[CF] Bullet Gameplay Discussion

[RurouniLoneWolf]

New game, New gameplay discussion thread. Discuss everything gameplay related that doesn't fit into another Bullet thread here. Also, be sure to follow the site rules. 

[Corbenik]

Do we have any footage of her? Any tier info? How is the 5c change?

[RurouniLoneWolf]

There's a few links to stream archives with 1 or 2 matches of CF Bullet in the CF Bullet Final Changelist thread http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/12098-cf-bullet-final-changelist/

[Shin Oni]

12 hours ago, Corbenik said:

Do we have any footage of her? Any tier info? How is the 5c change?

https://youtu.be/-C03on6ujQA?t=1095

This was what I was watching yesterday. Tons of Bullet footage and the most i've seen so far. (in case it doesn't go straight to the time, it starts at 18:15). Some things to note:

Flint Shooter now goes under Izayoi's fireball. :/

I know it's still early but the guy had the opponent fall out of most of the usual air BnB enders (j.C>j.D) mainly due to the opponent recovering before j.D grabbed them. So guessing either gotta keep the combo count short or flat out not add in the extra minimal damage. Doesn't j.D come out faster then 5D? (It just looks like j.D is always in H2 status startup as opposed to 5D's CPEX startup) 

I'm seeing the go ground BnB being 2C>63214+D for the easy heat up since 5D doesn't connect off the usual ground BnB anymore. I know mechamcguyver pointed it out in his twitlonger but i'm sure we'll have to start finding things that incorperates 6B for the air launch into j.D. (only guessing that'd work and some of the reason it air launches on normal hit and got the increased horizontal range. Because 6B was already pretty gdlk to begin with.)

The fact her D followups add midscreen wallsplat means she doesn't always have to find a corner for damage. Or at least struggle midscreen with small not so worth it options. Corner combos still looked to be the optimal way to go since you still get H2 combos that lead back into H2 and corner game. TL;DR snapchance followup doesn't look like it sucks anymore for conversions.

Can't remember which match it was (maybe the Izayoi Match?) but Bullet player did 623+B>22+D>2363214+C and it missed. Yet another match he did the same thing and it worked. Only hoping he timed it wrong as opposed to the usual problem of Bullet's combos being inconsistent.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

13 hours ago, Shin Oni said:

Flint Shooter now goes under Izayoi's fireball. :/

Really? Wow. That sucks. I can only hope that this is heat dependent somehow. Also yeah. 2C > Afterburner's make me cringe right now. I am definitely praying for a breakthrough involving 6B launch combos.

I would really like to see some footage of better known Bullets show up in the near future. I'm curious to see how they're making use of the new 5D.

[Lunais]

So I played some more Bullet, a couple more things I forgot about.

- Flint shooter seems to have durability points.  You can clash with another projectile in H1-H2 and your Flint Shooter keeps going full screen. Should be because it has multiple hits now.

- The 2C>Afterburner is low dmg. You can combo into 6B for heat levels instead. Get more damage.

- I was using 5D catching movement options. It has more range +faster in getting to that size. I was catching Nu-13's D>teleport dash cancels when she was trying to teleport behind me. Valks dashes, air/ground backdashes ect. 

[Nyaa]

Still able to test things? Since afterburner is faster now, would for example combo into jD xx afterburner put bullet in +?

[PandaKingEX]

So is she showing any promise or is she officially a fanservice character? I really want to stay loyal to this character, but the matches I've seen so far have her looking a little unimpressive outside of faster afterburner.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Well, it's very early on and none of the Bullet players we've seen so far are the usual notable ones so I don't know if there's really anything to take away from these early match videos except specific changes and new tech.

On a somewhat related note, this Top 30 Dan rankings that Jourdal tweeted earlier today has a Bullet at the 20th spot. Doesn't mean much because of how early on it is but I'm quite curious about this Mshi Bullet since I've never seen footage of him before. I hope some footage of him will turn up in the near future. 0's Bullet would also be nice footage to see.

[Lunais]

A nice 10051 dmg comeback combo from Kure's page. https://twitter.com/kurenaineta/status/669911103229394944

[LionHeartx]

(this is regarded CPEX but I posted here since I figured its relevant enough even in CF)

so there are 3 MU's that I'm really struggling with and I wanted to see if there was any knowledge/tips/match footage yall could give me. 

-Jin 

seems like he has an answer to everything I try and on top of that his ground game and air game are too strong. even with H1/H2 it seems like he can just jump around with his dumbass air normals and either clash with j.D or hit it before red lock activates. I cant seem to stop him from just using j.2C to reset his pressure during his blockstrings because it seems like he either gets behind my 6b or he hits her before the head invul kicks in

-Terumi

this to me just feels like "wow I cant get around 5D" I was trying with 3C to low profile it but it seems that you can only low profile it during the start-up but not when its active. so it only works as a hard read. aside from that the MU doesnt seem bad I just really cant seem to find an answer to it. 5b/2b both lose, 3C is sketch, if you try and iad j.C at him near midrange to beat the 5D you could eat 6A or j.D. isnt his 5D a projectile? so maybe you could 236C through it?

-Nu

ok this just reminds me of some marvel 3 bullshit. the only thing I know about this mu is that you can afterburner some of her random D's for free heat

 

I think most of her other MU's while I'm running into problems I'm slowly find my own answers. but these 3 in particular I just consistently lose to the same thing.

 

thanks for any help

[Nyaa]

Please post this in the CPEX-threads, this thread is for discussions of her CF counterpart. She's quite different so a lot of matchups might be changed drastically in CF.

[SoWL]

Also, don't forget that we have the match-up subforum now, though some Bullet threads are still missing. The old subforum can be found over here:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/forum/243-bullet-matchups/

[Corbenik]

After watching some matches, she looks not bad now. I'm still not sure about the specifics of her drive's invuln or lack of invuln, but it works great for catching opponents that are trying to create distance. In Hiroshima vs Amipara the two Bullet players did quite well. Serpentine's short run up now makes it an ideal punisher for dp's which can be pretty game ending with how accessible her heat is. I also didn't really see either player use her more rewarding combos, so I'm hoping to see some more potential there. Her midscreen damage got nerfed, but that seems to be true of the entire cast, and the system changes gave her the defensive tools she really needed.

i thought I saw her drive go through or take priority over at least one attack, so I'm hoping to lab that out. I'd also like to see if there are any changes to snapchance, outside of it throwing farther and being able to follow it with a super.

[Lunais]

Any update on this? https://www.evernote.com/shard/s310/sh/c151782e-19e0-4871-9981-4105fcc9a522/52b38ab85603f9d98a28a411890b07c6

Also, 

 

[RurouniLoneWolf]

An update on what? If you're trying to get someone to translate that Bullet Okizeme document, it might be best to ping someone like @SoWL directly (Whoops, guess I just pinged him) and ask very nicely.

One more thing, that snaphance infinite was pretty neat.

One more thing, in case no one knew already, Futaba and Asai switched to Izanami. So if we add Kurenai now only playing her casually, not seeing MC footage since like December and 0 footage since like beginning of CPEX, we're running out of Bullets to watch. I think Rascal and Nochan are all that's left and they do some questionable things ;.;

One more thing, I finished that transition guide I was talking about with SoWL at CF launch. I finished it like 3 months ago but I've been dragging my feet posting it because I keep hoping to see some new footage of a great Bullet so I can add more content. I'm going to start working on other content for CF Bullet soon like her wiki, possibly a mixup+pressure thread and start compiling info on optimizing handling MUs. Feels like we're going to need every little bit of help we can get to survive CF 1.0 at the moment

One more thing, Played CF Bullet a bit while I was in Japan. Don't have anything report other than it seems like Bullet's j.D does have as much range as the old CPEX j.D if you do j.[D] but when the circle first appears before it starts growing, it's definitely much smaller than CPEX Bullet's j.D when the circle first appears. Also, doing the drive follow up to her command grab is one of the most satisfying things to do in the game for me right now, lol.

One more thing...Sorry. I just wanted to keep the gag going. I'm actually done. (I wonder how many people actually got the "One more thing" joke, lol)

[SoWL]

Oh, hey, this ping thingie works! Sure, I can try working on that tomorrow (a bit too sick for mental work right now).

I can see why people would switch from Bullet to Izanami: they have this brutal female thing in common, but Izanami has better chances of winning tournaments. Hell, I was thinking of subbing her in CF, myself.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

huh, now that you mention it, I guess I can see a bit of the crossover between Bullet and Izanami. She's a pretty cool character. If I didn't already have like a million characters I want to play in CF, I would probably sub her too, lol.

Also, thanks a lot for giving the translation a shot. I'm sure there's some interesting things for me to steal toss into the mixup and pressure guide I'm going to work on while giving proper credit ^,^

[Lunais]

Have no idea with this "ping" thing is about. If only Bullet could "run". Also do not know if you guys have seen one of her newer CF combo videos but its different and hella cool. Here ya go: 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28202784. Its NICO btw. I been playing her at Round 1 here in SoCal but I am trying to stick to CPEX Bullet offline for a little while longer until import version comes soon. I do not play on stick much so its "eh". I just practice the combos I see on the video I linked.

I LOVE her new command grab for mixups and her 720 dash range increase! 

Removing the SMP we currently have also makes Bullet more fun.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Sometimes, I call it pinging. Sometimes, I call it paging and when I'm on the receiving end, I even like to call it summoning, lol. But really I just mean using the @ UserName feature to send a notification to a person to grab their attention. It's a pretty useful feature when you need someone's input in a thread.

Bullet would be way better if she had a regular run dash but that's not what ASW was/is going for with the character. They want players to make smart use of good movement and her drive to make up for her lack of a run dash. It's just that they've never really gotten the balancing of the drive part right. CPEX was probably the closest they came to getting it right. Adding the ability to special cancel drives really boosted the rewards of hitting people with a lock on and increasing the range of j.D made it even easier to use in neutral. It felt like they were on the right road in CF with the changes they made to 5D and other adjustments. It's just that going into the last loketests they convinced themselves that the new 5D was too good and decided to nerf the pushback on block, which more or less ended up making 5D too risky to use for the most part. At least that's my interpretation of the new 5D. Who knows. Maybe somewhere in Japan off stream, 0 and MC are making great use of it.

I remember watching this CMV. I've been wondering why I haven't seen many JP Bullet players use them yet though. I'm curious if there might be some execution or stability issues. It could also just be that they don't know they exist or they're just not using them just because. I'll have to look into it when the console version releases. Have you had any difficulties practicing them at Round 1?

Oh I see. I guess you're mostly a pad player Lunais? I guess only being able to play CF on stick kind of sucks. Oh well. Doesn't hurt to get used to playing on stick. You might find yourself in Japan one day and want to play in arcades.

[Lunais]

 I think they just do not know about of them. I do these at Round 1 all the time in sparring mode, if you are a Bullet player you should have NO issue doing these 0.o. They are not execution heavy. I did not know about the double Snaphance Fist combo extension until this video. 

Yea, I am a pad player ever since Smash Melee days and moving on to other fighters I just never wanted to go stick. Ever since CF hit SoCal I really considered buying one but I always ask myself why unless I play in arcades from then on. Once we can import I can just stick to pad. Some things are even easier on stick but some are harder, just gotta get used to it more. 

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Didn't know you started off playing Melee. That's pretty neat. It makes since that you're pretty comfortable with pad then.

Also it's good to hear that the new double snaphance combos aren't demanding. I guess it really is possible that they just don't know about them then. I'm looking forward to learning them when console release happens ^,^

[SoWL]

I'm a bit late, but I finally finished translating that oki write-up. Some of it needs double-checking in-game (especially the Capture break one), but most of it makes sense to me.

http://pastebin.com/0FZSt8WT

[RurouniLoneWolf]

2 hours ago, SoWL said:

I'm a bit late, but I finally finished translating that oki write-up. Some of it needs double-checking in-game (especially the Capture break one), but most of it makes sense to me.

http://pastebin.com/0FZSt8WT

Thanks a ton for translating! Lots of good info here. Some things I knew, others i did not. One quick question though. There's several mentions of "Cross" in the translation. Is this referring to the new command grab? I didn't know the official name of it until now.  

I did not know Cutting Shear no longer gives untechable knockdown. Oof, ASW really is just piling on the work needed to keep playing this character in CF. At least that explains all the rising j.A stuff I've been seeing and the awkward Capture Break enders. 

Afterburner ender having better advantage if the move that hit before it was an air hit is a pretty nifty detail to know. I wonder how much more we're talking about though. It's worth experimenting with. 

Bullet's EA giving you more + on hit than other EAs is a nice touch.  

[SoWL]

Yeah, I had to double-check, but Cross stands for Crossfire Wheel, the 360B command grab. Since there's no clear consensus on how to call it in the English-speaking community yet, I've decided to leave it as is.