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LM_Akira

[Accent Core] Order-Sol Matchup Thread

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Cool, I have quite a limited experience of playing against Potemkin thus far but I've heard elsewhere that IBing the 6HS is a better idea so it sounds like a good, general strat to use against 6HS on wakeup. Another thing to note, blocked Hammerfall and blocked Judge Gauntlet give you a free Lv2/3 RI combo...you don't even have to bother with the gatling you can go straight into the RI for free damage. Also, I got Heat Knuckle'd out of Lv1 BRP the other night by CPU Po. Lv1 is too risky to use on the ground against him I think, even just to nick a hit from max range.

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I am having alot of trouble with Robo-Ky. Here's what happened: Training mode vs Cpu I(Sol) fought against Robo-Ky and having absolutely no Robo-Ky experience didn't know what to do. SO Robo-Ky gains 100% tension. And here's what happened. First he did his OD with the timer. Then he combos into the million punch OD mashes like a bitch. And I mean like a bitch. Beat counter goes over 40 THEN the timer goes off and BAM! 64 hit combo. Mother fucker took out 70% of my life. I was like:vbang: :vbang: :vbang: HE MUST BE DESTROYED! Tips?

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Well, for OS, you pretty much have to defend properly then when the oppertunity rises, you counter attack or flee from him, then keep him in a long string till his timer runs out. Once that happens you get out of range and start charging yourself to full. With Sol, vs Robo-Ky should be the same as any other matchup really, VV all you can't understand, use GF FRC to move forward, don't jump in too often and most importantly, don't try to zone.

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Few Tips Against Robo Ky If the RK player love to spray air missile lvl3 when you are far away, to pressure yourself to approaching with robodash, just jump straight then land, the homing missiles will keep as target your jump position, so you just land and see them going away, and keep charging your level, if you see him doing robodash , just charge burst his face, he will be amazed to see that robodash get fucked up. If he s not doing robodash just stop charging, and watch his moves, if he going for a slide; fafnir him for a free CH leading in dash S HS JC jS DjHS D BRP. The Rk player i often fight, love a lot the timer OD thing you describes, so he will try to approach you with the tactic i mention above. I need strats against a solid baiken tatamizer, I have just found how to deal with her counter & baku,(2p into gunblaze :toot: ahah !) but Back dash/Air/Okizeme tatami is my worst nightmare. PS: Excuse me for my poor english, I'm French.

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Poor English? I've heard far worse. Back on topic: Okay Ill take what you both said and Ill have try it out. Robo-Ky is one of my hardest fights. And tips on Baiken would be necessary for me too. I tend to throw her alot. Tips against Johnny?

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You can GB under Robo Ky's robodash, no need to make it hard on yourself with chargebursting. Actually, you can GB under a lot of things, except crouching attacks and some lowprofile hitters. Anyways, I've mentioned that part of Baiken in a previous post aswell. She'll try to get an easy hit on you with the tatami, don't get hit by the tatamis, that means using FD brake and FD jumps properly. Then once you locked her down in a corner, you attack her and don't stop till she's K.O.

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I've noticed that Potemkin players are opting out of 6HS oki now and going instead for really meaty Slide Head at the unblockable distance. Remember that you can reverse this with Fafnir for free if you are in range. As far as 6HS oki, I would always SV it unless I see the opponent has meter to FRC the move; there's no reason to IB and attempt a backdash or jump away when you can reverse for free. You can also do Gun Blaze under 6HS on wakeup, but if the 6HS is done early enough, his fists will retract before the flame becomes active, so be careful when using it.

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Yay, I beat my first Potemkin player yesterday. Using all that 6HS Slide Head nonsense. It felt so good cuz I hate grapplers so much. Anyway, I was defeated by a Sol player. I have never seen Sol played like that before. This guy, his style revolved around 2D GF and 2S Frame traps for a Wild Throw setup. So.. -How do I deal with a Sol's 2D(I notice he'll do it whenever I try to run in, FDB?)? f.S without meter? Or 2HS? -How to deal with Sol when he has you cornered? -Beating 2S frame traps?

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I'm not really sure how you'd use 5S(f) to deal with Sol's sweep, my best advice would be to try and bait the sweep and then punish it in recovery. That's what I try to do against Venom's sweep too. If he sticks it out when you run in, try low double jumping right over him or something like that. What problems are you have when Sol corners you? GF and 6HS spam? That really used to give me problems in Slash because of HOS's low jump and because 6HS has a really high hitbox on it. One option is to actually hj.IAD out of the corner at the right time. Another is riskier but going for 2S (CH), 6HS just to get some breathing space (GF is in CH state for a long time into recovery). Fafnir is good here becuase of it's lower body inv and Lv2/3 BRP might get you out of the tight spot. If he comes in with a Bandit Bringer in the corner, Lv1 GB on CH will give you a nice half bar combo. Lv1 TR is a futher option. Just really depends on what he's doing to you in the corner. What kind of 2S frame traps is he using? I have a write-up of the matchup against Venom but I'm still working on it. I've also been playing Jam and Johnny quite a bit more these days so I should have something to add about them soon.

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I was playing a friend yesterday and he started off picking johnny, I had quite a lot of trouble since I never really used hos against johnny. I was wondering what would be best against him?

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Sol's 2D goes under HOS's 5S(f) so that's not really a viable option to stop 2D spam. My advice would be to watch him closely to see how he spaces his 2D and then backdash to make him whiff. As far as 2S frametraps, just IB 2S and most of those problems will go away. It would help if you outlined how he is using 2S, though.

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I was playing a friend yesterday and he started off picking johnny, I had quite a lot of trouble since I never really used hos against johnny. I was wondering what would be best against him?

Generally any character with range better than HOS is going to give you trouble whe you first start playing against them. Realistically HOS only has a handful of moves he can use at mid-range (5S(f), 5HS, Fafnir, Lv2 SF, Lv2/3 BRP spring to mind) so you'll want to look at attacking thru gaps in Johnny's offence in order to close him down and get into him.

Be wary of the low Lv2 K Mist Finer as that's a free combo for Johnny on hit. TK Ensenga (RC) airdash into combo is another to watch for as it can work from a suprisingly long way out. He has no DP style move apart from his super but his 6P is good for AA. You need to mixup your approach to him (ground and air) because it can be too easy for him to swat you away like a fly if you telegraph your intentions. If your Johnny opponent is good a landing 1-hit Ensengas, be mindful of throws, tick throws, wavedash into throw etc

I will try to post something a little more helpful shortly.

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He'll do things like 2/5K>5S>2S>GF FRC repeat or start with GF FRC then the previous string. And I didn't know HOS can get thrown out of BRP during startup. And damn I suck against Johnny. If I time it right Gunblaze can pass under 6HS or I might go for 2D but damn learning the timing takes alot of time. I can't jump in on him because he'll stick out 6HS if I'm not point blank in his face or TK Ensenga if I'm away from him.

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Thrown out of BRP at startup? I didn't know that could happen. HOS is airborne after 8th (Lv1) 7th (Lv2) and 6th (Lv3) frames of BRP and has feet inv before but I guess technically he is still throw-able. Then again, you shouldn't be using BRP if you're that close to your opponent that they can throw you. If you're using it by itslef, Lv1 BRP needs to be spaced so that even if it's blocked (you're at -1 and can be thrown if you land right next to them) you're still out of throw range.

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Ill have some vids up hopefully of me using HOS against stone (kenmasterx) soon. I only decided to 2nd HOS like a week ago but I use to play him on and off. Also ill get more on aba,milla,may, and others soon (maybe whole cast after SER2). BBL

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Not a complete strategy guide but some basic discussion and some things I've learnt from experience/testing:

Vs. Venom

The Venom fight is always going to be frustrating for Order-Sol. If you're playing a defensive style Venom you may have to be very patient before you can get in to score damage as Venom can quite easily sit on the other side of the screen, set balls and hit them all day long. If you're good at predicting the ball's trajectories you can do funky things like nullify them with 6P, sweep under them, SB and so on but this isn't going to help you mount an offense. Don't ever bother using 6P against electric balls however.

Venom can throw out 5S(f) and 2S to stop you simply running him down. Don't try to blindly rush in, you need to make sensible choices in order to get close. Stinger Aim and Carcass Ride, coupled with ball setups and other normals used to hit the balls combine to make it especially hard to close the gap at times. You can, however, land a j.HS CH from IAD pretty easily if Venom is mindlessly setting balls on the other side of the screen and not paying attention.

Venom's 6P and to a lesser extent 6HS serve as good anti air for him now if you predictively try to jump into him. You generally need to be creative in order to land a jump-in from open play.

NEVER GUN BLAZE TO GET IN! (This holds true normally anyway) A missed GB can result in easy knockdown for Venom. A good Venom can actually kill you from 1 knockdown (see later).

Venom's 2D is pretty awesome now but if your opponent is over-using it try to bait it with djs. It beats things like Lv1 RI and Lv1 GB, however, if you baited the 2D, Lv1 RI can in fact be used to punish it, as well as Fafnir amongst other things.

If Venom is in range for 2K, he can do 2K, 2D, K ball setup and hit the ball as a meaty oki option with j.K. He can then either jump in and go high (...) or low (2K) or jump over you and go high (backwards airdash j.HS ...) or low (2K) and reset the whole knockdown option from there (2K, 5S©, 5HS K dubious curve or 2K, 2D, K dubious curve or backwards airdash j.HS, 5S©, 5HS, DC or whatever, something similar). Something to bare in mind as Venom can almost kill you from 1 knockdown if you don't watch closely for the mixup. Reversal Lv1 SV and Lv1 TR are you friends against this oki setup, otherwise you have to block the ball then watch for the near instant follow-up.

If Venom is using strings which end in 5HS, dubious curve on block, you can use reversal Lv1 TR or Lv1 SV against it. You can be pinned down by this block string quite easily (DC is level 5) when there is no need to be. Using FD is also another option, as well as backdash and Slashback (GB is possible but risky). 5HS, DC on hit is probably near impossible to stagger out of in reality so you'll usually end up taking the hit and sliding knockdown (and getting a damn electric ball setup coming your way). Venom can also throw out Dark Angel after hitting you with the stagger from 5HS and the whole thing will pretty much combo. The mind game changes slightly if the Venom you're playing against likes to FRC the DC at the end of a block string because he can then punish a whiffed reversal SV if you don't AC FRC it for example.

Venom's j.HS has a good hitbox to it, good for jumping in and also for meeting moves in the air, i.e. it can be used to punish predictable airdashes / jumping attacks. If Venom is using it too much as a jump in Lv1 GB works well as anti air against it. If you can react quickly enough to it you can beat it with j.P (same goes for Venom's j.S).

In the corner watch for Venom's Dust attack as he'll get a free knockdown and continued oki pressure from it. He can even get a ball setup from it (electric DC).

Lv1 BHB AC on the other side of the screen from Venom can actually be punished by a HS Stinger Aim.

Whiffing any laggy special against Venom (e.g. Lv1 SV AC without FRC) can be punished by a dash in sweep or gatling into sweep back into oki pressure.

Mad struggle and FB Mad Struggle are overheads! Don't ever both DAAing against them as they have multiple hits!

You can GB under Dark Angel if you time it well but a better option is probably to hj over it or hj.IAD over it. Blocking it on the ground gives Venom a free mixup (he can hide behind it and go low or overhead). Air blocking it with FD is another option but its best to avoid blocking it completely if possible.

Since he has no DP-style move on wakeup, occasionally you can throw in a fuzzy guard mixup fairly safely.

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Vs. Baiken

This match-up is a headache for pretty much everyone. Baiken forces you to play patiently and opt for a drastic change in the way you condition your opponent. Your main priority in this match is to bait/avoid Baiken's counters. Some tips on doing that:

1: Keep pressure strings short. One to two hits at the most. Anything more and you're just giving Baiken a free window to Sakura or Ouren. Short and sweet.

2: Pressure with mostly Jump Cancellable moves. Easy enough. 5P, 5K, 5S©, 5S(f), and 5HS are all JCable. Opt for the quicker pokes (5P, 5K) and just watch and react. Using the faster pokes also has another use (explained further down).

3: Keep special use low. In pressure: If it's not BRP, don't use it. Frame advantage means jack in this match. GB is also a viable option. While it's hard to reaction GB in the middle of pressure, you can throw it out there every now and then to beat/whiff every counter except the P one (the anti-air chain). This same principle goes with ending pressure strings in CC; 2D/5HS CC will, more often than not, leave you eating a Sakura or Ouren.

Now that you can deal (relatively) with Baiken's counters, you have to deal with Baiken zoning and pressure. Baiken zoning relies on Tatami as a big ass wall of free combo death, 6P for anti-air, 5S(f) and 2S to simply outrange you, 2D for anti- run in and air (wtf), and j.S for its good hitbox and potential knockdown for Baiken oki (j.S, j.D). If Baiken likes to zone then you're in good shape. Take the time to either back off and Charge to Lvl2/3 (forces Baiken to close the gap) or attempt to get in by FD braking and baiting pokes/Tatami, then moving in via jumping or continuing to run forward. Smart movement will easily let you whiff a poke and start your offense, as many Baikens will not poke much, instead relying on their counters to protect them and get some damage/knockdown.

Baiken pressure is also relatively simple to guard. It's mostly based around Tatami to come in, IAD in, and guard bar building. Personally, I feel that 6P and GB are AWESOME against Baiken pressure. 6P nulls Tatami mats (unless they're right on top of you), whiffs IAD/jump in j.S for a CH, whiffs j.HS unless Baiken is higher up (at which point GB scores a free CH for major damage), and 6P will clash with Baiken's chain pull (preventing the suck-in effect). GB stops all of Baiken's air assault really; making Baiken stay on the ground helps immensely in controlling this match.

If you're actually forced to guard (Knockdown + meaty Tatami oki) then concentrate on escaping. Guard low and watch for 5D (or Youzansen if Baiken has 50% tension to RC). Chain Pull is a free escape or 2D if Baiken does the follow-up; just learn to IB it. Pressuring Tatami also leads to a potential jump out unless Baiken FRCs (which some will do to continue cranking guard bar). With Tatami FRC and chain pull, Baiken can easily get your guard bar to flashing for crazy damage if she breaks your guard. The most important thing is to not panic; a flashing guard bar means that Baiken had to spend alot of tension (via Tatami FRCs) to keep you locked down effectively. Just watch for throw attempts, and don't get suckered into eating a throw bait via 6K or ascending j.HS; that's free HUGE damage for Baiken.

The "secret" to pressuring Baiken and scoring damage is utilizing throws and throw baits. Don't worry too much about high/low mix-up; you'll only get countered, regardless of how much you attempt to condition a Baiken into not doing them (think pre-AC Anjis and their autoguard spam :v: ). Tick throws are excellent in this fight. 5P/5K, 2P/2K, while landing j.HS, 6P are all great ticks which allow you to bait counters at the same time due to their speed and recovery. Once Baiken catches on and starts trying to poke you out of throws or throw break, you have the option of using 6K for the CH into massive damage, or JC into j.HS for CH into massive damage. Also, if you successfully bait counters then punish them effectively; Sakura and Mawarikomi (high autoguard run) can easily be 2D'd and CC'd into combo, chain counter lets you score a free combo, and Ouren is a free escape (but resets the situation in your favor, due to frame disadvantage or potential whiff).

Vs. Slayer

Slayer is retarded in AC. Link system allows him to convert pretty much any hit into solid damage with 25% meter, his CHs are great and give him free combos, and all his combos end in knockdown and oki.

To be honest, I didn't have much experience in this match-up until a friend pointed out a relatively simple fact, which I promptly tested at SER v.2 with great results: outside of 2HS range, Slayer only has 3 ways to come in and start his mix-up, 6HS, Mappa, and IAD/jump in j.HS. That being said, if you can find what beats those three ways in, along with baiting 2HS effectively, then you can fight a Slayer. HOS' main answer(s) to 6HS, Mappa, and j.HS come in two flavors: GB and 2D, with GB being the better option. Both will either hit Slayer out of his offense, or whiff his offense and recover in time to be safe, so you can throw it out occasionally.

The problem starts when Slayer begins relying on 2HS to prevent you from keeping him out. 2HS CHs 2D (ugly) and hits you out of GB (non CH). The solution to 2HS spamming is an easy j.P whiff falling j.HS. At that point it becomes a little mindgame on whether you're going to jump in (so he has to anti-air with 2S and 6P, both of which score a CH on falling j.HS but clash/whiff if you do another j.P instead. If Slayer anti-airs with 5P then you trade if you do another j.P, or lose if you do a j.HS), or whether you're going to continue keeping him out (for more 2HS spam). The funny part is, if Slayer tries to anti-air with 5P, 2S or 6P, they all lose to 2D. Even if Slayer uses his FB BBU to anti-air (bad decision), 2D/GB win. So we're right back where we started in terms of keeping Slayer guessing.

Offensively...I'm not too sure. I was focused more on baiting and countering Slayer than starting my own offense, but when I did get a chance I just used basic mix-up and tick throws. Personally, I prefer to back off and Charge in this fight, forcing Slayer to come in and begin the baiting game again. That way, I always have Charge to combo with when I do score a hit. Meaty oki (particularly 6K) on Slayer is particularly effective (no DP) until he gets 50% tension. Speaking of 50% tension: fear Dead on Time (punch super). Once Slayer has 50% and you're trying to come in, you HAVE to bait it. However, once you successfully bait it you get a free punish with Slayer pretty much in the corner (a running Fafnir into air combo is great for this).

That's all the input I can provide at the moment. If anyone has any insight on these match-ups, feel free to share.

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I went a few matches against a Slayer today myself. All I got is don't rushdown Slayer at all. Like WUT posted, I too start off by charging at let Slayer come after me rather than me after him. If you corner Slayer, don't jump in. He'll either A)anti-air you or B)Block and throw then mixup with his dash or C)Block then go into some mixup that ends up going low. Here's how it went for me after losses by way of trying be have a better offense than Slayer: Beginning of the match: 1.Manual Charge>Charge Burst CH or Storm Viper vs Mach Punch 2.(what WUT said) Gunblaze vs Jump ins 3.BRP vs 2D/2HS That's all I got. Anyone else?

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According to the Venom matchup thread in the venom forums. Rock It crushes Venom's normals at close range. Like POINT BLANK range. I doubt this means anything against Slayer. Damn, my I-no won't be ready for like 4 months!

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Yep, I have to say I've been stuffed out of Lv1 RI by countless Venom pokes up close. If a Venom player tries to poke you out of RI AFTER it's started then they'll probably get stuffed (but it would be stupid for them to try that anyway) or if you baited a poke then used RI they'll get stuffed but otherwise it's the other way around. The idea is obviously not to use RI up so close in a neutral situation, used at the end of a block string or to sometimes close the gap is better. I personally see this matchup as 6-4 to Venom, with the right tools a Venom player can keep you away frustratingly well.

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