditions. Of course you pointed that we are talking about Drives of Sankishin owners so he might be an exception.

The other expample it's Saya who was also independent being before Izanami posssessed her -> however her origin it's still a mystery so we don't know if she was made from the beginning as the vessel for Izanami, was born as a human (I doubt) or just has been modified by Relius later. She is still here but dominated. Rachel seems to be on her own and there isn't any signs of Clavis so that it's a point that he sealed his fate after he had given Tsukuyomi Unit.

2) Saya T. case isn't that simple: it doesn't matter which world is it (BEE or BB) she had been living before the humanity had opened the Boundary so she couldn't be a vessel. It's definitely too early: Izanami Hades wasn't probably existed. Master Unit probably didn't have any wielder. The infinite loop of time doesn't change it.

I doubt she was living as a ghost within the Boundary before the OPFD gained a soul.

And if we take an argument so why Izanami Hades had strange reactions toward Naoto? (Act 2 ending where she was saying that her body isn't react like she want)

It's might be our Saya sense, like you said Naoto it's parallel of Ragna so it doesn't need "Saya T". Saya's feelings can be a factor: at this state she won't recognize differents between Naoto and Ragna -> it was said several times that they have similiar souls.

They could be somehow "related" if we set that Saya it's a copy of Saya T and Ragna copy of Naoto but I definitely don't like this theory. Saya T was kidnapped but in the BEE world. Hell, even Terumi words about "stolen souls" to Ragna in Continuum Shift won't change it.

Still we didn't get any clue about origin of Amaterasu's soul so it's just a guessing based on Inazami's looks.

3) Following this line of thought people who were living in BEE alernate timeline were also in BB but their actual status it's mostly unknown or they are dead.

4) If we will sum all this can we expect a Drive from Hakumen's soul?

 

1- Rachel's vessel was made from something which was never human to begin with, not only that but it is biologically still a child so it wouldn't display much toughts of it's own.

In Rachel's ending they also hint at giving her a new body.

2- Humanity had already breached the boundary during XBlaze which chronologically happens before BEE.

3- Naoto is pretty much the lynchpin of his timeline, as the hero his existence is what makes other characters in his universe successful.

It's like, if he was Naruto then him dying at the hands of Kabuto in part one would completely doom the rest of the cast.

4- Good question, Hakumen is weird because he is Jin and his drive would be the Power of Order.

Yet since Jin also exists as his own person outside of Susanoo, his drive is in a Schrödinger's position regarding self-awareness.

Other characters like Makoto and Tsubaki are beggining to exibit the Power of Order in small amounts so it's possible that Hakumen's drive is in it's early stages of evolution.

It's some pretty crazy shit considering that characters back in XBlaze already began to show traits similar to Izanami despite the entity itself not displaying awareness yet.

[Kenji Harima]

On 19.04.2016 at 1:51 AM, 1337 H@x0r said:

In Rachel's ending

Speaking of Rachel I have been playing Calamity Trigger recently and thanks to revelations in CF as well as Noel and Rachel arcade endings in CT I am starting to think that she knew from the beginning who is not only Succesor of the Azure but also the wielder of Master Unit. This "Sleeping Beauty" and white room (a little different than Takamagahara System) are so obvious.

On 19.04.2016 at 1:51 AM, 1337 H@x0r said:

2- Humanity had already breached the boundary during XBlaze which chronologically happens before BEE.

My bad, I have just forgotten about T-System and Takamagahara organization. Still it doesn't change the fact that it was before the OPFD had gained a soul.

However there are many possibilities whatt happened to Saya T. in BB timeline, too many (for example: copied, transformed, altered, put down to sleep, whatever) to write them all so I will skip it cause it's too random.

On 19.04.2016 at 1:51 AM, 1337 H@x0r said:

It's like, if he was Naruto then him dying at the hands of Kabuto in part one would completely doom the rest of the cast.

There are more examples like this from other universes: seithr idea remind me of LCL from NGE, CF's Embryo remind me of Compression of Time from Final Fantasy VIII, fiction world another Matrix or FFX and many others.

I am thankful that nobody in Arc System Works got an idea to put space travels in the BB.

 

 

 

[Toxin45]

Well at least we know why Naoto is here in CF.

[Vanagandr]

So let's me get this straight, Naoto' strory is something like this:

In the Blazblue world, a Naoto certainly existed in the past, HOWEVER, he died at the hand of Clavis.

HOWEVER, there's an alternate reality that he survived and that world is Bloodedge Exp.

But now, reality is breaking down, every alternate world has disappeared, leaving Blazblue world the only timeline still standing (for now).

HOWEVER, Raquel manage to save Naoto from being erased along with his timeline by booting him out of the Bloodedge Exp world and place him into the Blazblue world, passing him off as "Ragna", which slowly overwriting the real Ragna existence because clearly the world hasn't shit on Ragna enough as it is.

So basically, when they say that the Blazblue world is the "origin" of Naoto's world is doesn't mean that Blazblue happened before Bloodedge Exp. It just mean that the Blazblue world is like a big tree trunk and every other worlds, including Bloodedge Exp, are the small branches.

Did I got that right?

[Toxin45]

So Raquel is still aliv right?

[Volt]

20 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

Speaking of Rachel I have been playing Calamity Trigger recently and thanks to revelations in CF as well as Noel and Rachel arcade endings in CT I am starting to think that she knew from the beginning who is not only Succesor of the Azure but also the wielder of Master Unit. This "Sleeping Beauty" and white room (a little different than Takamagahara System) are so obvious.

 

Just want to reinforce that while most of CT got retconned, these particular endings were not, because they are directly referenced in CP when Nu tricks Noel into observing her as Mu/Successor to the Azure/herself.

 

So, regarding the whole "how can BEE come before and after Blazblue?" Remember the CT Timeloops? It looks like we'll have a similar situation. Something happens in Central Fiction and then someone or something falls into a cauldron and saves the day like Hakumen.

The catch? According to what Relius said, Hazama is that thing. I'm trippin', are there any translations or summaries or whatever regarding Bloodedge Experience? That thing is throwing wrenches in my theories and unlike the Phase Novels, I don't even have a clue about the general plot of it.

[Kenji Harima]

1 hour ago, Vanagandr said:

So basically, when they say that the Blazblue world is the "origin" of Naoto's world is doesn't mean that Blazblue happened before Bloodedge Exp. It just mean that the Blazblue world is like a big tree trunk and every other worlds, including Bloodedge Exp, are the small branches.

Did I got that right?

Mainly yes.

Many parallel worlds which can have many different (!) timelines but in the one basic they are same -> The Boundary and the Azure are unique and so the Sankishin.

This world is now the origin cause probably only here humanity have gone so deep throught the Boundary and contact with the Master Unit -> These events caused a "born" of "Successor of The Azure" who seems to be linked to this world. Rest of story you know.

It's not the fresh idea cause for example DC have similiar things in their comics -> multiverse yes but still there are omnipotent beings which are the same and unique for all.

26 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

So Raquel is still aliv right?

Hard to say. Her soul wasn't destroyed definitely but she is the Embryo (not this one in CF of course) so it might be a way to bring her back physically.

 

 

 

[Zedar90]

13 minutes ago, Volt said:

I'm trippin', are there any translations or summaries or whatever regarding Bloodedge Experience? That thing is throwing wrenches in my theories and unlike the Phase Novels, I don't even have a clue about the general plot of it.

I don't think there are any, not that it would help to know anything about Hazama.

Hazama only appears in the final chapter, Chapter Outside - Fragment. In it a young man around Naoto's age appears and says that he has been looking for Relius. The young man says that he comes the Mitsurugi Agency and have been told to follow Relius' orders. When he is asked what his name is, the man first says that a name doesn't matter, but due to how angry Valkenhayn gets he tells them they can call him Hazama.

Hazama also whispered that he had "finally found" Relius, but only Valkenhayn heard it faintly.

[Toxin45]

So basically this Hazama is different from the Hazama we know

[GunBlazer]

Just now, Zedar90 said:

Hazama also whispered that he had "finally found" Relius, but only Valkenhayn heard it faintly.

So there is a possibility that Hazama molded Relius into who he is today? I mean, IIRC, BEE!Relius was rather nice, if not focused and level-headed.

[Zedar90]

1 minute ago, GunBlazer said:

So there is a possibility that Hazama molded Relius into who he is today? I mean, IIRC, BEE!Relius was rather nice, if not focused and level-headed.

The Relius in BB never met with Hazama in the past, so probably not. BEE Relius might be a little nicer, but he still not that nice. When Valkenhayn was in danger, Relius just stood there and watched, observing Saya.
And the first thing he does with meeting Hazama was looking into him and thinking that Hazama had an interesting shape.
Relius would likely sooner or later turn into what he is in BB, but who knows, maybe Hazama will only accelerate it.

[Toxin45]

But are we sure it's the same Hazama I mean Naoto already met him in act iii and it seemed that it was not the same Hazama he know according to Relius and Hazama himself Didn't Relius made Hazama to be terumi's vessel?

[GunBlazer]

It's the first time I've felt dizzy analyzing this story...

Spoiler

Inb4 BEE!Hazama is the event that saves/destroys the BEE world.

 

[Tokkan]

39 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

But are we sure it's the same Hazama I mean Naoto already met him in act iii and it seemed that it was not the same Hazama he know according to Relius and Hazama himself Didn't Relius made Hazama to be terumi's vessel?

There is nothing stopping BB Hazama from travelling over to the BE possibility after CF is over in order to become BE Hazama. 

[BlackYakuzu94]

On 4/10/2016 at 10:16 PM, Zedar90 said:

Never got around to those two summaries.

Izayoi
3 Jin
6 Makoto
7 Noel
8 Hakumen

Tsubaki won't allow Jin to kill Noel for the world's sake.
After the battle, Jin says that the people of the world is after Noel, but Tsubaki says that she is prepared for that but she will protect her friend.

For the sake of protecting their friend, Makoto and Tsubaki exercise.

Noel is in confusion and thinks that Tsubaki is there to kill her with Izayoi. After the battle Hakumen appears.

Tsubaki says to Hakumen that even if it's Hakumen's ideals and mission, she thinks that Hakumen is trying to do is wrong.
After the battle, Tsubaki happens to touch the azure and sees the CG of Jin and, Tsubaki as a secretary which makes it seems like Tsubaki starts to realize who Hakumen is.

Tsubaki
3 Carl
6 Hibiki
7 Hazama
8 Jin

Carl asks Tsubaki if she knows where Noel is, and Tsubaki asks why does he wants to know where she is. Since Carl knows there is no use in lying towards Tsubaki, he says it's for the sake of killing Noel. Tsubaki says that then she can't allow him to go to Noel.
After the battle, Carl asks Tsubaki why does she get in his way, and Tsubaki answers that like Carl wants to save his sister, she wants to protect her friends.
Carl says that Tsubaki should have it also, a desire that she wants to sacrifice people for it being granted.
Tsubaki says that she once had a desire to change the world. But that she is tired of a world that has to sacrifice someone. And if that person is someone dear to her, she will protect that person even if she becomes an enemy to the world.

Tsubaki meets with Hibiki who is after Noel's life on his own since it's the fastest way to the world that Kagura is aiming for.
After the battle, Tsubaki tells Hibiki to step down since Kagura is likely not wanting this to happen, but Hibiki says it doesn't matter to him what Kagura wants. And instead asks Tsubaki what will she do if Tsubaki's one and only person is trying to kill Noel. And later Hibiki disappears.

Tsubaki meets Hazama, and they fight eachoters.
After the fight, Hazama tells Tsubaki that Jin is planning on using the Lynchpin to seal Noel.
Hearing this, Tsubaki runs off, and when Tsubaki is gone Hazama said that it would be easier for him now if either Jin or Tsubaki would disappear.

Tsubaki arrives and protects Noel from Jin, and asks Jin if he is serious about sealing Noel.
Jin tells Tsubaki to move away, that it's something that Jin must do.
Tsubaki says to Jin that he should have something else that should be done instead, but Jin tells Tsubaki to handover Noel.
Tsubaki tells Noel to stand down, but Noel is reluctant, but after that Tsubaki says it a second time Noel steps back.
After the battle, Jin tells Tsubaki once again to get out of the way. But Tsubaki says that she will not and asks Jin for the reason of why he is doing this, but Jin only tells Tsubaki to move.
Noel says to Tsubaki that it's enough, that she will be okay. But Tsubaki tells Noel to go, that Noel should have something to do that only she can do.
Noel apologize and thanks Tsubaki, and after that she runs off.
Jin tries to go after Noel but Tsubaki won't allow Jin to do that.
Jin asks Tsubaki of what is she trying to do, and Tsubaki says that if Jin is planning on sealing Noel, he will have to do that after he has cut down her.

Can I just say I appreciate Mori showing that Tsubaki isn't as crazy as most of the fanbase thought and that she actually does care about her friends :V

[Ogiga99]

Holy crap a lot has happened since I've been here. That means I've got a lot to say. Sorry in advance.

 

I'm glad we got that Naoto translation because now things make a lot more sense. I'm glad Naoto just says Hakumen is similar to that "Ally of Justice" as opposed to saying he looked like a girl named Justice. That lessens the whole Guilty Gear similarities/crossover that I feared.

 

3 hours ago, Vanagandr said:

So basically, when they say that the Blazblue world is the "origin" of Naoto's world is doesn't mean that Blazblue happened before Bloodedge Exp. It just mean that the Blazblue world is like a big tree trunk and every other worlds, including Bloodedge Exp, are the small branches.

Did I got that right?

That sounds about right to me, but I have my own thoughts to add to the mix. Personally I think it's the Embryo that is erasing the "possibility" of the world. The way "possibility" seems to work is that every possible circumstances that can occur based on someone's actions all exist and are all linked via the Boundary (hence why people can jump between "possibilities" like Naoto in CF or Makoto in Slight Hope). Phenomenon Intervention, even by Amaterasu, isn't straight up making a reality you want, it's just picking which reality you want from the list of "possibilities" (this is why Amaterasu couldn't just erase Terumi and Relius or stop Takamagahara from using Take-Mikazuchi to destroy Kagutsuchi, there is no possibility where that happens). The Embryo, however, is different. If an Entitled gets the Azure and creates their world, they are literally making a wish that changes the very foundation of the universe and create a world that exists regardless of whether or not it could result from any existing "possibility." Thus this new world becomes the base from which it's own infinite "possibilities" spring forth. This also means that since the previous world was completely overwritten, all of it's various "possibilities" disappear, even from the Boundary that connects everything, since they can no longer exist. Even if this is not exactly how it works, I think it's pretty clear that Bloodedge Experience doesn't take place "after" BlazBlue (which really doesn't work from any sort of chronological view since even if it was created by the current events, it would still have "always" existed), it just requires the continuation of the current world in order to exist in the first place. I would also add that this supports my theory that no one will create a new world with the Embryo or rewrite the world by becoming the Master Unit aside from restoring the souls in the Embryo. This idea is furthered by Raquel telling Naoto not to touch the Azure, since him using it would destroy his world for good.

 

On April 19, 2016 at 2:33 PM, 1337 H@x0r said:

Our big question is how does that shite works and I came up with the idea that both Rachel and Raquel are actually Clavis Alucard's Drive manifested through the Tsukuyomi Unit.

They are basically different vessels for the same soul.

That's impossible. For one we don't know if Clavis actually used the Tsukuyomi Unit or even if he ever had it in the first place (we don't know how or when Rachel acquired it so it could have been after his death). We also have an explicit origin for Raquel. She is the Embryo that was left behind after Clavis defeated the Soul Eater user, which morphed into a physical form on its own, meaning Clavis didn't play a direct role in her creation and her soul comes from the countless souls inside the Embryo. We also know that Clavis does not have his own Drive because he is an Illusionary Creature, similar to Izanami being a Drive-Existence. Here's how Raquel explains it in BE (thanks to Zedar90 for the translation).

Naoto: Then, are you and your father drive users? Having gotten yours souls closer to the azure.
Raquel: My father is a little special. He is an extremely special existence… He is special within the special, the exception within the exceptions.
I don’t know who, but a long time in the past only one person touched a portion of the azure. That someone used the power of azure and gave birth to my father.
Naoto: That… sounds unreasonable incredible, you know?
Raquel: It is  unreasonable incredible. His very foundation is on a whole other level from other living beings. An “Illusion of the Azure” born by the azure form humans desires, malice and fear. … existence like father is being called  Illusionary Creatures.

Raquel denies that he is a Drive user meaning Rachel or Raquel couldn't be his Drive since he doesn't have one. Also, assuming this were the case how could Rachel still be alive after Clavis's death? Wouldn't a Drive manifestation of the soul disappear once the soul that created it returns to the Abyss of the Azure?

Not to mention Rachel and Raquel have a number of different properties that suggest different origins. Raquel gained knowledge by connecting to the Boundary while Rachel did so by going into a coma for half a century. Raquel has a life force value of 80,000 whereas Rachel has no number at all. Raquel was born a teenage while Rachel was born as a child and had to physically grow. Raquel can sense the Azure while Rachel doesn't have any known connection to the Azure. When Rachel bit Ragna in the first timeline, he didn't turn into a full vampire after a year and go berserk trying to drink blood and Rachel couldn't use her own life force to keep him alive or heal him like with Naoto. They have an important connection for sure but with so many differences in their very natures I doubt they have the same origin.

 

On April 19, 2016 at 7:51 PM, 1337 H@x0r said:

Well...

1- Rachel's vessel was made from something which was never human to begin with, not only that but it is biologically still a child so it wouldn't display much toughts of it's own.

In Rachel's ending they also hint at giving her a new body.

2- Humanity had already breached the boundary during XBlaze which chronologically happens before BEE.

3- Naoto is pretty much the lynchpin of his timeline, as the hero his existence is what makes other characters in his universe successful.

It's like, if he was Naruto then him dying at the hands of Kabuto in part one would completely doom the rest of the cast.

4- Good question, Hakumen is weird because he is Jin and his drive would be the Power of Order.

Yet since Jin also exists as his own person outside of Susanoo, his drive is in a Schrödinger's position regarding self-awareness.

Other characters like Makoto and Tsubaki are beggining to exibit the Power of Order in small amounts so it's possible that Hakumen's drive is in it's early stages of evolution.

It's some pretty crazy shit considering that characters back in XBlaze already began to show traits similar to Izanami despite the entity itself not displaying awareness yet.

1- How does Rachel's ending hint at her getting a new body? All Jubei says is that they will pick up "that." Then again, Izanami calls Rachel a "human who was an Observer before" in the Act 3 preview so who knows.

3- Not sure where you're getting this from, especially with the possibility that BE and XBlaze are in the same timeline. Plenty of events happened without Naoto's involvement (Clavis defeating the Soul Eater user and creating Raquel, Saya Terumi gaining Soul Eater etc.) so I don't see how he makes the universe "successful." This is different from the main timeline where there can be a hero or "lynchpin" character because the timeline is limited to only events over 100 years that Ragna influences in both the beginning and in the present, whereas BE is from a complete timeline of human history with nothing to make him the most important person in it. Even without Naoto a lot of events probably wouldn't have changed. Raquel could have defeated the first Apostle on her own if Naoto hadn't made her drop her guard, Relius could have captured Saya Terumi and Kiiro is probably strong enough to have defeated Spinner. Naoto hasn't saved the world and the events he's involved in are relatively low scale, so he's hardly comparable to the Naruto example. It's too simple to say "if X did't exist than Y wouldn't happen and the story would end with Z) since there are an infinite number of possible outcomes. If anyone were the "lynchpin" I would argue it were Raquel since she is an Embryo that comes from the Boundary and thus can determine the existence of her world to an extent (which is why she can maintain Naoto's existence and send him to the main timeline despite his world disappearing.

4- The Power of Order is very different from a Drive. While both do require having a strong soul (unless we're talking about the Spinner Superior method of getting Drive which involves getting too close to the Azure), only Drives actually draw on the power of the Azure. The Power of Order is a natural force created by the world to keep balance and what the power source for the Power of Order even is, besides willpower, is unknown. Heck in Phase Shift we see that the Power of Order can manifest as crystals, so the power doesn't even require a soul. Furthermore, both Celica and the crystals have the power to suppress seithr, which runs counter to using the power of the Azure.

What do you mean by "characters in XBlaze already began to show traits similar to Izanami despite the entity itself not displaying awareness yet?" If you mean her nature, there are no characters who are what could be considered a Drive-Existence like her. If you're referring to Sechs and the idea that he was working for her, I've already explained how the similarities are superficial and that Lost: Memories decisively disproved the theory by revealing who Sechs was talking to, explicitly saying that Sechs came up with the plan on his own and him wanting a world of perfect order without the concept of life or death.

 

2 hours ago, GunBlazer said:

It's the first time I've felt dizzy analyzing this story...

  Reveal hidden contents

Inb4 BEE!Hazama is the event that saves/destroys the BEE world.

 

I'm impressed you made it this long. I only made it to CP's true ending when it was revealed that the Ragna who became Bloodedge was actually from the present as opposed to being one from the CT-era that fell into the Cauldron. Specifically it was trying to figure out why he still had his sword and jacket on return despite leaving them with Celica that nearly broke me before I heard the probable "he took the sword and jacket that belonged to the CT Ragna inside the Black Beast" theory.

 

1 hour ago, Tokkan said:

There is nothing stopping BB Hazama from travelling over to the BE possibility after CF is over in order to become BE Hazama. 

I'm not sure about that. The Hazama in BE is described as looking to be around Naoto's age and the current Hazama definitely looks older than 16 so I have a hard time believing he could have travelled back in time and look so young. Naoto even says "he seemed like he was a little more mature then before" so it seems weird for Hazama to regress if he does travel to BE in the future. There's also the question of what he would be doing there since he is already aware that Naoto recognizes him and thus knows that going to Naoto's possibility would mean directly causing the events that lead to the failure of his plans in the present, so why would he abandon everything he has built up to go to a possibility not even being focused on by the Master Unit and is a complete unknown. This is hardly the first time a character in BE seems to overlap with someone from the main timeline so we don't know for sure what the relationship between them is or why he is the cause of the difference between Relius and Naoto's version of the events.

 

1 hour ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Can I just say I appreciate Mori showing that Tsubaki isn't as crazy as most of the fanbase thought and that she actually does care about her friends :V

THANK YOU! I can't stand that so many people completely ignore her character development or the circumstances behind her actions and just reduce her to a Jin obsessed yandere who hates Ragna for no reason. It's a shame people can't let go of their first impressions and realize that many of the characters have changed like Jin no longer having his psychotic vaguely homoerotic fixation on Ragna or Rachel actually having a hidden super-nice side since the very beginning that is showing more and more.

 

On a completely different note, I've been wondering if there is any significance behind the "constants" throughout the series. What I mean by "constants" is elements that are present in BlazBlue, Bloodedge Experience and XBlaze despite them being alternate timelines. Of course there are the obvious ones like the Azure, the Boundary, Cauldrons, Phenomenon Intervention, seithr and magic/sorcery that are staples of the universe but what about the more specific elements? The one's I've noticed are the Amanohokosaka Clan, Drives, Soul Eater, the Black Beast, some form of Prime Field as well as a Murakumo to accompany it, the Magic Guild (and presumably the Ten Sages, not positive if they're mentioned in BE) and the Embryo. It's possible this is just world building and red herrings but the fact that they are in all three as opposed to one of the spin-offs referencing the main story (Kusanagi, Izayoi and Blood Cain for XBlaze, Saya Terumi's name, and the Immortal Breakers for BE) has me suspect that some of those elements might be essential in how all the worlds intersect. Of course if BE and XBlaze are the same timeline (as hinted by the appearance of Mei, TOi and the Mitsurugi Agency) the number of constants would increase dramatically. This is probably stupid and I don't really have a theory to go with it but the idea just stuck out to me.

[Toxin45]

Yeah I mean can't people let that go? Besides Jin is now trying to kill Noel,izanami,and Ragna for his desire for a world without god thing and Tsubaki went from going after Ragna to protecting noel jeez. Man I mean people will never even let Ragna down for getting worfed I know that his life sucks but come on don't exaggerate it I mean his record isn't too bad.

[BlazGearRegalia]

2 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

THANK YOU! I can't stand that so many people completely ignore her character development or the circumstances behind her actions and just reduce her to a Jin obsessed yandere who hates Ragna for no reason. It's a shame people can't let go of their first impressions and realize that many of the characters have changed like Jin no longer having his psychotic vaguely homoerotic fixation on Ragna or Rachel actually having a hidden super-nice side since the very beginning that is showing more and more.

Wish I knew where exactly it went wrong, but I'm gonna point the finger at CP's setup for that misconception. I'll be honest, after my first run through CP, that impression was stuck on me for a while, until I went through it again and again, and then CF came along and things started becoming clear. The CP story did kinda make Tsubaki look that way, and the fact that she didn't ask the important questions until now in CF pretty much said to me that either she either had [let me repeat, HAD]. Some  black and white view on the world, or she just wasn't thinking. BUT, I'm no expert on character development, so perhaps I'm missing something  that other's know [and if anyone can elaborate, that would be much appreciated], but it's nice to see some of the excess hate is getting lifted from Ms. Yayoi.

 

3 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

On a completely different note, I've been wondering if there is any significance behind the "constants" throughout the series. What I mean by "constants" is elements that are present in BlazBlue, Bloodedge Experience and XBlaze despite them being alternate timelines. Of course there are the obvious ones like the Azure, the Boundary, Cauldrons, Phenomenon Intervention, seithr and magic/sorcery that are staples of the universe but what about the more specific elements? The one's I've noticed are the Amanohokosaka Clan, Drives, Soul Eater, the Black Beast, some form of Prime Field as well as a Murakumo to accompany it, the Magic Guild (and presumably the Ten Sages, not positive if they're mentioned in BE) and the Embryo. It's possible this is just world building and red herrings but the fact that they are in all three as opposed to one of the spin-offs referencing the main story (Kusanagi, Izayoi and Blood Cain for XBlaze, Saya Terumi's name, and the Immortal Breakers for BE) has me suspect that some of those elements might be essential in how all the worlds intersect. Of course if BE and XBlaze are the same timeline (as hinted by the appearance of Mei, TOi and the Mitsurugi Agency) the number of constants would increase dramatically. This is probably stupid and I don't really have a theory to go with it but the idea just stuck out to me.

 

Okay, I am a little stumped, but if not for world building or red herrings, then I'm willing to bet that they hold some sort of significance to the problems that have lead up to the chaotic points of each timeline, whether contributing to or reducing said problems. I don't have much to follow up with this, but the significance, I'm very sure of.

[Fenris]

I wonder if whatever happened to BB Naoto played a part in Ragna's existence. Now, I admit, I haven't quite put too much thought into it yet, but I think it would make sense that Ragna's existence would be threatened due Naoto screwing up something that was supposed to occur in order for Ragna to live. Could it be that BB Naoto's death by the hands of Clavis Alucard somehow resulted in Ragna's existence? Can Ragna not exist if Naoto lives?

[NoelChan101]

Noel calls Ragna Brother in one of her win poses but the players skip to fast for me to hear clearly

 

[NoelChan101]

Maybe Ragna has BB Noato's soul 

 About Hazama Well wasnt this similar situation in the wheel of fortune, with Jin in CP asking Hakumen if that was Hazama where was Yuuki Terumi?