[CF] Iron Tager Official Release Changes, News and General Discussion Thread

[TagerTime]

This is the Tager Central Fiction News and General Discussion Thread!

I will list all the official Tager Central Fiction release changes in this first post after they are translated.

[Valthazeryus]

Overall, the setups still have the same old modes, Story Mode, Score Attack Mode, and Sparring Mode. Story Mode basically revolves around Tager meeting up with Bullet, Nine doing shit to Tager's memories, and remembering stuff from before cyborg times. Score Attack is basically easy, medium, hard, etc mode. Sparring is just like 300 seconds on the clock.

I'm just going to use Twitter as an image host for now: https://twitter.com/Valthazeryus/status/667171868139393024

(When she loses, she just lies down.)

 

In more of a serious note, actual information that might be useful. I just tweeted out changes I noticed to use as a notepad and here are some of the finds:

2C overriding 3C in gatling hurts a lot since the 6B mixup is also gone. Really hard to do CP combos like magnetized 3C>wiff AC combo fillers. I am not sure if I am rusty or if it were the cab's sticks, but definitely tried to grind out some 3C in gatlings: did not work.

First half of Wedge Catapult can go into a basic combo: 360B>5C>6A>2C>AC>GF: 2791.

Wedge Catapult in it's full completion: 360B>360B>GF: 2700

Wedge Catapult having really good start invulnerability is nice, but recovery frames suck and they can jump out of it if their reaction is good.

360A>GF: 2600, if I remember correctly? Pretty sure it was 2500+100, not 2400+100.

Tager's Exceed Accel is blockable, but is a grab animation. Seems to have invulnerability on startup. Does 4308 damage raw if you just enter Overdrive and push A+B+C+D again.

2D is fatal combo, but haven't found anything to follow up without Rapid Canceling.

Spark Bolt and D moves not being able to follow up after Atomic Colider kind of sucks, but can always follow up with Gadget Finger.

Active Flow was quite disappointing. It seems like its universal timing for everybody, not respective to characters. I found myself getting Active Flow a bit late every time and usually I didn't need it. Seems to come online a bit quicker if I just spam Wedge Catapult.

[TagerTime]

Thank you Valthazeryus for your impressions. Next time you go to the arcade can you check a few things if you can?

is this is saying new 360A has invincibility? i hope so

新Aドラは無敵3F～、発生5Fらしい
ロケテ勢の情報だけども

http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1446282622/l50

Does 2D still have projectile invuln like previous loke tests?

if there are any changes to Air Buster?

Does both A and B sledge have normal startup guardpoint or is it just Bsledge, and if so how good are they if used as an anti air or reversal?

How good is Catapault used as an anti air?

What combos after normal hit 5D stagger without a rapid cancel?

This video shows us that RC Catapault  Red Beat combos after normal 5D. Is this a property of catapault or is it a property of 5D stagger?  Meaning does catapult red beat in any ground combo or just after 5D? Does 360A also red beat combo after 5D stagger?

 

 

On 11/19/2015, 11:36:54, Valthazeryus said:

In more of a serious note, actual information that might be useful. I just tweeted out changes I noticed to use as a notepad and here are some of the finds:

2C overriding 3C in gatling hurts a lot since the 6B mixup is also gone. Really hard to do CP combos like magnetized 3C>wiff AC combo fillers. I am not sure if I am rusty or if it were the cab's sticks, but definitely tried to grind out some 3C in gatlings: did not work.

2D is fatal combo, but haven't found anything to follow up without Rapid Canceling.

Spark Bolt and D moves not being able to follow up after Atomic Colider kind of sucks, but can always follow up with Gadget Finger.

Since your can actually play it at arcades here is where they are listing combos for you to try https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbcf%E3%83%86%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC?f=tweets&vertical=default&src=hash

You can always combo after mag or no mag Atomic Collider with 5A/2A>(combo) now.  ex: AC>5A>Spark

6A>3C was removed and replaced with many other options like 6A>(6B)>Asledge>5A or 6A>2C>Gadget whiff>5A or 6A>6B>CT 

example: 5C>6A>6B>6B>Asledge>5A>5B>3C>ACwhiff>5C>6A>2C>AC>GF 3986

 

Also Tager has the Highest damage hes ever had now

 

 

 

 

[Valthazeryus]

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

is this is saying new 360A has invincibility

Haven't really gotten to try it out on a real opponent. I have to try to just test things by playing against the bots.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

Does 2D still have projectile invuln like previous loke tests?

Will test out next time I go.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

if there are any changes to Air Buster?

Feels exactly the same, to be honest. Didn't notice anything. Not sure about the damage however since I didn't pay attention to that. The hitbox still feels like ass/small.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

Does both A and B sledge have normal startup guardpoint or is it just Bsledge, and if so how good are they if used as an anti air or reversal?

Will test out next time I go.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

How good is Catapault used as an anti air?

Seems a bit too situational, to be honest. Also, some characters with built-in crossup moves can just go to the other side of Tager if they time it right, like Azrael and Izayoi.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

What combos after normal hit 5D stagger without a rapid cancel?

Don't remember off the top of my head; was from muscle memory. Also, the wall bounce being gone really sucks.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

This video shows us that RC Catapault  Red Beat combos after normal 5D. Is this a property of catapault or is it a property of 5D stagger?  Meaning does catapult red beat in any ground combo or just after 5D? Does 360A also red beat combo after 5D stagger?

I honestly want to say this is because of the Wedge Catapult. I am absolutely positive that Wedge Catapult is programmed to not throw out purple throws and is also allowed for in combos. Wedge Catapult feels super long (it's not like the old 360 where you can hold it, its a fixed duration), so if it was a purple throw, I would kind be mad, to be honest.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/bbcf%E3%83%86%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC?f=tweets&vertical=default&src=hash

Thanks. This wasn't as extensive when I played because I went as soon as arcades opened because the arcade near my work is kind of ghetto(?). It only has 1 cab setup. Also all the kids are in school. First day sucked because people were respecting people's Sparring Modes. There weren't actual matches between players, like bigger cities like Osaka or Tokyo as you saw on stream, because people were trying to figure out new combos and frames. Also, was crowded because I went again to the arcades to observe during my work break, which is roughly when kids get out of school here.

44 minutes ago, TagerTime said:

You can always combo after mag or no mag Atomic Collider with 5A/2A>(combo) now.  ex: AC>5A>Spark

6A>3C was removed and replaced with many other options like 6A>(6B)>Asledge>5A or 6A>2C>Gadget whiff>5A or 6A>6B>CT 

example: 5C>6A>6B>6B>Asledge>5A>5B>3C>ACwhiff>5C>6A>2C>AC>GF 3986

Thanks, will try. Thanks for looking out for the combos. Honestly, getting Tager information is kind of slow since nobody really plays him on stream. And information from like RASUK, ZEL, etc didn't come out until like 11 PM last night. But looks like ZEL found a pretty nice Active Flow/Exceed Accel combo.

 

P.S. This new Dustloop formatting is real ass to work with. Couldn't delete the Twitter video (to make it less clumpy in the quote boxes), but they wouldn't delete. Nor would the quote boxes space out properly. Also, this Monday and weekend-ish is Japanese Thanksgiving, so I actually am not going to have time until Monday night. Sorry.

Btw, they posted the Exceed Accel combo.

 

[TagerTime]

Your right the new forum has been nothing but problems for me too. Thanks i hadn't seen that yet video yet its amazing. i love that finally now Tager can easily do over 10k like all those other chars could before. Soon ill post the videos in the video thread of the Tagers ive seen on stream so far.

34 minutes ago, Valthazeryus said:

Don't remember off the top of my head; was from muscle memory. Also, the wall bounce being gone really sucks.

For mid combo magnetism they changed the emphasis to using JD and 4D instead of 5D. i just hope the 5D stagger is long enough on normal hit to easily combo into without a counter. 5D is great on counter hit now though giving guaranteed catapault into 5k+ damage

44 minutes ago, Valthazeryus said:

Also, this Monday and weekend-ish is Japanese Thanksgiving, so I actually am not going to have time until Monday night. Sorry

Np ill look forward to Tuesday then thanks alot for your help!

[Snatcher]

I was feeling pretty doom and gloom about things just looking at the GF changes. I really thought we were in for another CT Tager! This new info makes it seem that he at least functions correctly. Thanks guys! 

[just some guy]

The 6C/3C gatling changes will be a bitch to readjust too, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the new game. Hell, CPE Tager took me months to actually enjoy playing.

[SoWL]

On 19.11.2015, 6:36:54, Valthazeryus said:

Tager's Exceed Accel is blockable, but is a grab animation. Seems to have invulnerability on startup. Does 4308 damage raw if you just enter Overdrive and push A+B+C+D again.

Remember that EA gets its damage boosted while in AF, usually from 2k to 4k. 

Genuine question: how much does the GF nerf hurt him? From what I understand, it kinda faded into obscurity even before the nerf, as the 4D oki is more common. 

[Snatcher]

1 hour ago, SoWL said:

Remember that EA gets its damage boosted while in AF, usually from 2k to 4k. 

Genuine question: how much does the GF nerf hurt him? From what I understand, it kinda faded into obscurity even before the nerf, as the 4D oki is more common. 

I was thinking about this myself. Hopefully they considered this and made 6B, 4D universal. 

[Valthazeryus]

7 hours ago, SoWL said:

Remember that EA gets its damage boosted while in AF, usually from 2k to 4k. 

Genuine question: how much does the GF nerf hurt him? From what I understand, it kinda faded into obscurity even before the nerf, as the 4D oki is more common. 

Honestly, from day 1 of playing, GF really felt like a whole step backward to CT era. It really felt like "what's the point?" from times. You could try to like Wedge Catapult now if you think they're going to mash a move, but generally people already feel they just got placed at a safe distance to even have the need to be aggressive. Like instead of GF>360A to catch out mashers, feels like it's just gonna have to be GF>360B.

Overall things I dislike is the Gadget Finger nerf and the 3C being overridden by 2C if used after 6A.

I am waiting to see what the top level Japanese Tager players can pull out of this montrosity.

[TagerTime]

Hey guys i updated the CF combo video thread with an amazing CF Tager combo video tutorial. Check it out!! http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/12116-cf-iron-tager-combo-thread/

CF Tagers combos are so flashy and cool, despite just being a couple of days old. The new Gurren Punish looks soo good. I wish Airbuster got the same recovery removal as GP did though.

[Darlos9D]

On 11/20/2015, 11:08:27, TagerTime said:

Hey guys i updated the CF combo video thread with an amazing CF Tager combo video tutorial. Check it out!! http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/12116-cf-iron-tager-combo-thread/

CF Tagers combos are so flashy and cool, despite just being a couple of days old. The new Gurren Punish looks soo good. I wish Airbuster got the same recovery removal as GP did though.

So far the most absurd thing to me is mag pulling them out of the corner, just so you can atomic collider them back into the corner.

Sigh, I might have to stumble back into this game again. I couldn't stay away forever.

[Valthazeryus]

Sorry I am late on my scheduled delivery time; bad weather.

360A, not sure if it has invulnerability cause it goes off really fast now. Like how old 360A, you can hold a bit and dodge moves that had shorter active frames, it's hard to test with the new one. The new 360A is now programmed to automatically go off anytime an enemy hitbox and Tager's 360A detection hitbox both are in range, grounded. So you can't hold it down at all anymore and it goes off all the time these conditions are met. It's really nice because it will catch them before they even enter the air. I don't know if some Tager players know what I am talking about, but I am talking about the feeling where you accidentally held 360 down for a frame longer when it could've connected, but they jumped that sliver frame.

Not sure however is this makings tick throwing timing a bit different now, for example off 6A>delay>360A. Must test next time. 

≫Can work, but a little bit more of a gap between the 6A and 360A tick.

2D is not projectile invincible. It was removed.

A Sledge doesn't seem to have the startup properties? Unless I mistimed the frames, but I kept getting countered.

360B can work off 5D stagger. 360A is a purple grab off 5D stagger.

Gadget Finger nerf doesn't feel a big deal compared to 2C nerf. Cannot Voltaic Charge (214D) to cancel 2; 3C is comes out a bit more delayed. Gadget Finger can be used immediately after 2C if 3C and 6C(?) were used previously in the combo? Not with 5C, however.

Using 2C for pressuring makes Tager super vulnerable. Must Rapid Cancel to be safe. Safer pressure combos is like 5A>5B>3C route instead of going for like the old 5A>5B>5C>6A>2C>3C route.

Can't seem to do super high jump cancel into jA>jC>jD>GP like in CP1 for most combos. Mainly have to just do jA>jB>jC>GP, making it harder to keep the magnetism momentum in favor.

[Hecatom]

So, what is the general consensu about Tager on CF?

[TagerTime]

On 12/14/2015, 5:34:24, Hecatom said:

So, what is the general consensu about Tager on CF?

Well hes definitely better than CPEX Tager. I don't really see any nerfs but all buffs or improvements (besides 720s damage lowered). From watching all of the CF videos (which he wins most of the time) and combos from jbbs:

• A buster still has Invuln.
• i see BSledge startup GuardPoint being used alot to successfully anti-air instant airdash jump-ins.
• Gurren Punish is a great solid safe air approach / jump in tool now. GP > falling jB or j2c used to consistently beat anti airs.
• They are continuously experimenting with Wedge catapults timing to beat all sorts of ground and air attacks. 360>GF>RC>WC>ID>GF>RC>WC>ID>GF apears to be a guaranteed unburstable red beat combo
• His combo damage seems High comparatively with the rest of the cast after the overall game-wide damage nerf. Combo damage with heat still very high. Higher damage ceiling. Many more opportunity to easily use RC or CT in combos for high damage with without supers. Fatal damage still over 5k meterless
• 5C, 6A, 6C and 360A look strong after gadget finger. it doesnt look like much of a nerf because Tager has way more frame advantage now. He tags people alot after gadget so its still a good move to always end combos in.
• His combos look better cooler and easier. Still plenty of mid combo magnetism. 6A>3C removal is a non-issue. combo routes are actually better now despite it. New AC and 5D is seem better overall than CPEX
• new 6C>5D corner loop seems pretty big at the moment
• At this early point he still is solid A/A+ tier at the very least.

[Darlos9D]

10 hours ago, TagerTime said:

Well hes definitely better than CPEX Tager. I don't really see any nerfs but all buffs or improvements (besides 720s damage lowered). From watching all of the CF videos (which he wins most of the time) and combos from jbbs:

• A buster still has Invuln.
• i see BSledge startup GuardPoint being used alot to successfully anti-air instant airdash jump-ins.
• Gurren Punish is a great solid safe air approach / jump in tool now. GP > falling jB or j2c used to consistently beat anti airs.
• They are continuously experimenting with Wedge catapults timing to beat all sorts of ground and air attacks. 360>GF>RC>WC>ID>GF>RC>WC>ID>GF apears to be a guaranteed unburstable red beat combo
• His combo damage seems High comparatively with the rest of the cast after the overall game-wide damage nerf. Combo damage with heat still very high. Higher damage ceiling. Many more opportunity to easily use RC or CT in combos for high damage with without supers. Fatal damage still over 5k meterless
• 5C, 6A, 6C and 360A look strong after gadget finger. it doesnt look like much of a nerf because Tager has way more frame advantage now. He tags people alot after gadget so its still a good move to always end combos in.
• His combos look better cooler and easier. Still plenty of mid combo magnetism. 6A>3C removal is a non-issue. combo routes are actually better now despite it. New AC and 5D is seem better overall than CPEX
• new 6C>5D corner loop seems pretty big at the moment
• At this early point he still is solid A/A+ tier at the very least.

Bolded part is probably one of the biggest things to jump out at me, for some reason. You'd think that GF leaving the opponent further away outside of simple jab range would be a bad thing, but its actually pretty fantastic. Because now we're outside of THEIR jab range, which lets us follow GF with a lot more things, more safely. Which means more big combo opportunities after GF. The days of doing mostly 5A starter combos are over.

Augh, man. I may seriously have to come back to BB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

[Valthazeryus]

Actually, 5A combos aren't that bad this version. And also, the option to do Gadget Finger after Gadget Finger while they are standing is kind of awesome mind game factor.

[Darlos9D]

12 hours ago, Valthazeryus said:

Actually, 5A combos aren't that bad this version. And also, the option to do Gadget Finger after Gadget Finger while they are standing is kind of awesome mind game factor.

I didn't mean to imply 5A combos are or even were bad. It's just nice to feel like they aren't the default option out of our biggest combo ending setup.

[Hecatom]

 

I like what I see with each new video.

[Darlos9D]

What are these GF > 5a > GF whiff shenanigans even.

Aaah because 5A actually combos after GF now. Useless for an actual combo, but great for a crazy setup. Very interesting. I guess you can do that if you miss the old GF distance, lol.

Also I didn't realize AC became so much better of an anti-air in CP. Also maybe this is just because the Haku was scared but he seemed to be whiffing ACs but not getting punished for it.

[Tae Seong Kim]

Been a while since I posted here....  But we just got CF at our local Round1 recently and I thought I give some insight on Tager from a Tager player.

The Gadget Finger distance nerf is real!  Yes, it has a lot more frame advantage.  However, it really doesn't matter since your main attack (5A) you use to challenge your opponent can not reach most of the cast.  5C and 6A are stronger here, but can be escaped with back dash.  Opponents are out of range of 720.  6B -> 2D and sledge hammer combo finishers are the way to go if your opponent is well magnetized.

You can combo into B buster and no purple throw exclamation point pops out on a staggered opponent.  A great way to combo after CH 5D.

FC 5C -> 6C doesn't work anymore

6A -> 3C doesn't chain anymore.

New B sledge properties are great.  It only loses armor when the attack is active.  Armor is not active on frame 1.

5D -> 6C loops are easy as hell.

Due to new game mechanic changes, you can not Voltic Charge Burst.  You have to RC or jump cancel your attacks to block Bursts.

I will say, he is a lot more fun to play!

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Hey fellow Tager players, just thought I'd drop a line, now that we're just a month away from CF console release. I am still an active BlazBlue Tager and once CF drops I plan on going absolutely ham on the version, as it easily seems to be the best version BB has ever had yet.

I'm still kind of sketchy about posting in matchup threads and stuff, but feel free to post here or PM me for Tager advice or discussion.

Apart from that, just feel like dropping my current opinion on CF Tager. I got to play him briefly at EVO but I've also watched plenty of footage.

 

• Gadget Finger: This originally seemed like a nerf but I see it as nothing but a slight buff now. Gadget Finger has a long animation that gives both parties ample time to plan their opening gambits once it has finished. This a simple + situation for Tager where each player is likely to input a move immediately, and how those moves interact will determine who wins the exchange. Previously, due to how close Tager was to the opponent, he was practically forced to use 5A as a meaty jab, which is a also terrible starter. The reason being that if he didn't use 5A he didn't have enough + to use any other move and would get CH by the opponent's own 5A. Now, the opponent's 5As no longer reach, some of their mid range moves don't even reach, this gives Tager a very powerful neutral position with frame advantage and the enemy in a good range for both his 5C, 6C callout, and more relevant: magnetism moves such as 5D/Catapult. So now, Gadget Finger puts Tager into a good neutral spacing, but also with a delicious chunk of frame advantage, and fresh magnetism to boot. Opponents still have similar options that they used to have, such as backdash or DP, but these are generally weaker due to the distance they are from Tager now combined with Tager's ability to overcome distance with his magnetism moves. Overall, this makes Tager's Drive mechanic more relevant to his battle flow and eliminates constant 5A usage from both parties after Gadget Finger. I hugely agree with the change.
   
• 5D: This is the most impactful nerf in my eyes, as 5D is one of Tager's best neutral options once he gets magnetism. In CPE he gets free combos on it almost anywhere even without CH or prior magnetism. But I don't fault the nerf because honestly I think it was a bit too good in CPE, and encouraged Tager's to use 5D excessively without considering his many other options.
   
• New command throws: These seem like immense fun now. I am glad they decided to reverse CPE 360B (now 360A) to a less ridiculous state. It's now a solid, reliable, all-around grappler throw that sets up his Gadget Finger and gets him into the game. I honestly think it was pretty silly how he could do 6k+ off of it previously in CPE. Wedge Catapult is a ton of fun to use, and you get a wicked grin on your face when it lands successfully. It's way better at pseudo-anti-air than old 360A ever was and can easily catch even moves like Jin 6B. Overall it makes Tager a bit scarier to try and attack, without being overly powerful due to it's long startup. Catapult serves a passive purpose of scaring magnetized opponents so they back off; putting them in ideal range of Drive attacks in neutral. Catapult also sets itself up for non-purple throws when gatlinged off of 6A, so 6A>throw mixups are more streamlined though not very different overall.
   
• Crimson Meteor/GP buff: This is a ton of fun, I love it. I always enjoy calling people out with GP and now I can do it relatively safely and follow-up with jB if I whiff. I didn't really get to test how effective it is as an RC combo starter, but GP has an incredible hitbox that can beat lots of air-to-air situations and even bait many anti-airs with ease. It now recovers super fast so you can expect to use it way more.
   
• Overdrive/EA: This change applies to all characters, but Overdrive is much more usable for Tager now. It was an almost irrelevant option in CPE for him, but now he can use it in the same capacity everyone else can, adding another option to this play not previously available. While the change affects everyone, due to Tager's lack of real use for it before, it affects him more noticeably than characters who had valid uses for Overdrive in CPE.
   
• Overall Impression: Tager seems very slightly weaker than CPE, but not significantly and as dedicated Tager mains get more familiar with his new options I expect him to be as identically competitive as he is CPE, and CPE Tager is one of the most competitive grapplers I know even against bad matchups. In CF, Tager players will learn to play lots more neutral and less reliant on constant throw mix-ups, which creates a more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, for both the Tager players and their opponents.  Throws are definitely still the defining part of his gameplay, but he now relies much less on ending the round in a single loop of Gadget Finger mixups.

[TagerTime]

Thank you Ctr for your detailed impressions. The japanese CF demo is out right now on PS4 so everyone go play CF Tager !

[Magnetic Neos]

Ctr you said crimson meteor was now viable as something to bait anti airs but what about puting it at the end of combos now.

Back when chrono phantasma launched i loved the crap out of this move it was so easy to put at the end of a very damaging meterless combo.

But in extend tagers air normals were nerfed so bad it was impossible to do anymore and i cursed whoever made this decision.

i heard it is now faster in both start up and recovery but what about its damage now?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

12 hours ago, Magnetic Neos said:

Ctr you said crimson meteor was now viable as something to bait anti airs but what about puting it at the end of combos now.

Back when chrono phantasma launched i loved the crap out of this move it was so easy to put at the end of a very damaging meterless combo.

But in extend tagers air normals were nerfed so bad it was impossible to do anymore and i cursed whoever made this decision.

i heard it is now faster in both start up and recovery but what about its damage now?

GP now has little use in combos, though there are situational times where you can end with it. Most notable is when you land a raw AC, or 5B>3C>ASledge>5A>jABC>GP but that's only for very situational confirms.

GP/Crimson Meteor now serves its main purpose as essentially Tager's double jump, and a new pressure extender. He gains a lot of vertical height with it now, and recovers almost immediately. You can do jC>GP>another normal with ease and cover huge distance now. It can also cover an opponent from trying to jump out, while still letting you pressure with jB afterwards. The additional height gain makes baiting AA's easier, but a bit more precise, as you'll often whiff even standing opponents if you input at the same time as you might be used to. Alternatively, you can bait an AA to whiff with it and try to jB punish afterwards. You can even do jB>GP whiff>jB for a double overhead or throw mixups. There's lots of uses for it in neutral now and I haven't explored them all. So while you won't see it in combos as much, you'll definitely see it used a lot more to pressure and control space.