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[CF] Relius Clover Gameplay Discussion

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The mad puppeteer and his wife is back with new moves in Central Fiction.

Loketests are over and the game is now out in arcades. Loketest thread is >here<

Let's discuss about the gameplay of Relius Clover.

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Notable differences from CPE Relius, this is very likely not all of them so please help me with this.

  • Old 236D (Geara Act aka the yo yo) is gone, in its place is an Ignis command grab, Geara Caus/Cars.  Somewhat slow startup and requires Ignis but still we're a puppet character with a goddamn command grab.  Shoutouts to Damned Fang.
  • Id Zein's hit effect is changed, it "vacuums" the opponent towards Relius on hit rather than wall bounces in the corner.
  • Gad Leis (41236B) has been changed significantly.  Startup is much faster but recovery is slower, combos with it have to be adjusted.  As a result, things like 6C>Gad Leis now work on grounded opponents as well.
  • 2C has decreased hitstun, so combos with it will have to be significantly adjusted.
  • 6B is reverted to pre-CPE status, launches on ground hit again, but is still jump cancellable on block.
  • We have the greatest EA animation in the entire game.

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UPDATED 4/25/2017

Some further changes. U will be universal changes.


U +/- Many many moves have taken damage buffs, but Relius has taken a 10% combo rate nerf to 60%. For full details on damage and proration changes see the bottom of this post. There are a lot of important buffs and nerfs to be noted there that I won't repeat for redundancy's sake so do check it out.


U +/- The combo timer has been reduced for N starters, but extended for S starters. Heat gain is now based on damage dealt in combos as well.


U + SMP no longer affects combo time. SMP instead cuts the base damage of the special/super when it's used again in the combo to roughly a third. SMP is only applied once, but it affects all further uses of the special in the combo. 1st use = 100% base damage second, 2nd onward = 33% base damage. This affects Distortions as well. Distortions still have minimum damage but that's if their base damage is cut it will only do 33% of that cut base damage. 1st Tedo would do 840 min damage, 2nd onward would do 280 minimum damage


U + Normals no longer have SMP, for us this means 4D 2D and 6C have lost SMP.


U + EA and AF have been added


U +/- Bursts cannot be guard-pointed and they pierce invulnerability frames. Led Ley can no longer burst bait. Burst baits must be spacing based or else must be from rapid or jump cancels.


U + Crush trigger has been quickened. Relius can take maximum advantage of it with Ignis out. In the corner Relius is capable of comboing CT>grab as guardcrush state can combo into grab without triggering a chance to throw reject.


+To combat combo rate changes many moves have had their base damage/p2 buffed. full list can be found in the tweet located at the bottom.


- Ignis takes more time to begin regenerating.


+ Ignis starts regenerating near instantly in OD


+ Ignis "stalking mode" persists a shorter amount of time.


- 5B has had its actives changed the full move comes out across three frames now. 8 for first third, 9 for second third, and 10 for the last chunk.


-2B has gotten a similar treatment. Its actives come out across frames 11~13 now. during frame 12 its hurtbox extends past its hitbox.


- 6B launches again and it's been sped up to 10F. However it's lost head invuln, hitstun, and P2. Can't combo into TKj.236C unassisted. Has a lot of recovery, but still jump cancels on block. Has almost no pushback. It's hard to, but it can be combo'd on counter hit. Very very very very situational tool. 


- j.A has more hurtboxes now. They are located in the 9 direction of the sprite. They're not too obtrusive.


+ J.B's float has changed to be closer to Relius. On counter hit j.B also floats the foe closer to Relius than before. Easier to confirm.


+ 2C has less pushback on block


 +/- 2C's hitstun was sped up. It still launches on the same path it did but does so much faster, this was likely to reduce the amount of time it consumed in combos.


+6A has gained 10% bonus proration. It has 97.9 P2 once in a combo.


- 6A is almost certainly an S starter now.


 +/- 6C's float on airhit seems subtly different.


+ 3C floats differently it almost has no horizontal push whatsoever on hit. The aerial float is also decreased.


- 3C's P2 has taken a heavy nerf from 89 to 72. no longer an ideal launcher


 - 4D floats closer horizontally.


+4D has gained 10% bonus proration. it will have 93.5% P2 once in a combo.


+ j.6D j.2D and j.8D's  float the foe further away on counter hit. they can still be followed up pretty easily. The damage of all versions has been brought up to 900


+ Lanto (214A) has been changed it now slides the opponent on ground and air hit similar to OD 214A but not quite as extreme. On counter hit it has hard knockdown and can be combo'd from even midscreen. During certain frames of 3C untech non counterhit 214A will also cause hard knockdown and be able to be followed up.


+ Lanto (214A) also costs less. Summoned (s.214A) has gone from 2000IG to 1000 IG, unsummoned Lanto has gone from 3000 IG to 2000 IG.


+ Unsummoned Lanto (u.214A) has noticeably less recovery than before for Relius.


+ 214B fatals. This can be followed up fullscreen with 665B>6C>41236B


+ Tus (214C) has less pushback on block and hit


- Geara Act (CSE~CPE 236D) has been REMOVED


+ Geara Kaas (BBCF 236D) has been added. More details about that later~!


+ Summoned Geara Nose (s.214D) has allegedly been altered to time for unblockables better.


+ Unsummoned Geara Nose (u.214D) has been sped up dramatically. Plus on block and forces crouch.


+ Gad Leis (41236B) has gotten faster. Although it has taken a P2 nerf and it has more recovery, this is a net buff. Solo grab combos are now possible. 6C>41236B is possible too. This saves a lot of IG in the grand scheme of things. Allowing us to confirm 5C>6C>41236B on crouch, ups our solo combo game dramatically. Allowing us to confirm 5B>6C>41236B ups our punish game dramatically. 41236B is also better as a frametrap, and thus better as a Fatal, due to this speed as well. When catching jump start-up 41236B(2)>6C>41236B is possible even on normal hit. The downside is that late combo we cannot 41236B>3C, making damaging 1000 IG corner combos into 3C>desummon more difficult/extinct.


- Lauger and air lauger (236C & j.236C) lost some base hitstun and will let a foe tech at roughly the height they hit them or a little below)


+/- Haas (~214A) is emergency techable, however Ignis spawns at whatever height Relius is at. This makes Ignis hit the opponent later into the move allowing Relius and Ignis more time to follow-up. As a result things like j.236C~j.214A>airdash j.B and j.236C~j.214A>3C are possible in the corner! if the opponent is airborne when hit by 236C, you can hit them with the last frames of ~214A and set up a fullscreen 214C oki that cannot be escaped.


+ Zain (~214C) can combo midscreen allowing for summon in combos. it leaves Ignis in stalking mode which lets you follow-up into 66C>214A to put opponents behind your starting position.


- Zain (~214C) cannot wallbound. It has taken a damage and P2 nerf as well. ~214C now costs 2000IG.


+ CT allegedly lost 4 frames of recovery


+/- Duo Bios (236236D) Launches upward on the final hit similar to OD Bio's final hit although less extremely.


+ Vinum (2363214C) has taken a damage buff. Vinum has also dropped its low property making it win against things like Haku 6B. The changes to damage and the S starter buff lets us get 3K+ from this. 


+ Tedo (632146D) animation quickened, more time to combo afterwords. Tedo has also taken a damage nerf unfortunately.


+ EA (A+B+C+D while in OD) The reversal Relius never had. a nice addition to Rel's defensive repertoire. Safe on block, not on whiff. It has great range, goes into 2K, or 4K with active flow. With Ignis out you can even pressure an opponent who has successfully blocked it by using 2D. On hit it doesn't give any oki at all, and spaces the opponent far enough away from you to attempt a return to neutral. No minimum damage. Be careful.



^Changes to damage and Proration. Everything is accurate except the P2 values of 6A and 4D. They are 89 and 85 prespectively, but have a 10% bonus proration applied to their first use in a combo.


Known details on Geara Kaas:

Geara Kaas (236D) is not actually a "command grab." It is an unblockable. If the opponent is in hitstun it will combo them, if the opponent is in blockstun it will unblockable them. It doesn't interact with opponents in aerial states, or those in jump start-up. It prorates only once, so hitting the opponent before Ignis is done with them will actually cut your damage gain, unless the few extra frames of combo time are a must. The OD version is faster travels longer, and deals more hits that do less base damage each. Opponents caught by this move have their hitbox collision removed from the game until they are hit or Ignis is done with them, so you can cross through the opponent while they are grabbed. Ignis leaves the opponent in stagger state once this move completes. Ignis has noticeable recovery after this move is done/she is interrupted.

This move has an air version as well it can only be done if Ignis is a certain distance from the ground. above that distance, she will travel horizontally and then grab aerial opponents, not interacting with ground opponents. This version will restand opponents caught by it. below this threshold Ignis will travel diagonally until she reaches the ground and she will then preform the ground version.

The base cost is 2000IG, unsummoned and OD cost 4000IG. It has a strikingly similar appearance to 214C so some choose to mix-up between those two on an opponents wake-up. 236D is quite slow costly so it's not an ideal mix-up tool. After Ignis swings/is hit Relius recovers however so it's not actually incredibly easy to punish. The move has deceptively many actives. Even a bit after Ignis has swung her arm she is still grabbing.

The real use I've found for 236D lies in the restand and true unblockable qualities. It's possible though expensive to restand opponents with 236D, use non-OD Vinum, knock the opponent out of non-OD Vinum which forces them to block the remaining hits of Vinum, and then use 236D again to reset them. Tech is under development but it's as powerful as it is pricey!

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Just a lil' update, 214B fatals.

It could just be u.214B since that's the one I saw fatal, but it's good news nonetheless.

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The amazing, brand new, super shiny, ultra fresh Relius Discord chat is open!

If you already play Relius, are picking up the character, want to know how to fight the character, or even just have a healthy curiosity for the masked puppeteer you should definitely join today!

Here's a link right here!:  https://discord.gg/0nnb4SWS418cy4cz

What is Discord? Basically it's a better version of skype, with live chat functions, both voice and text, and without the mind numbing slowness and errors! (There's still some bugs every now and then with the phone module for discord, but even that's less frequent than phone module for skype from what I've been told.)

A single Discord chat allows for multiple rooms so it can support off-topic, advice, and video rooms and such. It is also much more customizable, so that's a bonus.

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Hey guys, thinking of finally coming back to my true magenta wearing badass.  Looked through all the changes and watched a few videos of CF Relius, and so far he doesn't look like he changed all that much.  Got a few questions too, did Leis get a substantial nerf to recovery in exchange for its upgraded startup?  I noticed people are RC'ing it now to keep pressure up, but I can't see this being necessary unless you can get straight up punished.

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I think it's just - now although I'm uncertain. I've yet to see it be punished.

Also welcome back Necro. I missed ya.

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Pretty much on same page as Myoro.

But RC moves like gad leis and laudger to continue pressure is pretty good when Ignis is unsummoned.  You catch people pressing buttons, or standing up to get out and get that regen in the blockstring/combo.

Not so much when she's summoned like you said a bit wasteful unless the opponent really likes to mash unsummon strings or to close off a match.


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If that's the case, I like it.  Being - still has its uses as a pressure tool, but now it's a more accessible FC frame trap.  Leis was always one of my favorite specials for Relius. 


The system change for bursts kinda leaves me sour though.  

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22 hours ago, Verimeloni said:

6B still doesn't have head invul? D:

they added head invuln to 6B in BBCPEX

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6 minutes ago, WakeUpDP said:

they added head invuln to 6B in BBCPEX

Ah the frame data is still 1.1 so I didn't know, well goodie

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We will have solo combos but at this point it's unknown if 6B will give us them. 6B doesn't gatling to my knowledge, but 6B>delayj.B>delayj.C>2C may work. 6B>TKj.236C will definitely work in the corner I'd think.

However with things like 5C>6C>41236B working on crouch, grab>41236B working, 236C~214C>6C working without Ignis summoned midscreen and 3C>CT allegedly working midscreen. I think it's safe to say we have 1.1-esqe solo combos once more.

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This Rel sounds way more fun than CPEX Rel did to me.  Being able to combo off throw really helps with the risk-reward of it getting broken. 


And just curious since you brought up j.B>delay j.C, is j.B's air untech time good enough for that?  I remember it's level got needed in CPEX, but I don't know if it affected any of its hitstun properties

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It's a fair question actually. TBH it depends on what the grounded hitstun of 6B is. If it's exactly like it's air hit-stun then it'll prolly be tight or impossible.

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Updated cost chart!

Max Ignis bar = 10000 points.

Natural decay = 2 points per frame.

Key: U. = Unsummoned, S. = Summoned, ~ = Lauger/Air Lauger follow-up, OD = Overdrive version OD versions of specials are the only ones that change the cost of the moves, so OD normals and OD distortions have their normal values. Ignis' also has no additional summoning cost for OD version moves, Lauger follow-ups, distortions. or astral so these moves will not be listed with "U." or "S." for simplicity.


0IG class: 214214D, U.5D, U.2D, U.j.D, S.5D, S.j.D

1000IG class: 4D, j.2D, j.6D, j.8D, S.214A, ~214A/~j.214A, ~214B/~j.214B 632146D

1300IG class: 6D

1500IG class: S.214B, S.214C, S.214D, S.j.214B

2000IG class: S.2D, U.214A, S.236D, ~214C/~j.214C , OD ~214A/OD ~j.214A, 236236D

3000IG class: U.214B, U.214C, U.214C, U.214D, U.j.214B, OD 214A, OD 214B, OD 214C, OD 214D, OD j.214B, OD 236D

4000IG class: U.236D, OD ~214B/OD ~j.214B, OD ~214C/OD ~j.214C(edited)

I tested this all with known costs and used the heat bar as a witness mark

Special thanks to Specs from the Rel discord for filling in many of the values of the changed moves.

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Thought I might as well compile a nerf/buff list


Ignis takes longer to regen. It's still possible to do regen combos with 50% meter be it rapid combos in the corner or Vinum combos midscreen, but it'd better be a 2~3 hit confirm into those or you won't get much. Blue bar also matters more now because of this and if you're not aware of it, it can cut the % of Ignis you regen. As a result Ignis is more scarce, and therefore not to be used as freely as before.

Relius' combo rate is down 10%. While this is bad, it's happened to virtually everyone.  As a result the longer the combo goes the more noticeable the decline in damage. As a result his damage has taken a hit of 200~500 across the board.

Geara Act is gone. Unblockables are possible with 214D but much much much less potent.

6B is pretty worthless. It's faster and it launches but it no longer functions as an anti-air. It still prorates like garbage, but now it doesn't have enough hitstun to even combo into TKj.236C. even the CH stun is pretty terrible as you can't combo into 2C. it's pretty much a straight confirm into j.B any time you hazard to use it.

3C and ~214C took pretty heavy proration nerfs so their usefulness in combos is now pretty limited. As a result of this and a couple other changes corner combos cost more to achieve any additional damage.

2C and 6C's float has changed. Gone are the days where you could confirm 2C>6C>41236B from max height with perfect consistency. There are now situations where you /should/ be confirming 2C into sj.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B or 6C>236C~214A.

Bursts now kill Ignis, even during 2D or bios.

Bursts now pierce led ley.

41236B is no longer + and it leaves less time to follow-up

Less combo time limits the usefulness and damage gotten from Duo Bios. It's now more optimal to spam 66A after Bios hits and then combo into 236C 214A or 632146D afterwords depending on the situation.


The following moves have taken proration nerfs: (Credit goes to Tori Relius for researching)

6A P1 85->80

6B P2 89->79

6C P1 100->90

3C P2 89->79

4D P1 90->80

j.8D j.6D and j.2D P1 90->80

~214A P2 89->82

~214C P2 94->72

41236B P2 92->82

214A P2 92->89

2363214C is a little weird as it went from 92 P2 applied for every hit to a P2 of 36 applied once.

632146D P1 85->80

The following moves have had damage reductions:

~214C 1200->1000

632146D min damage 980->840

This list isn't finished, but I'll be adding the buffs part of it later. if I've missed any nerfs please let me know, or if you want to start with the buffs for me that's fine too. I'm thinking about considering things with unchanged damage a nerf like Rel's 5B since it escaped the blanket buff to damage to counterbalance the nerf to combo rate, but I'm not sure if that makes complete sense in this context. Let me know what you think on that too! ^_^


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