SBO 2009 BlazBlue Results

[Elstraim]

Fine, here's some logic. You seem like a hypocrite. You claim that people calling for nerfs are scrubs and should just get better at who they're playing, but it's apparently totally acceptable to buff Tager and Hakumen so they can "deal with the top tiers". How about those Tager and Hakumen players simply become better players and learn their matchups? Or better yet, balance the game by nerfing what needs to be nerfed, therefore giving everyone a better chance at defeating top tiers...which is what we've already said, but you seem to have a dead objection against. The game has been out for a while, we've identified the problems, and there needs to be solutions soon. What's the use in waiting a "few years" to do what needs to be done right now before it gets out of hand? Because I guarantee you, if Nu had won SBO, we'd never hear the freaking end of the shittalking against BB.

[MisoSowee]

Not to mention if you JUST buff Hakumen and Tager, their match-ups vs the other mid tiers and such would lop in their favor, and they're already quite even. (tager not as much as Hakumen, but it's nothing more serious than a 4-6)

[solidshake]

characters with stupid gimmicks do well in vidya, players feel vindicated. wake me when arcsys figures out what they wanna do with this game.

[worldjem7]

Fine, here's some logic.

You seem like a hypocrite. You claim that people calling for nerfs are scrubs and should just get better at who they're playing, but it's apparently totally acceptable to buff Tager and Hakumen so they can "deal with the top tiers". How about those Tager and Hakumen players simply become better players and learn their matchups? Or better yet, balance the game by nerfing what needs to be nerfed, therefore giving everyone a better chance at defeating top tiers...which is what we've already said, but you seem to have a dead objection against.

Alright, I'll give you that. I apologize for not being clearer.

Most characters can combat each other with a fair chance of winning with the worst match-up being 6-4 for the most part except in Tager and Hakumen's cases. These two have even bigger problems than the rest of the cast versus the top tiers because they simply lack the tools or attributes to be able to feasibly compete with the top tiers.

I strongly feel a nerf is not needed on anyone. Yes, Nu/Arakune/Rachel are amazing but, that doesn't mean the characters under them can't beat them by being better players than them. Only when you hit the bottom tiers, such as Tager and Hakumen, do you see a real problem with their match-ups against the top tiers.

With that said, all that's really needed to balance Top vs Bottom tiers is to buff up the lower tiers to give them better tools for fighting against the top tiers.

[MisoSowee]

Alright, I'll give you that. I apologize for not being clearer.

Most characters can combat each other with a fair chance of winning with the worst match-up being 6-4 for the most part except in Tager and Hakumen's cases. These two have even bigger problems than the rest of the cast versus the top tiers because they simply lack the tools or attributes to be able to feasibly compete with the top tiers.

I strongly feel a nerf is not needed on anyone. Yes, Nu/Arakune/Rachel are amazing but, that doesn't mean the characters under them can't beat them by being better players than them. Only when you hit the bottom tiers, such as Tager and Hakumen, do you see a real problem with their match-ups against the top tiers.

With that said, all that's really needed to balance Top vs Bottom tiers is to buff up the lower tiers to give them better tools for fighting against the top tiers.

Like I said earlier, buffing the bottom tier people would make their already fair match-ups slightly more lop-sided. It's like the top-tier are a canker. You don't blow up your thumb bigger to make the canker seem non-existant. You CUT THE DAM CANKER.

[GSMonkeyRobo]

Not to mention if you just keep buffing the bottom tier every time the game's unbalanced it's just going to turn into who can pull off their ridiculous bullshit first and every character is going to play like a palette swap of Carl. edit: or it'll go the opposite direction, for example: "How do we get rid of Carl's clap loop?" "Well, four characters can already get out of it so lets just give everyone an ability to get out of it" Repeat with corner trap, Nu swords, etc. and of course anything added in those cases will likely be found useful in other situations and eventually the whole game becomes just pokes and BnBs with no possibilities for setups or strategy because everyone has too many defensive options.

[bucklemyshoe]

I play I-No, tiers mean nothing.

[worldjem7]

Like I said earlier, buffing the bottom tier people would make their already fair match-ups slightly more lop-sided.

What you say works the exact same in reverse towards the top tiers.

Nerfing the top tiers would make their already fair match-ups slightly more lop-sided against them.

I'd rather buff the low tiers, making them more viable and more fun, and create a couple new 6:4's in their favour than nerfing the high tiers, making them less viable and less fun, and creating more 6:4's against them.

[Antihippy]

the 1/6(2) is too weak when compared to the top 3.

Their other matchups are just fine.

1/2(6) being fair is great if the game was actually of 9.

and the 1 infinte was just a fluke found out and it isn't really all to go ape shit about.

Im not saying remove the characters just that the game does need a big nerf of the top 3 and a bit on the others.

So like i said if you take out top 3 in theory Tager vs Litchi or Hakumen vs Jin are good matchups compared to Tager vs Arakune and Hakumen vs V-13

Tager has pretty bad matchups against carl and jin. He has an even worse matchup against carl than Nu.

And he doesn't even have an even or advantageous match-up against everyone else other than hakumen.

So, yeah.

[HZMN]

Tager has pretty bad matchups against carl and jin. He has an even worse matchup against carl than Nu.

And he doesn't even have an even or advantageous match-up against everyone else other than hakumen.

So, yeah.

True but once you get the hang of Tager and understand the matchups, none of the matches save for Carl, Nu, and Arakune seem unfair in the slightest. Just give Tager a decent Anti Air and figure out a fair nerf for Nu and Arakune, and he'll be ok.

Not alot you can do with Carl, even w/o the throw loop, I see this match as inherently bad anyway simply cause Carl can sandwich Tager to death.

[Spirit Juice]

Why are we talking about tiers in a SBO related thread?

[Elstraim]

It's what cool people do?

[Shining Aquas]

Cause it's all Dustloop knows how to do these days.

[Killey]

Extremely disappointed with the results of the Jin players was hoping at least 1 of them would make it to the top 8. Wasn't expecting Jin to win it but this is worse than what I imagine. Regardless, good showing from Dora for making it as far as he did with Bang of all characters. Also good props for Carl making it to the finals. Surprised that Arakune took it considering how many Nu players.

[Nas]

wow keep the fucking tier list out the fucking thread... if anything the just need minor nerfs... if anything tiers kinda didn't matter becuase of dora recking house with Bang... Bleed and Die chan raping, and Kyaku getting to the finals with carl.. and what do i see in the finals? HEY NO NUS!!! anyways SBO seem really cool to me... sad my noel playas didn't make it that far.. but much props for them to getting that far...Heartnana, Keshigomu, and that other noel (can't remember the name .. there was three right lol...)..also good shit to the litchis.. who would of thought two litchis would make it.. and also good shit on all those nus getting swatted away.. apparently alot the non-nu players knew the matchup well enough to win!!

[Smilax]

wow keep the fucking tier list out the fucking thread... if anything the just need minor nerfs... if anything tiers kinda didn't matter becuase of dora recking house with Bang... Bleed and Die chan raping, and Kyaku getting to the finals with carl.. and what do i see in the finals? HEY NO NUS!!!

anyways SBO seem really cool to me... sad my noel playas didn't make it that far.. but much props for them to getting that far...Heartnana, Keshigomu, and that other noel (can't remember the name .. there was three right lol...)..also good shit to the litchis.. who would of thought two litchis would make it.. and also good shit on all those nus getting swatted away.. apparently alot the non-nu players knew the matchup well enough to win!!

This pretty much, and yea keep the tier shit out of the sbo thread guys

[DoomieJ]

Grats to Fumo, your the man now dog! Better defend this title well. Tier Lists = not everything.

[Allelujah]

I really don't get why so many of you hate on BB so much or why your so upset about the results of sbo. What did you want do happen???

[Rubyiris]

I laugh at how terrible the BB community is. A patch? lolbullshit. It's the same shit SSBB gets regarding Metaknight. Every game has its good, and bad characters. That's just how it is. I'm not sure how the online community is for other fighters, but the competitive fighters I have met in person acknowledge, and accept that certain characters are better than others. BB is no different than any other fighter, or any other GAME for that matter that certain characters/etc are better than others. The difference between BB, and games, such as Melee, Brawl, or MvC2 as examples, are that despite BB having low/mid tier characters, they aren't obsoleted by the higher tier players. In Melee, Brawl, and MvC2, at a high level of play, a lower tier character will NEVER win a tournament. The player may be able to out-play a lesser player, or beat a player who may even be more skillful, but less knowledgeable about certain match ups, or gimmicks, and pull off a surprise win or two. BB, GG, SF, etc doesn't have this problem. Characters have their good, and bad match ups, but it's much more manageable. (I will admit that Tager vs Arakune is super dumb.), but it's nowhere on the level as a top tier team, vs even a mid tier team in MVC2, or even Sheik vs Pikachu in Melee, where it's neigh unwinnable, unless the player using the lower tier character/team/etc is much more skilled. At a high level of play (SBO, the later brackets of events like EVO, etc) it all comes down to individual player skill. In that aspect, most 2d fighters, BB included are BALANCED. Bad, and good match ups at a high level of play either become "SOFT" counters, or disappear outright. In this regard, the BB community seems to be just as dumb as the SSBB community. "OMFG PATCH THIS." "OMFG BAN METAKNIGHT." Using that logic, you may as well remove every character, except one, or give every character the same moveset. If you're looking for the utmost balance, that's the only way you're going to achieve it. Otherwise, you need to man up and accept that characters have their inherent strengths, and weaknesses. BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel. Also; Don't attempt to discredit me using my post count, or experience level. Logic is logic.

[seventwenty1]

Logic is logic.

Logically speaking, if the game is unbalanced and you have an opportunity to balance it...why wouldn't you?

MVC2 isn't going to get balanced at this point, its a decade old and no one cares. Melee isn't going to get balanced, its on gamecube. Brawl isn't going to get balanced....oh wait...no...there's this thing called Brawl+ that's getting more and more popular. If I recall correctly they nerfed and buffed certain characters and match-ups. Tekken isn't going to get patched...oh wait no, there's that whole dark resurrection and bloodline rebellion thing isn't there...Arcana certainly won't get patched...wait...no I was wrong again, they patched both iterations of this game to fix certain broken characters. Well certainly Blazblue won't get patched, there's absolutely no way if all these other games didn't deserve a patch that the developers would never figure out a way to fix it.

[hedgeshot]

I laugh at how terrible the BB community is.

A patch? lolbullshit. It's the same shit SSBB gets regarding Metaknight.

Every game has its good, and bad characters. That's just how it is. I'm not sure how the online community is for other fighters, but the competitive fighters I have met in person acknowledge, and accept that certain characters are better than others.

BB is no different than any other fighter, or any other GAME for that matter that certain characters/etc are better than others. The difference between BB, and games, such as Melee, Brawl, or MvC2 as examples, are that despite BB having low/mid tier characters, they aren't obsoleted by the higher tier players.

In Melee, Brawl, and MvC2, at a high level of play, a lower tier character will NEVER win a tournament. The player may be able to out-play a lesser player, or beat a player who may even be more skillful, but less knowledgeable about certain match ups, or gimmicks, and pull off a surprise win or two.

BB, GG, SF, etc doesn't have this problem. Characters have their good, and bad match ups, but it's much more manageable. (I will admit that Tager vs Arakune is super dumb.), but it's nowhere on the level as a top tier team, vs even a mid tier team in MVC2, or even Sheik vs Pikachu in Melee, where it's neigh unwinnable, unless the player using the lower tier character/team/etc is much more skilled.

At a high level of play (SBO, the later brackets of events like EVO, etc) it all comes down to individual player skill. In that aspect, most 2d fighters, BB included are BALANCED. Bad, and good match ups at a high level of play either become "SOFT" counters, or disappear outright.

In this regard, the BB community seems to be just as dumb as the SSBB community.

"OMFG PATCH THIS."

"OMFG BAN METAKNIGHT."

Using that logic, you may as well remove every character, except one, or give every character the same moveset.

If you're looking for the utmost balance, that's the only way you're going to achieve it. Otherwise, you need to man up and accept that characters have their inherent strengths, and weaknesses.

BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel.

Also; Don't attempt to discredit me using my post count, or experience level. Logic is logic.

If GGXX is any indication, we can expect to see revisions to BB. No one really knows how those revisions will be carried out. I tend to agree that balance revisions should not be rushed to give tactics, counter tactics, counter-counter tactics and so on time to develop. Your idea that games should remain as is now and forever and that we "man up" is just as flawed as players that hop aboard the buff/nerf train during the first few months a game is out (or as soon as SBO is over for that matter).

BB has now been out for a while now and I'm sure arc has plenty of changes to both gameplay and balance in store for us.

More on topic: Did any new/interesting tactics/loops/combos emerge from SBO?

[solidshake]

BB, GG, SF, etc doesn't have this problem.

hi, have you heard of a game called third strike?

also can we stop with these dumbshit parallels/contrasts to smash and MvC2? you're talking about two games that are dissimilar as night and day, so of course the balance makeup is going to be different. just because half of the BB players on DL come from smash doesn't make it a qualified point of reference.

the game needs balance, plain and simple. name me a first-iteration fighter that doesn't. screaming for a patch is silly, yes, because an arcade fighter will probably get a new rollout altogether, which will trickle down to a console release. GG, which you laid out as an example of a balanced fighter, has had five of these.

but this doesn't discount the notion that BB has some bad balancing issues, and the SBO results have done little to persuade otherwise.

[Rubyiris]

Please re-read this line from my post: "BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel." That is all.

[Allelujah]

every1 should just be forced to mirror match only then the QQ can stop hah...

[SimpleKiss]

Please re-read this line from my post:

"BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel."

That is all.

But there *are* things that should be patched. Or rather, fixed. And how many revisions did Guilty Gear have? Each Revision made some balancing tweaks.

I come from computer gaming, not arcade gaming since I was a kid. Ever since the internet, patching has become a way of life with every competitive computer game. I find it kind of unusual that fighting games in this day and age aren't being revisioned with balance patches (and would certainly benefit from them.)

Over the past 10 years, there have been lots of balance changes to Starcraft which is the most prominant and popular (and balanced) e-sport/competitive game out there. I feel fighting games deserve that kind of attention too.