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[CF] Hakumen General Discussion

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1 hour ago, Moblin said:

Ah, RIP to that idea.    I'm also noticing that Hakumens are using 6a a lot more during pressure.  Usually to catch up-backing.  Did something happen to facilitate that?

If I remember correctly, 6A is 1 frame faster and its level was raised from 3 to 4.

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On 1/11/2016 at 2:11 PM, The_undercover_beret said:

That's most likely the case, if 214A > 2C trully worked on standing then we would have seen 214A > 6A on standing as well (Since 6A is 1f frame faster than 2C in CF). However, so far on standing opponents, the only thing I have seen close to that in CF is 214A > 2A > 6A > 6B.

I used google translate on Camelia's evernote and it seems that there are 2 parts dealing with 214A > 2C combos.

It would be appreciated if a translator could provide a translation.

He didn't provide much that needed to be translated, but here you go. 

On a crouching opponent, you can go 2C into an aerial combo/hotaru combo. 
IE (j. B/j. 2C >) 5C > Gurren > 2C works since 5C forces crouching.


Off a normal crouch confirm out of an airdash/jump attack, you can just do these kinds of routes into 2C:
j. 2C, 2B, Gurren
j. B, j. 2A, 2B, Gurren
If you start your combo with an S starter (he says above N starter), as long as you do Gurren before the 4th hit, it will combo. So you can do 2A, 2B, Gurren, 2C, but not if you start with 2A, 2A.
--

(crouching opp) Gurren, 2C, aerial
(crouching opp) Gurren, 2C, Hotaru, j. 2C, 2C, aerial
Same as above, crouching only. A situation you might use this is forward jump j. 2C, 2B, Gurren against someone who's trying to read your 4C and sneak under with a crouching attack.

CH Gurren, 2C, aerial/hotaru combo
CH Gurren, optional 5C, special
From a raw Gurren CH, you can go straight into 2C/5C. We need to make sure we confirm properly when we catch people mashing.

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That's awesome, I was waiting for a serious combo theory video to come out.

 It's a relief since I always get into a new BB version by labbing up all the new combos that the JP players have already figured out for me. 

 

Some things that I noticed:

 

New OD combos aren't doing as much damage, but with an ender that costs 0 stars, it seems like we'll have more momentum to follow up after finishing an OD combo.  We'll have knockdown and quite a bit of meter, instead of blowing them away with Shippu and ending OD with 0-1 magatama as in CPE.  

OD combos and BnBs in general also seem to be getting more complex.

Hakumen's new BnBs seem interesting, but with more options come more character specificity.  For instance, 2b > Gurren whiffs on Azrael at most spacings and 6a > 6b, an important combo tool, whiffs on Amane in a lot of CPE situations.  I wonder what the adaptation might be for comboing these characters.

A lot of corner combos in that video didn't even use hotaru.  They did a lot of 6a > 6b, and Renka(2) airdash combos instead.  I wonder if that is to get more hits for active flow or if the combos actually do more damage than the established OD corner routes in CPE. 

 

 

 

 

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Using EA might depend heavily whether you've got active flow already or not, or the scaling of the combo when you use it.  Since it has no minimum damage it won't necessarily add good damage unless it's used early and in active flow already for the 4K damage version.  It will be useful though to use OD early in a match off of a confirm and finish it with EA to enter Active Flow and regain your burst quickly.

1 hour ago, Moblin said:

A lot of corner combos in that video didn't even use hotaru.  They did a lot of 6a > 6b, and Renka(2) airdash combos instead.  I wonder if that is to get more hits for active flow or if the combos actually do more damage than the established OD corner routes in CPE.

Most combo routes seem to want to incorporate 6A>6B mostly to get the bonus poration which seems to have an impact on damage since their opting to add in 5A and 5B P2 scaling into the combo instead of sticking with heavier B and C normals.

I'm not really sure if the Renka airdash route is better than the Hotaru corner combo routes since it looks like Renka might still has poor P2.

The video does show some pretty interesting routes to use. That's just my two cents.

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Does Anyone know the startup of Yanagi? I was wondering if you could somehow use Yanagi to slide out of the corner, out of litchi's distortion where she makes her staff into a doll and starts smacking you over and over. since its not like ignis or nirvana, there should be no physical hurtbox there to block u. Would it be possible to Yanagi out of it and just glide out ? I'm asking cus i have used 4c and hit her staff while its starting up that super, and during the start up it made a black void hole thingy, and it nullified her super.

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Sorry for the double post but, if Yanagi Blocks a projectile, can you special cancel out of it? I think i saw a hakumen do Yanagi vs lambda, and it blocked her drive sword, and he special canceled Yanagi into kishuu>enma. did i see that right? XD

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Yeah the dash after countering is special cancelable.  It's handy if the follow up is too slow to punish after countering something.

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On 24/03/2016 at 4:19 PM, MangoBlackTea said:

Does Anyone know the startup of Yanagi? I was wondering if you could somehow use Yanagi to slide out of the corner, out of litchi's distortion where she makes her staff into a doll and starts smacking you over and over. since its not like ignis or nirvana, there should be no physical hurtbox there to block u. Would it be possible to Yanagi out of it and just glide out ? I'm asking cus i have used 4c and hit her staff while its starting up that super, and during the start up it made a black void hole thingy, and it nullified her super.

I don't think the exact start-up has been revealed but Camelia's evernote said that it was "around" 4 frames.

 

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On 2/25/2016 at 6:00 PM, Moblin said:

That's awesome, I was waiting for a serious combo theory video to come out.

 It's a relief since I always get into a new BB version by labbing up all the new combos that the JP players have already figured out for me. 

 

Some things that I noticed:

 

New OD combos aren't doing as much damage, but with an ender that costs 0 stars, it seems like we'll have more momentum to follow up after finishing an OD combo.  We'll have knockdown and quite a bit of meter, instead of blowing them away with Shippu and ending OD with 0-1 magatama as in CPE.  

OD combos and BnBs in general also seem to be getting more complex.

Hakumen's new BnBs seem interesting, but with more options come more character specificity.  For instance, 2b > Gurren whiffs on Azrael at most spacings and 6a > 6b, an important combo tool, whiffs on Amane in a lot of CPE situations.  I wonder what the adaptation might be for comboing these characters.

A lot of corner combos in that video didn't even use hotaru.  They did a lot of 6a > 6b, and Renka(2) airdash combos instead.  I wonder if that is to get more hits for active flow or if the combos actually do more damage than the established OD corner routes in CPE. 

 

 

 

 

Nah the CP OD combo routes are still king in terms of damage.

 

The constant 6a-6b/ 5a-jb routes are for consistent reliable damage and gaining back more net loss meter so when you inevitably end your combo with a knock down youll have far more options remaining/ returning instead of just none.

 

Basically damage isnt always the best option especially concerning the nature of the game.

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