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[CF] Hazama Gameplay Discussion Thread

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http://kurushii.tv/Dustloop/BBCF/Graphics/Hazama/BBCF_Header_Gameplay_Discussion.png
Gameplay Discussion Rules
  • Remember to keep the discussion Hazama and gameplay related. 
  • Discussion about specific matches and players is fine too.

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So I've been playing a little BBCF at round1 and I can say that the character is pretty much the same. They tweaked a lot of things with Haz which I think are for the better. But I want to touch on two things that really changed that you're definitely going to notice when the game comes out.

1. Chains
You pretty much have to get used to not getting back your chain stocks when your opponent blocks them now. On top of that, we only have two chains to work with. Which means we have to step up our game. So if you fancy flying around the screen like a mad man with 3 chains, you're definitely going to miss that. On the positive side though It seems like B and C followups are little bit faster. I mean I can't really confirm if C followup is faster but It really feels like it. So I really want to say that it is. As a buff, there is no hitstun proration for using the same chain.
So something like; (5c > 3c > 214B ~(quick)66b > dash 5a > 5b > 5c > 4d > 4d) would work
This could possibly open some doors to new OD combos. https://youtu.be/0BRVN4UOpUs?t=1m8s
You can see that he gets away with doing two 5d's and then finishing off that standing confirm into hotenjin.

2. Hotenjin
They completely got rid of all invulnerability frames on this move. So there are going to be times when you're buffering it and realize that it's not going to work. They made the startup faster for hotenjin so now a 3c that is sort of placed a little far away can be confirmed. Probably not like a max ranged 3c but I think you get the point. Hotenjin traded a lot of the time and wasn't the best invulnerable move anyway. Inferno divider straight up beats it. IIRC it's now a Fatal Counter? So trading with this move still might be viable in those special situations. Maybe when playing footsies or during grounded neutral. It might even be worth it to use all 100 meter to RC it if you have low enough health + OD. The only real reversal he has now is his EA.

Some other important stuff to note;
Honestly it still feels like you can get away with canceling your normals into stance when the opponent blocks. So I was really perplexed on why they gave him this new move. It forces him into stance but he can just feint in a few frames. On hit you might even be able to bluff stance mixup into feint for a bait.
With the opponent's back towards corner (3c > 236a > *5c) has strict timing. Jabaki no longer wall bounces, so you have to catch them sliding and hit them with your 5c. It's more consistent to just go with 5b instead.
(Zaneiga > 5c > *6c) The 6c almost always drops. I don't know what's causing this to happen. Honestly just omit the 5c and go straight for 6c or dash 6c judging on your spacing.
After hitting the 5d > 214d ~ 66a > dash 5c > 2c > you can get 6d here and then you get the 4d into the rest of the combo. It should work on the majority of the cast.
Lol his command grab actually does damage now. I think the damage on it is 660?
His new air 214b makes his oki from air combos better. Will definitely explore on that later.
He's still really fun so don't think about dropping him yet. 

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Very slight buff, any hit of Mizuchi now can kill now. In the past, there were times when Mizuchi would've been the easiest option for the kill, but you wouldn't go for it because it'd build up a lot of burst meter for the opponent. It also applies to its OD ver

It's something I guess

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On 11/26/2015, 12:31:05, Selektah said:

With the opponent's back towards corner (3c > 236a > *5c) has strict timing. Jabaki no longer wall bounces, so you have to catch them sliding and hit them with your 5c. It's more consistent to just go with 5b instead.
(Zaneiga > 5c > *6c) The 6c almost always drops.
 

The change to jabaki is really bad. I kept seeing players netting a 3C into jabaki but because they were slightly off from the corner, they can only convert into 3C > jabaki X N. Used to get 3K-ish from 3C starter. Welp.

Does Zaneiga > 5C(1) > 6C work?

20 hours ago, Putin said:

Very slight buff, any hit of Mizuchi now can kill now. In the past, there were times when Mizuchi would've been the easiest option for the kill, but you wouldn't go for it because it'd build up a lot of burst meter for the opponent. It also applies to its OD ver

It's something I guess

I thought why they went back to distortion not ending on the last hit but now I understand.

So far, the notable Haz I saw is Yuika who has been playing a Jameijin Haz :heh: I'm not sure but he seems to be able to whiff Jameijin into stance quite fast (low recovery?). 

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Yeah Hirentotsu 2.0 recovery looks real good, it's like a better alternative to j.2DD for the rare times you'd want to land asap.

It should also be an ok anti-antiair, since I doubt it'll be any less than -2 on block given how short the landing recovery is, if there's any. We already have j.4D for that though but w/e, Jameijin CH is more rewarding.

Unfortunately, that's not redeeming enough. This is the first time a new Haz is out and I'm actually nervous about whether they'll find real damage routes or not. 5C > 6C not working most of the time is definitely the major culprit here, since that's all you'd need in the corner even after the new lackluster Jabaki. 6C > 5D > Ressenga > 2 chains > aerial would net him almost the same damage he's getting in CPEX

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I'm going back again today

I'll test if 5c(1) > 6c will be more consistent.

Jameijin is great. It changes the neutral a little because you don't expect haz to get back to the ground that quickly. You can clip people with it if they're trying to reach for you in the air. It's safe on block as far as I know. Don't quote me on this. You can do it after chains to get to the ground faster and doubles as an anti-anti air. The most important aspect of this move is the oki it gives. I feel like you have a better shot of utilizing command grab/crush trigger/stance as mixup since we land right next to them with a couple more frames to act. Once your check their rolls of course.

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I see. I'll definitely try and abuse Jameijin when the game hits the console haha.

Btw it feels pretty weird that a bbcf Hazama combo video hasn't surface yet since in the past, his combo video is one of the first fews to appear on niconico quickly. Sure, technically his combo didn't really change much which is true for most of the casts but even so, IMO it's like they are saying this version of Hazama isn't worth making one. Maybe it's just me and hopefully it's the former.

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For corner routes I guess the best option is going to be: 3C 236A d.2B 5C air stuff...
Anyway, anywhere on screen you should be able to combo 5C 6C 5D~D j2C ... on a crouching opponent, I saw that in one of the earlier vids, this might lead to something good/interesting.
6C pushes back haz even further now, I think.

He is looking VERY boring this time around, mostly nerfs (corner combos are just sad so far) and nothing new to play with except for system mechanics... Mitsurugi saying he might switch to Terumi has made me feel quite hopeless about CF Haz tbh.

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Honestly he's still pretty fun. Not as good as before but I'm really liking the changes. It really makes me appreciate how much freedom we had with stance before CF. But even with the change, he thrives on that stance mixup.

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Oh and 5c(1) > 6c can connect after a good starter. Still not consistent enough for me personally.

I'm really bummed that mizuchi does less damage. You honestly have to restrain yourself from using it because most of the time if it's a long combo, it wont kill.

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Like after raw zaniega it's definitely reliable.

So for corner combos ;

3c > jabaki > 5c > 214b ~66b > 5b > 2c or 5c > 4d > j.c x5

Will improve on this later. Wasn't paying attention to how much damage it did. I wanna say it was a little over 3k.

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Thanks for these. Man his corner combo looks really meh and indeed boring :(

Btw, just watched a Maximhero video where it has Noze Vs Ikemen (reminder of that beat up from last week :v) and I want to point put that Jameijin's hurtbox is probably shit or Az's 2B hurtbox is really small. 
 

Spoiler

 

ja1.PNG

ja2.PNG

 

 

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Mitsurugi is #2 in the dan ranking right now... with Terumi.
Pack it up boys :toot:

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4 hours ago, Selektah said:

https://youtu.be/mJcP8wXBdIQ?t=14m21s
This is a good example of how zaniega changed. I don't think it's just the spacing here.
He should've punished with 3c though.

I did see zaneiga beating EA too which was pretty lol.

4 hours ago, _Sey said:

Mitsurugi is #2 in the dan ranking right now... with Terumi.
Pack it up boys :toot:

Ayy.

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^Getting 3.7k off CH jabaki is really good. Also 2.4k ~ 3k cmd grab and 2.5k ressenga. 

It didn't occur to me that the slide from jabaki can be combo'd into mizuchi rekkazan.

So 2D has 110% bonus proration and apparently both non-charge/charged zaneiga has body invul frames? Make sense since I saw non-charged/charged zaneiga outright beating an EA and probably that clash with Kagura's DP in the 4 posts above.  

From the description on nico, if I'm not wrong, there's two more coming next week. Obviously, one being corner stuff while apparently the second one is corner side swap stuff(?).

Excited about the corner stuff since what we have seen is pretty demoralizing. Will be kind of funny if the midscreen combo is better than the corner :v:

 

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Hazama's combos have been getting fucked up in the corner for the longest time now, it's just that he had much better corner specific alternatives most of the time.

Stray confirms into chains were always an issue in the corner for example, like AA 5A > 5C > 4D being very likely to drop because of the chains' min range. Or more damaging sideswap routes when you're a little too close to the corner.

I also want FC Jakou > 4j.6D to work on Hakumen, it sucks when you get such a hard read and you can't convert it into anything meaningful, while it can get you 4.5k+ meterless on most of the cast. Fuck Hakumen

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Finally, something half-decent in the corner https://youtu.be/xO5MoNF_gjs?t=1h3m51s

He finished the exact same combo earlier on in the same video, but I'm linking this timestamp since it showcases how far off the corner it can be confirmed from. The ender was just sj.B > j.C7 > Jameijin by the way.

Jagai Gasshou > 66 5B > 5C > 4D probably won't work, except for maaaybe when/if you can omit the dash, but close range 5C > 2D sounds more plausible, albeit distance specific as well.

starter > 3C > Jabaki > 63C / 66 5C > Jagai Gasshou > 66 5B > 5C > 2D > Ressenga > 5C > 2C > (4DD >) aerial might be a thing. Here's to hoping. I still don't get why they took out Jabaki stance cancel though :v

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I don't know if this is common knowledge, or if this is shared somewhere else, but I found that you can bring out Hazama's super command grab really easily thanks to the games input leniency.  Doing 61234D and then quickly inputting 6D will cause him to do the super. 

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