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Accent Core Venom Thread

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Oh I have a couple of more questions about the DC lops. When i DC don't I have to cancel the dc with a FRC to do the combo. An also Does the dummy always have to be set to counter hit and recovery for this combo to work.

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can't say for 100%, but i believe the way it works is, for the DC loop, if you pop them out of the air with DC (via 6H or 5S (3) ) then you don't need anything else to start the loop, just 2S > DCs xN but if you hit someone grounded, like 5S > 5H > DC, then you need to do something else, like 2P or FRC

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@Taco You can only do the tensionless Dubious Curve loop off of an airborne opponent (that is S.Dubious > 2S xN). Common setups for this begin with 5S.c(x3) and 6HS. However, if you want to loop off of a 5H or something of that sort, you'll need to FRC the first Dubious Curve. The best time to use the loop is when your opponent still has burst or if you need to finish them off. The reason I say this is because Dubious Curve builds a huge amount of burst gauge for your opponent, so keep that in mind. edit: faulty beat me to the punch :P

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thanks yall for the help. I'll get back to practicing it. And that makes soo much sense. Cuz when i was studying some of NO's vids he had did the dc loop after hitting jam out of the air, With no tension. But yeah thanks again.

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Aside from the standard dubious curve loop, you could also opt for the variation, which contains only three reps, but it ends with you having a 3-ball setup. Isamu takes a strong liking to this version of the dubie loop. corner throw > k DC > 5k > 6p > DC > s/d ball > 2s > DC > ball summon The same combo works from the setups that everyone else mentioned above, except in cases where Venom is too far away to land the otg 5k. In cases where you're trying to do it on a grounded opponent, like FaultyDefense mentioned, it would warrant frc'ing the k DC and a slight dash-in to get in range in order to continue with 5k > 6p and the rest of the loop.

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Aside from the standard dubious curve loop, you could also opt for the variation, which contains only three reps, but it ends with you having a 3-ball setup. Isamu takes a strong liking to this version of the dubie loop.

corner throw > k DC > 5k > 6p > DC > s/d ball > 2s > DC > ball summon

The same combo works from the setups that everyone else mentioned above, except in cases where Venom is too far away to land the otg 5k.

In cases where you're trying to do it on a grounded opponent, like FaultyDefense mentioned, it would warrant frc'ing the k DC and a slight dash-in to get in range in order to continue with 5k > 6p and the rest of the loop.

Isamu's setup (for people who would like to know specifically) is:

launch or throw > K.Dubious > S.ball > 2S > HS.Dubious > S.ball

Off of this setup you can dash-jump > j.S and use the balls behind you in a Stinger Aim once you land to carry on your pressure for free, or you can backdash > 2P then continue your ground pressure. The setup allows for a bunch of variety in mixups and messes with your opponent's head. When anyone sees that many balls, they're going to block.

And to preemptively answer this question, the trick to performing this setup is making sure you summon the S.Ball after K.Dubious ASAP.

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Thank you all, this thread is very useful for beginners. Excuse me my english please, it's not my native language.

I usually play with some friends, so our level is far from competitive, but we are training slowly.

It seems, however, that i'm "doing wrong" a couple of things, so I need your help.

1) I suck in air. What normals should I use against Millia and Dizzy, for example? Dizzy jumps, I jump -> I get owned by j.HS. If i'm higher than they, i can use Mad struggle, but when I'm lower? In videos some people use j.D, but I can't find proper timing. Any tips?

2) I can pretty well use TK version of FB mad struggle, but is it useful in air?

Also:

Mad Struggle - 236+D (air) - Hot damn. 14F of start-up, and a fat fucking launch on hit. The go into a pretty long stun on block, meaning you don't lose pressure if you air-dash back in.

I can't air-dash afer this is blocked (well, psressing 66 doesn't work). How should I do it?

3) I use Dark Angel on their wake up, it gets blocked, then I rush em and do either overhead or 2D, depending on their block state. Is it good strategy? Is it ok, or should I use it some other way? What is (general) counter-strategy for this, cause they will figure it out soon and I want to be ready for it.

4) I'm really good in ground throwing (one of the reasons I'm playing Venom), but air-throws are much harder to do(. N-otoko throws in air a lot, HOW? I understand that he's setting up situations, when he can actually air-throw, but it looks absolutely crazy.

5) What is the best combo starting with ground throw without carcass raid? Sometimes I'm not sure wether I can do it or not, are there "safer" options?

6) Poking game is a problem. For example one guy playing millia often starts with her 236S ("circle"), and I can't beat it. I also bait for moments when I can 2D, it gets FD blocked, I get owned. I can sometimes cancel it, but it's hard for me for some reason.

7) Best 2D follow-up? Dubious curve? What button should I use? let's consider situation when there are no other balls summoned. Sometimes i just miss, what is the moment I must cancel it?

8) Getting out of pressure in the corner seems hard. Millia's "circles" are a problem, yeah. Warp seems to help sometimes, and DAA is very useful, but is it all?

9) If the timing is right 6HS is good ground-to-air, but is's not doing the trick sometimes (and if an opponent is ready for it). 6P has to be good, but is much harder to do "right" way. Any tips?

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Thank you all, this thread is very useful for beginners. Excuse me my english please, it's not my native language.

I usually play with some friends, so our level is far from competitive, but we are training slowly.

It seems, however, that i'm "doing wrong" a couple of things, so I need your help.

1) I suck in air. What normals should I use against Millia and Dizzy, for example? Dizzy jumps, I jump -> I get owned by j.HS. If i'm higher than they, i can use Mad struggle, but when I'm lower? In videos some people use j.D, but I can't find proper timing. Any tips?

2) I can pretty well use TK version of FB mad struggle, but is it useful in air?

Also:

Mad Struggle - 236+D (air) - Hot damn. 14F of start-up, and a fat fucking launch on hit. The go into a pretty long stun on block, meaning you don't lose pressure if you air-dash back in.

I can't air-dash afer this is blocked (well, psressing 66 doesn't work). How should I do it?

3) I use Dark Angel on their wake up, it gets blocked, then I rush em and do either overhead or 2D, depending on their block state. Is it good strategy? Is it ok, or should I use it some other way? What is (general) counter-strategy for this, cause they will figure it out soon and I want to be ready for it.

4) I'm really good in ground throwing (one of the reasons I'm playing Venom), but air-throws are much harder to do(. N-otoko throws in air a lot, HOW? I understand that he's setting up situations, when he can actually air-throw, but it looks absolutely crazy.

5) What is the best combo starting with ground throw without carcass raid? Sometimes I'm not sure wether I can do it or not, are there "safer" options?

6) Poking game is a problem. For example one guy playing millia often starts with her 236S ("circle"), and I can't beat it. I also bait for moments when I can 2D, it gets FD blocked, I get owned. I can sometimes cancel it, but it's hard for me for some reason.

7) Best 2D follow-up? Dubious curve? What button should I use? let's consider situation when there are no other balls summoned. Sometimes i just miss, what is the moment I must cancel it?

8) Getting out of pressure in the corner seems hard. Millia's "circles" are a problem, yeah. Warp seems to help sometimes, and DAA is very useful, but is it all?

9) If the timing is right 6HS is good ground-to-air, but is's not doing the trick sometimes (and if an opponent is ready for it). 6P has to be good, but is much harder to do "right" way. Any tips?

1. Venom's best air-to-air normals are j.P and j.D. However, the chances that you'll beat Dizzy's j.HS is very slim, so you will have to rely on ground anti-airs (still risky) to beat her out. Venom's j.D is a very strong move to use to jump up and hit people at the apex of their jumps, since the hitbox is in Venom's upper-portion. j.P on the other hand isn't the best air-to-air, but it's all we got and it's decently fast, just don't expect it to beat, say, Sol's j.P :P

2. FB Mad Struggle is generally not used in the air (there are a few combos with it, but I'd stay away from those for now). To dash after TK FB Mad Struggle, start hitting 66 right as Venom stops jabbing with his pool stick. The timing is a bit strict, just remember to do it early and not late. (advanced use of air FB Mad Struggle - baiting Baiken P counter or little Eddie S)

3. Nope that's what Dark Angel is for. Even though it grants you mixup opportunities, the primary functions of Dark Angel are to burn your opponents guard and meter and push them into the corner where you can begin your lockdown. If you do the Dark Angel too late or too far, your opponents will be able to jump out of it, so make sure you time it well.

4. Air throwing is something that will come with time. Basically your opponent has to be right above you as you jump up for the throw, but you'll begin to see situations where this will happen in the future. Since they nerfed air-throw range, you can't just do it for free anymore, you have to actually know when they're going to try and escape or air dash over you. The most common scenario to watch out for is when they try to air dash out of the corner, so keep that in mind.

5. If you're not confident with the Carcass Loop off of a throw, you can just go for a Tri-ball setup or a Dubious Curve setup (easier). That is:

Tri-ball format:

throw > 6P > 6HS > P,S,or D.ball > 66 6HS > X.ball > 66 X.ball

Tri-ball combo for continued pressure:

throw > 6P > 6HS > P.ball > 66 6HS > S.ball > 66 HS.ball > 5P

Dubious Curve format:

throw > 6P > 6HS > X.dubious > X.ball

For midscreen continued pressure:

throw > 6P > 6HS > S.dubious > P.ball > 66 5K

For corner okizeme:

throw > 6P 6HS > HS.dubious > K.ball > and mixup however you want

6. Don't attack when the circle is out. Avoid it all costs. If she does the slow one, however, you can just throw her out of the recovery animation. Utilize your far slash to stuff run ins and capitalize on Venom's 6P and 6HS to zone.

7. The followup to 2D depends on hit or block. NEVER summon a Dubious Curve off a 2D on hit because they can tech out of it. On hit you can cancel to FB Double Head Morbid or just summon a ball or two. On block, canceling to Dubious Curve is fine. As for using 2D in a blockstring itself, 2D is at the very end of Venom's gattling tree (meaning you can't gattling into any more of his normals), but it is special cancellable. To break recovery animation and to avoid pushback, most Venom's cancel into Stinger Aim or Carcass Raid to continually pin the opponent down. Learning to FRC the Stinger Aim allows you to rush back in and pressure seamlessly, so I suggest you learn that soon!

8. Block. Venom has literally no reversal options, so just FD and DAA. Read what I wrote abotu the Millia matchup a few posts back.

9. Using 6HS is a huge commitment. It's special cancellable, so on block you can at least summon a ball. However, if you whiff, you're in big trouble. 6P is much better because it has upper-body invulnerability and can lead to some damaging combos or elaborate setups. If anything, I would focus more on practicing your 6P timing, because it's much less of a risk than 6HS. A common thing you see Venom's do is summon lots of balls, hit them, then force your opponent to take the air route. That's when you can start 6Ping. If they start baiting your 6Ps, just dash under them instead and keep summoning balls from the other side of the screen.

Hope this helps!

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ajinkris

Thanks man, your answer is VERY helpful.

I will train my 6P and air-throwing timing, and will try your combos. Also, you literally opened my eyes on 2D followups, I tried it your way - much better :yaaay:.

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Just wondering if there's any tips or tricks you did for the basic DC loop. I can't seem to get multiple hits. Throw > DC(s) > 2s > (here is where I have trouble). When I input for the 2nd DC usually Dark Angel comes out. I have no trouble inputting DC's at a slower pace but can't seem to get fast enough for the multiple hits.

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Just wondering if there's any tips or tricks you did for the basic DC loop. I can't seem to get multiple hits. Throw > DC(s) > 2s > (here is where I have trouble). When I input for the 2nd DC usually Dark Angel comes out. I have no trouble inputting DC's at a slower pace but can't seem to get fast enough for the multiple hits.

Read a page back or so (or maybe this page, I forgot) for tips on how to properly perform DC loop. The timing is all in the 2S after the Dubious Curve.

Are you on pad or stick? Cause pad players oftentimes over-exaggerate motions, causing a surplus of inputs and your character not doing things you want him to. Dubious Curve is performed by doing 421+X (or S in this case). If you're getting Dark Angel (which is 214 41236+S), you're going WAY past where you're supposed to. Relax when you're doing the Dubious Curves, and think of performing 421 like this: back, neutral, quarter circle back. So the inputs would be more like: 4 > 5 > 214S.

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I think its even easier on pad, but yeah, there's no real trick to this, its just a matter of straight up execution. Generally it just means you're trying to rush the motion and you'll exagerrate it as ajin said. Just calm down, and focus on keeping your finger (pad) or hand (stick) on one side of the directional layout, as in, there's no need to ever do a forward motion in the loop.

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It's somewhat hard on pad since you're always sliding your thumb around. But yeah, it all comes down to timing. I think you have to already be inputing 421 motion before 2S connects. That's how I do it anyways. :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

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Thanks guys. I got it now consistently after a few hours of experimenting. I was rushing the motion because I would wait till 2s hit before doing the 421S. Ended up buffering 421 before the 2S connects did the trick like sweetvids mentioned.

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this may be new, and fairly useless, but new...maybe its possible to get a psuedo summon for the sake of organization what you do: while falling, attempt to summon a pool ball extremely close to the ground (note, timing seems REALLY tight, like you have to be doing it right as you're landing, and you may even have to be special cancelling something, I haven't really been able to hit it off a normal jump, just a falling j.s or j.h) what you get: the pool ball doesn't come out, but those that have already been summon move as if you made that ball summon (as in if you did j.214K the k ball wouldn't come out, and vemon doesn't really make any indication of having done the move, but the other balls move into K formation) theres somewhat of a use for this, just being sneaky really, but in this particular set-up: (opponent on ground) x > 5S (3) > 6P > 6H > 214S > 6H > 623K (s ball tele) air dash > j.S > j.H > delay j.214K*** to right before you hit the ground, what this will do is kinda stealth pull the s ball you summoned earlier below and behind the opponent while the k ball doesn't come out. The s ball is easy to miss moving here, and if you pushed them to the corner (the combo goes over 1/3rd the screen) you can then do blockstrings into teleport to get an instant overhead effect (without the k ball giving away your potential teleport locations) as you'll be teleporting on their head basically (and allows for combos like 5H > 623K > j.H > 5H > 623K > j.H > 5H...)

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A few combo that I haven't seen listed before (Edit Well damn. Missed the boat on reading posts. :vbang: Oh well.) :

(Corner) Throw, 421K, 5K, 6P (hit Kball), 421K, S ball, 2S (hit Sball), 421H, Sball

Stolen from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkRKD_3-wPk The Venom loses but the combo is still quite solid. :v: This gives you a decent 20% or so, plus a nice ball set up (2 electric balls, 1 normal ball) for cranking dat guard bar. Feel free to change that last DBC and ball summon to anything you like for ball setups.

I'll probably be editing this post/adding more posts as needed.

Also, late replying, but:

I was watching an N男 match and I noticed this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diK4Zv2MMd4 at 0:26. What the hell is going on there? Did he launch the Stinger using the other 2 balls? I'm not skilled enough to recreate this so can someone verify this for me? The recovery is way to quick to be a regular Stinger.

That's pro as fuck. I'm going to have to try that out.

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A few combo that I haven't seen listed before:

(Corner) Throw, 421K, 6K, 6P (hit Kball), 421K, S ball, 2S (hit Sball), 421H, Sball

Stolen from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkRKD_3-wPk The Venom loses but the combo is still quite solid. :v: This gives you a decent 20% or so, plus a nice ball set up (2 electric balls, 1 normal ball) for cranking dat guard bar. Feel free to change that last DBC and ball summon to anything you like for ball setups.

I'll probably be editing this post/adding more posts as needed.

Also, late replying, but:

That's pro as fuck. I'm going to have to try that out.

Wow. Some people come to the party late, but that's okay!

First off, that dubious curve setup was already talked about 2 pages back (and also previously in almost every thread). It is a very common setup to use if you get a low launch, bounce, or don't think the damage is worth it off of a very prorated 2K starter. There are a ton of other formations you can do with this, since you always get two lightning balls and one regular. P-H-S is the other common one seen.

Also, that's a 5K > 6P in your combo. Venom does not have a 6K.

Secondly, the triple-ball split thing is pretty simple to perform.

K.Ball > S.Ball > 2P > S.Stinger Aim Cancel.

The trick is to hold the [4] from the 214S then drop down to [1] for the 2P just as the K.Ball and S.Ball are about to meet. Then you press 6 > P. The ball that is supposed to be charging at the tip of Venom's pool cue collides with the moving K and S balls, causing all three to fan out in pretty even directions. It covers a lot, but even then it's just more fancy than it is useful, as a regular K.S Ball > 2P would cover almost the same amount of ground.

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Wow. Some people come to the party late, but that's okay!

First off, that dubious curve setup was already talked about 2 pages back (and also previously in almost every thread). It is a very common setup to use if you get a low launch, bounce, or don't think the damage is worth it off of a very prorated 2K starter. There are a ton of other formations you can do with this, since you always get two lightning balls and one regular. P-H-S is the other common one seen.

Also, that's a 5K > 6P in your combo. Venom does not have a 6K.

Secondly, the triple-ball split thing is pretty simple to perform.

K.Ball > S.Ball > 2P > S.Stinger Aim Cancel.

The trick is to hold the [4] from the 214S then drop down to [1] for the 2P just as the K.Ball and S.Ball are about to meet. Then you press 6 > P. The ball that is supposed to be charging at the tip of Venom's pool cue collides with the moving K and S balls, causing all three to fan out in pretty even directions. It covers a lot, but even then it's just more fancy than it is useful, as a regular K.S Ball > 2P would cover almost the same amount of ground.

Whoops, didn't see the combo before. My bad. Also, yeah, the 6 was a typo, that's supposed to be 5K. And thank you for the tip for the Stinger Aim cancel "formation". I was practicing it a little bit earlier and was starting to get it.

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Whoops, didn't see the combo before. My bad. Also, yeah, the 6 was a typo, that's supposed to be 5K. And thank you for the tip for the Stinger Aim cancel "formation". I was practicing it a little bit earlier and was starting to get it.

No problem bro!

Don't sweat the formation thing either. It looks cool, but if you can't get it down it won't affect your gameplay.

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That's pro as fuck. I'm going to have to try that out.

The guy still does that but mixes it up by doing HS Stinger and releasing it late. Sometimes the ball will move in crazy angles. Good for zoning since people don't know what to expect.

:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

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