(CF) My thoughts on CF Celica

[HeartNana]

Ok so CF has been out for a few days now. In one sentence, my opinion on the new Celica is summed up as this: Not a strong character in this game.

 

So let's go on about things she's gained/lost. First off, she's a lot different. She gains blue life by hitting the opponent with drive on hit/block. If you do the 3rd hit of drive (no matter what the first two are, the third one is always the same) and it hits, she will charge a little and gain up to about 15% of her total lifebar back (if you have more blue life than that, it remains). Also, she keeps the life when she gets hit. You can cancel out of that last hit with any special after it hits as well. Do also note that if you do 214C, 214B, or 236C, that her blue life will go away and those moves will be "powered up". 214C powered up means the opponent goes spinning on the ground and allows for a combo after a grounded 5B 5C in the corner. It also makes hitting with the flames only a lot easier. 214B powered up gives the move a bit more range it seems and it bounces them higher allowing you to do a combo in the corner easily or just a 214C midscreen. Whether this is good or bad, I'll voice my opinion on later, but this is just how it is now.

 

Things she's gained: 

- 236C absorbs hits instead of just getting hit out of moves at the beginning. This is pretty nice because it means im less "oh crap im in the corner i die now" than before, imo.

- 2C pulls the opponent in on hit/block, making it easier to combo opponents that are a little far away. Also good against opponents in the air.

- 5C is only one hit now (neither good nor bad?) but it's now jump cancellable on hit.

- Can manually input special moves during Celica's drive.

- Can heal a bit of damage by doing drive moves on hit/block. 

- 214B doesn't need to be cancelled to combo in the corner

- 214C doesn't send the opponent flying as far, so you have better wakeup.

- Heal super heals all blue life and recovers very quickly.

- Overdrive heals regular life and gives a lot of blue life. This is her strongest change by far, and the only reason I can even win with her.

- Ground throw doesn't shoot the opponent far, they go in front of you making it very easy to combo.

- 6A might be easier to combo with midscreen? I dunno that move is bad and I wish she just didn't have it because 9/10 times when I do it, it's unintentional and I get hit.

- 236B seems a little faster? Not terrible but still doesn't go fullscreen.

- j.214A trajectory changed so it's easier to hit after j.C

Things she's lost:

- [214C] - This is such a huge loss, it boggles my mind how they let it happen. She used it in combos all the time, and they took it away and there's really nothing "replacing" it, she just gets less damage.

- [214B] - This one to a lesser extent. Not used as much as 214[C] but still nice to have for some combos.

- Any of her 3rd hit drive moves. While you can cancel out of her drive moves into specials, you can only do it ON HIT. I used to bait my opponents with the 3rd hit of 5DDD, and because of how (5DD)2D slammed, I was able to get combos off of things like j.D5D2D dash 2A 5B 6B 5C 5D 6D 6D for a good 2800 damage or so. Now that's impossible. Her 3rd hit of drive isn't terrible but it would rather actually have options instead of being stuck with that one move.

- 632146B isn't invulnerable anymore. It was invul and it was a great tool to be a little safer in the corner than 632146C, but now it has 0 invul and i got hit out of it just about everytime. It used to be good to stop things like full screen Tager ball, jin projectiles, rachel super etc. Now it's just kinda garbo.

- 632146C doesn't do a bunch of hits on block anymore. It seems less safe and easier to punish now, I noticed my opponent able to move very quickly after blocking it.

- 236C got improved hitbox wise, but on counterhit, my opponent flies all the way up in the air and i cant do anything. If i had a mini "on my own no meter can heal" thing, that would be great, but she doesn't have anything like that. It used to be great for getting damage but now it just sends them flying away and is kinda "meh". Especially because a lot of other characters can still combo off of their DPs.

- Overall lower damage. j.DDD has low damage, even if I can combo from it in the corner, I only get about 1700 and a bit of healing. Drive moves do practically no damage. 2B 5B 3C 2D 6D 214B 5B 6B 5C 5D 5D 5D does about 2000 damage. Her damage is pitiful. The second hit of 5DD used to do a lot but now it barely does anything. This is the biggest issue so far. 

- j.214A into rapid into combo is gone. They bounce out now. One of the few ways she had to deal decent air to air damage is just gone, even if I rapid the only thing I've been able to get is a single j.B. It can still combo into a move after hitting a ground opponent and using a rapid but an air opponent can just tech when they hit the ground. Another nerfed damage point.

- You can barrier her moves and she moves away now. Before if you barrier'd against her, only 2A and 5A cause pushback (because that's actually celica hitting). 2B 5B 2C etc caused no pushback because it's the robot doing the hits. This was huge for her pressure game. Especially helpful because she has terrible range. Now it's easy to just pushblock her away and not have to worry, and the celica player is now forced to act a lot faster than before with offensive pressure options.

- Second hit of 5D2D has barely and pushback and is now punishable instead of being the "safe" option.

 

The problem I have is a lot of the issues I wanted fixed with Celica weren't touched. Things like j.214A being unsafe on block (cmon, just make it a little safer?). Things like the second hit of j.5DD whiffing sometimes on opponents. Things like 5B 5C 214C not connecting because despite the opponent being at the tip of the moves, they were a little too far away for 214C, which doesn't help cause she has poor range anyways. A long range option that doesn't suck would be nice (hence why i want j.214A to be safer). A little more range on her 5D to make it easier to connect against opponents. A low/mid drive mixup. Her airthrow not being a stupid wall bounce. Nothing. Not a single problem fixed. They took something that people didn't ask for, and tossed that in the game.

In addition to that, things that I had issues with about other characters are all still in the game. None of those other characters got nerfed or seem to have stuff taken away. Celica has so much thats just gone, yet a lot of other characters are unaffected. Things like hazama snake into air throw from behind, relius simultaneous dodge/doll punch, azrael backdash being complete invul, and his forward dash being too fast to react too, his j.C having a huge hitbox that allows you to hit pretty much anywhere with it and then combo. Then they added new characters that have way more tools/damage. I struggle to get 2500 damage, and a lot of characters are easily hitting 3500 no meter.

 

Anyways, enough complaining. Some more random things:

"Big damage" only comes from 5B 5C 214C (corner and you need blue life, which is pretty hard but whatever) and anything that goes into 6C. I can get 3000 damage on a counterhit if i do CH5B 6C 5B 6B 2C 5D6D 214C (only if you have not-full health, and only on some characters, this is the from behind flames hit, not the actual hit) 5B 6B 5C 5DDD or whatever ender. Hopefully a better combo is found but despite hitting with flames only 214C, but yeah.

Midscreen ending strings in the 3rd hit of D to 236B is strong, but she recovers decently fast in the corner so its generally worth it to just heal and then pressure. 

Third hit of drive is safe on block. Does a lot of damage on counterhit and if you can rapid just that and dash up 6C or something, you can get decent damage. Not gonna happen that often, though.

Here's how I played Celica:

I would hope to hit them, get them in the corner and then pressure and gain life. If I got hit, i wouldn't burst, I would just do overdrive. On wakeup it's a pretty good option, even for her at half health. If you can get around 6 seconds that's generally enough. If you can get away because of overdrive or even hit your opponent, you're in a good spot, as you can heal a lot. If you hit them a couple times with a drive finisher, you can recover a lot. If you get a lot of blue health and didn't recover it, then doing her healing super from far away is great, doesn't take too long and feels good to get all that health back. Because of the weird system that allows you to sometimes get burst back quickly because of something you did, you can do this multiple times in a round if you're lucky, and play well enough to not get hit during the overdrive. If you manage to heal back your health multiple times and hit your opponent, then you're in a pretty good spot. It's mostly just a game of footsies then "ok im gonna heal now" when you're at a low enough life (anywhere around half your bar gone is a good time to overdrive, and if you hit your opponent and you don't have much life left, overdriving is a pretty good option. It means they have to chase you down and if you can hit them, then you're in a really good spot as you gain a lot of health back. This is the best part about this character, as it can be really hard to kill her, and if she gains enough life, it can be really demoralizing to have to do so much more work to kill her.

She doesn't have much damage so you just kinda have to hope you can heal a lot and hit your opponent enough that you can kill them. She still feels very weak and I feel like the stuff we lost wasn't worth the goofy "im gaining life with overdrive" game that she's all about now. She was more fun in CP imo, but it's still early. I don't know how balls deep I want to go into this game because it seems like a very uphill battle for a lot of matchups but part of me is still holding out hope that she's not actually really bad, and her damage isn't ACTUALLY that low...

[TD]

She sounds gimmicky now... Damn if she kept her non-pushback moves none of this nerfs would even matter lol

 

thanks for the write-up. Hope she gets developed soon, right now the game plan doesn't pique my interest as it did before, she might have to be on the back burner until she gets some time to develop.

[Dawn of Musou]

Thanks for the write-up, was a pretty interesting read. Her combo rate or her drive damage definitely got a nerf. Where something like 5B>5C>3C>any D string would do at least 2.6-3k in CPEX, they do like 2k or less in CF. So I also thought she had some terrible damage, not even breaking 3k on corner combos at first. However I saw some interesting routes on a stream the other day. I'm labeling specials using blue HP as hpinput, makes more sense to me (so like hp214C etc). Corner routes would be something like 5B>2C>3C>6D1>hp214C>2C>5D1>hp214B>6C>jc>j.D>6D2>D3(>236B>C super/B super for extra 1k) for like 3.3 k without the supers. 236B is much faster, and even tho it doesn't go fullscreen, it's a legit combo tool now. Celica recovers much faster, so you can go from 236B>B super or C super from fullscreen even, and do good damage. Can also follow it up midscreen. A combo like 5B>2C>3C>5D1>236B>5B>stuff did a solid 3k midscreen. So overall I don't think her damage is gonna be bad, might be lower than last game when she was getting 3-5k meterless but there's definitely potential here. So don't feel like she's terrible just yet! Since it's just week 1, we got time to see her develop.

 

Corner combo training stuff

Midscreen 236B stuff

Here's another write-up from a player that got to try Celica out for 9 hours at Round 1

 

[HeartNana]

Cool, I'll try those combos out if I get a chance to play today! If I can get them consistently, I might have a chance again!

[HeartNana]

After playing more, Celica isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Her range is improved mainly because of 2C. It means you can hit something from pretty far away and still pull them in enough to get a combo. something like anti air 6B 2C j.BC double jump j.BC j.214A can do a pretty good amount of damage.

I also discovered you can do specials after the 3rd hit of her drive EVEN ON BLOCK. This is big because it adds one more thing the opponent has to look out for. I've been hitting opponents with the third hit into overhead a bunch, and then other times i wont do anything and they just kinda back away, which is also nice. 

I found out you can do overdrive and then right away do the overdrive only attack by simply just holding A+B+C+D.

Her new combo route (whatever into 3C 6D 214C 2B 6B 5C 5D 214B 5B 6B 5C 5D6D5D is what ive been using) is pretty high damage, has a heal at the end, or you can cancel that into laser super. Nice wakeup, good damage, the whole package. If you start with a 2A, just continue the 5D into drive and dont cancel it into 214B, youll still get close to 2000 i think.

You can do astral from j.DD, i hit someone with it today when he had his burst and he wasn't expecting it, lol.

Doing something like j.BC double jump j.BC j.DDD or whatever is sweet.

After a midscreen combo into 5DDD, shooting the projectile and hitting them, then doing another one is good, it hits rolls and if theyre the type who lays there, you can def pick them up and get a pretty much unscaled combo.

6A is actually useful in the corner because of how much damage it does and how easy it is to do a combo with it. I get about 2700 with a 100% not optimal ender (6A 2A 5B 6B 2C j.BC j.BC j.214A)

Her second hit of 5DD goes faster than before, and can actually be used as SOMETHING to fight against nu since most of our other moves dont work. 6C pulls the opponent a little in on block, so it can actually be used in pressure strings as a little delay (they get CH if they try to push buttons) and if they block you can do something.

Her new DP really is better than before. It just feels better and i hit with it way more than i hit with the other one. It's also so much nicer to just do 236C than having to do a DP motion haha.

Barrier also seems to push back pretty far. Its easier for me to get out of pressure midscreen simply by barriering, blocking, then backdashing at any slight opening.

Some character are too light/heavy/weird to get hit by 6C 5B 6B 2C 5D (the 5D whiffs), but I tried doing 5C instead of 2C and it worked vs Nu-13. Then you can do 5D 6D 214C (flames hit) into whatever ender lol. TBH the combo looks cool but seems pretty worthless when just doing a 5B 6B 2C j.BC j.BC j.214A does almost as much and pushes them to the corner better with better wakeup.

Not sure if she had it in the other game but im able to do 5A into j.AB double jump j.BC j.214A, it seems to be pretty solid, and I know Mu couldnt do 5A into any air followup in BBCP.

Also having overdrive be as good as it is, having the 236C punch, having celica super etc really gives a lot of options, and I'm able to get out of the corner way more consistently than i ever was in BBCP. So many options, it's nice that I'm able to work with them.

Also I definitely didn't realize just how good her fireball got. I knew it got better but it's actually really good now. I use it quite a bit, obviously against Nu/Mu/etc I can't, but against fair characters, it puts in quite a lot of work and gives me great wakeup.

So yeah, I might not be the best Celica player but I made it to 12th dan with her and I'm doing way better than I was doing before. I don't think she's great by any means (so many other characters still have so many dumb things), but I no longer think she's unplayable/jokingly bad. So atm, my thoughts on Celica are she's "good enough for now, I suppose"

[HeartNana]

Ok been a while!

 

I've played quite a bit of CF. I hit 21 Dan and am currently the #3 ranked Celica (though ofc this is only for the day, but still). So I've been through quite a bit and I have about 700 matches under my belt.

 

Celica is crazy strong compared to how she used to be. Her overdrive is absolutely broken. It's probably the single best overdrive in the game. The amount of life she can gain back is crazy. I've made so many comebacks just from activating overdrive, my opponent whiffing (maybe a throw or overhead or something), hitting with a combo, gaining back a bunch of life, doing another combo, gaining back more life, and ending up close to full life while my opponent is now down to about 50%. Essentially trading life totals. It's too good, ragna has very slight lifegain but Celica's is crazy.

 

She has low maximum damage (no 9500 damage combos like hakumen, sorry!) but she has decent damage off of quite a few options, and most end in life gain. Midscreen she can do stuff like 2B 6B 2C 3C 5D 214B dash 6C j.C 6B 5C 5D6D5D for 3000ish. Her 2B is really good, and her 2C pulls opponents in, as does her 6C, and while its not as good as it used to be (no pushblock, which is kind of a dumb thing anyways), 2A 2B 2C 6C pulls the opponent in decently close and allows you to continue pressure, or try for overhead over do whatever. She has decently high throw damage. Her airthrow still kinda sucks compared to some characters' but it's still good enough. Her corner combos allow for just such a better wakeup game than before. She can really keep the pressure on against most characters.

 

I said in the original post that she was nerfed in a lot of ways. Now that a lot more of her potential is unlocked and combos are being optimized more, she's far better than I originally gave her credit for. There's still a few things I wish they would change to help her out a bit, but compared to CPEX, this version Celica is a godsend. I would like CH 236C to not shoot the opponent up a gazillion feet in the air, but rather let me combo. I would like her laser super to have invul again. It would be nice if I could still gain "blue life" even at full life so I don't have to do crappy low damage combos just because my opponent hasn't hit me yet. However, despite these lack of "these would be nice" things, she's still a pretty solid character. I have trouble with characters like Litchi, Carl, Relius. Those types of characters are pretty rough for me. Obviously I still lose to better players no matter who they use, but I have an especially hard time dealing with characters like that.

 

So yeah, people looking forward to playing Celica in CF, she's way better this time around. However, she plays a bit different, so you're going to probably have to change up a lot of your gameplan anyways. It took a long time to learn a lot of her new stuff, but it's worth it if you really want to use this character!