[Other: Q&A] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Questions and Answers

[Wokker]

- Worst Rachel player ever -

Hey guys!

I decided yesterday that I wanna play Rachel, but have no clue whatsoever in what to do during a match. I know a couple of combos, anti-air combos etc. but combos can only get you so far.

I understand the basics of zoning with Rachel, keep away until you get to a situation where its advantageous for you to move in on your opponent, but I have no clue in -how- to get to that "situation".

Ive played a few matches, but still got no clue.

Got any beginners tips with Rachel? Like how to zone effectively and how to keep your opponent scared from rushing in recklessly?

[DonkeyKnifer]

- Worst Rachel player ever -

Hey guys!

I decided yesterday that I wanna play Rachel, but have no clue whatsoever in what to do during a match. I know a couple of combos, anti-air combos etc. but combos can only get you so far.

I understand the basics of zoning with Rachel, keep away until you get to a situation where its advantageous for you to move in on your opponent, but I have no clue in -how- to get to that "situation".

Ive played a few matches, but still got no clue.

Got any beginners tips with Rachel? Like how to zone effectively and how to keep your opponent scared from rushing in recklessly?

Being a beginner myself I found that watching a ton of matches with good players really helped out. Basically the idea seems to throw stuff at your opponent and play a good neutral game until you can summon something and then move in (may differ depending on matchup). Throwing lobelias and using pumpkin to keep your opponent scared works out so far for me. If they block George you get a free mixup in many cases, a really simple way to get in (which may not work against better players or some characters) is to just summon pumpkin and then dash + wind, you move fast and have protection from the pumpkin. You can also kinda use pumpkin like a regular projectile to cover you when you are in recovery or just need something to hit them fast.

You can also use wind to give lobelias another trajectory which may be harder to deal with, this becomes even more powerful if you have a summon out.

Summoning George seems slower and riskier to me but I may be mistaken. At some times if you summon George your opponent may think they are allowed to dash in even if you have time to recover first, then you can either punish them trying to kill George or just block their offense and they will be forced to block / get hit by George.

I think it's important also to recognize when you are allowed to move in. At times you may be at frame disadvantage but your opponent might be scared or whatever so you are allowed to dash in or summon something.

Again, I am a beginner myself and my Rachel is pretty bad, so my advice may not be the best and I would love to hear a better player tell me I'm wrong. See it more like my thoughts based on what I've noticed in the few matches I've played rather than facts. Figured I'd post it anyway as it might help somewhat.

PS. Noticed you were in Sweden, if you are in the Stockholm area we can play offline some time, check out bitterharmony.se/forum for regional matchmaking. Otherwise I might meet you online some time

[Wokker]

Thanks for the help!

Noticed you were in Sweden, if you are in the Stockholm area we can play offline some time, check out bitterharmony.se/forum for regional matchmaking. Otherwise I might meet you online some time

Actually, I live in Stockholm, and sometimes goto Bittergarmony, but ive never played offline with the people that hangs out at Dragonslair. I usually play with some guys on Loading.se

But when my Rachel gets better I think ill take a trip to Dragonslair. Btw, im "Vilda_Wokker" on Bitterharmony

[[SpA]Relentless]

What donkeyknifer says is basically right. General gameplan is:

Create space, summon pumpkin. Then either wind in with pumpkin and start mixups, or summon frog and start spamming lobelias (occasionally with wind to speed them up & push george closer). If the opponent blocks the frog, dash in & mixup. If he gets hit for some reason, combo into a knockdown with pumpkin or frog.

In my opinion it's important to know how to pick up random hits with Rachel so that they end in knockdown with pumpkin or frog. That comes with experience.

Additionally if you didn't read it already, check out kro's old CT Rachel guide. While most of the combos and some of her tactics are outdated, a lot of it still applies (especially the part about zoning).

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?7488-Rachel-Alucard-Guide-Not-Getting-Enough-Hate

[Wokker]

Phew. That guide took a while to read. Thanks for the help guys! I now understand the basics of Rachels gameplan and that the pumpkin is the shit

[DonkeyKnifer]

Thanks for the help!

Actually, I live in Stockholm, and sometimes goto Bittergarmony, but ive never played offline with the people that hangs out at Dragonslair. I usually play with some guys on Loading.se

But when my Rachel gets better I think ill take a trip to Dragonslair. Btw, im "Vilda_Wokker" on Bitterharmony

Sure, you'd be welcome. Best way to improve is to play against others so come visit. We don't really have any actually good players and the scene for BBCS is very small (most play SSF4, MvC3, T6 and 3S) so I think now would be the perfect time for you to visit. If you can do combos consistently you'll be the top player :D

[gli]

Once you get knockdown with oki you are golden. All it takes is one and the guessing games can begin.

[Wokker]

Oh, btw. Before I forget. I dont know if im doing something wrong with Rachels oki. After i hit with 3C in a combo and throw out the frog right after the third hit, the opponent can grab me or kick me in the face.

Do I throw out the frog to late, or too soon?

My standard knock-down BnB:

5B, 6CD, j.C, land, 5B, 6B, 3CD, oki

@Donkeyknifer

Oh, ok. Then ill swing by the BH forums and check up on the schedule for offline matches

[gli]

Just do 5B 3C into okizeme.

[Coopa]

Hey, Rachel players. Since the transition from CS1 to CS2 changed a lot of things, I find myself having a difficult time understanding Rachel's new properties.

At the moment, I'm trying to compile some sort of understanding of what Rachel can potentially do, and I'd really appreciate it if someone from here could help answer my questions.

Here's some notes that I've noticed (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Barrier guarding Rachel past her fork range (6b???) seems to be ideal to reduce her options. At this range, if Rachel does a projectile with no normal before it, she can get hit by a random sledge, although guessing is not ideal on the Tager player's part.

At past fork range, Rachel can use her wind to put her back into her ideal mid-range to close combat (is this correct?). If she chooses to jump, she can use wind + jump a for an overhead, or wind low, but the low comes at the risk factor if the opponent is mash friendly. To make this jump A from Rachel reactable, Tager players want to barrier guard her to the range I mentioned earlier because you can at least look at the wind meter and figure out their gameplan--jump a point blank is not reactable.

Any normal transition to projectile has a gap if you instant block the normal prior to it (is this correct???), therefore if you IB the normal, say 6b, you can input a sledge and hit her.

Jump 2c is plus frame if done at a low height (around tager's chest and most other character's heads)... is this correct?

Her sweep is negative even if I don't IB??? I think I can stick a 5a and hit you if I block the sweep, but I don't understand why it changes so often. Can you make it hit more or something and how?

Anyway, those are my notes/questions.

My main questions are:

1) What are rachel blockstrings or normals that you normally use to transition into a projectile. What do they look like?

2) I think 5b is considered a projectile from Rachel, uh, is there any other normal Rachel has that's considered a projectile?

3) Can her overhead (6a?) be instant blocked and punished? Can you cancel it into anything else to make it semi-safe?

4) What is your ideal gameplan when you play against Tager?

Lastly, if you live in Norcal or somewhere close, could you please add me on Xbox live so I can get more experience and help the Tager forums out?

My tag is: IPWCoopa

Thank you.

[Marisa]

@Coopa

1) Not really sure, still figuring out this Rachel thing, I've mostly been working with Primer breaking shenanigans (that doesn't do so well vs Tager) and finally figuring out the j2C stuff.

2) 5B and 2B are both projectiles now, every other normal should be physical

3) Her wing overhead is 4B, cat punch anti-air is 6A, 4B cancels into 5B, 6B, 5C, or 2C and 6A cancels into 5B, 6B, 2C, or 6C

4) My Tager experience has mostly been either keep him in 6B range and be very careful with oki setups, but I'm awful at the game so take that with a grain of salt.

[gli]

Barrier guarding Rachel past her fork range (6b???) seems to be ideal to reduce her options. At this range, if Rachel does a projectile with no normal before it, she can get hit by a random sledge, although guessing is not ideal on the Tager player's part.

Yeah pretty much. Keep in mind her 6B fork can be jump-cancelled. Normally Rachel players will want to stay out of sledge range.

At past fork range, Rachel can use her wind to put her back into her ideal mid-range to close combat (is this correct?). If she chooses to jump, she can use wind + jump a for an overhead, or wind low, but the low comes at the risk factor if the opponent is mash friendly. To make this jump A from Rachel reactable, Tager players want to barrier guard her to the range I mentioned earlier because you can at least look at the wind meter and figure out their gameplan--jump a point blank is not reactable.

Correct.

Any normal transition to projectile has a gap if you instant block the normal prior to it (is this correct???), therefore if you IB the normal, say 6b, you can input a sledge and hit her.

Correct.

Jump 2c is plus frame if done at a low height (around tager's chest and most other character's heads)... is this correct?

I don't think it's plus frames. However, if you normal cancel the j.2C when it hits at a low height it makes it safe.

Her sweep is negative even if I don't IB??? I think I can stick a 5a and hit you if I block the sweep, but I don't understand why it changes so often. Can you make it hit more or something and how?

Frame data says 3C is neutral on block. Her normal 3C can go up to 3 hits but can be special cancelled on any hit. Holding down C it can go to 7 hits but she cannot special cancel out of any of these hits. However, blocking 3C will cause a slight push effect.

Anyway, those are my notes/questions.

My main questions are:

1) What are rachel blockstrings or normals that you normally use to transition into a projectile. What do they look like?

2) I think 5b is considered a projectile from Rachel, uh, is there any other normal Rachel has that's considered a projectile?

3) Can her overhead (6a?) be instant blocked and punished? Can you cancel it into anything else to make it semi-safe?

4) What is your ideal gameplan when you play against Tager?

1) Usually I use something like 5B > 2B > 5BB (looks the same as 5B > 6B) > 236A.

2) As mentioned earlier 5B and 2B now have projectile properties. 2B hits low but the projectile property makes it sledge susceptible.

3) Her overhead is 4B (she leans forward a bit and hits you with a wing). She can gatling into 5B or 2B (which can be further gatling'd) if she connects with it.

4) Mainly she wants to take her time and only approach you when it's safe. She will want to stay out of sledge range and only really wants to approach when she has pumpkin with some wind at her disposal. If Tager screws up with an ill-timed sledge she can safely approach with winded pumpkin and start corner carry into her mix-up. Rachel will try to discourage sledge with 6B. On CH 6B pushes Tager back to full-screen and gives her time to regenerate wind and setup pumpkin/frog. Rachel wants to avoid being magnetized because it limits a lot of her options. The main cause for concern is that she cannot really summon anything without taking some risk while magnetized.

[Coopa]

I really appreciate the help, Glirandy and Marisa. I think I'll review a few more things with Tofurr if he is available on xbox live. I'll post here if I have any further questions. Feel free to ask me anything if you need information on Tager, but as it is now, I'm susceptible to a lot of Rachel pressure.

[gli]

Common Rachel pressure/mix-up strings:

1) 5B > 2B > 5BB > jc > 3D > j.A > ...

2) 5B > 2B > 5B > 2D > jc > j.A > j.B > j.B > j.A (fuzzy guard)

3) 5B > 2B > 4B (overhead)

4) 4B > 2B (high to low)

5) 5B > 2B > 5B > 2D > jc > land > 2B (low mix-up)

Going to also add these to the tutorial thread.

[gli]

Oops. I lied. Not all normals cancelled into projectiles (more commonly 236A Lobelia) can be IB Sledged. Some normals into projectiles can be IB > Sledge punished if IB'd far away enough.

Sledge Safe normals to cancel into 236A: 6A, 3C, 5C

Sledge Unsafe normals cancelled into 236A (all of these can be sledged if IB'd): 5A, 2A, 5B, 2B, 6B

These are only unsafe when IB'd from a far away distance. The 236A Lobelia has to be far away enough to where Tager isn't in blockstun immediately following the normal and so he can fit a sledge in-between the cancel.

Of course, Rachel should not try to throw-out Lobelia's within that range to begin with. It would be much safer to throw out a jump-cancellable normal and retreat to safety.

[Beening]

I am not sure if this counts but there is an awsome fight in which Matsu beats a good Ragna player with some excellent combos

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV1pdCqbopc

Matsu' is the laast round but it does show a few nice combos and some really nice defensive/offensive play.

[Jason D.]

Alright, this is my Rachel cross-under trick, for those who don't want to watch my Revelations matches.

First off, it only works mid-screen. You cannot go under them in the corner.

To set it up, hit them in the air with BBL. Any aerial level 2 j.2C combo, into 236B - j.C - j.C - Sword Iris - BBL, will work perfectly. While they're up there getting shocked by the super, drop George. Now back off a little, wait for them to fall, run full speed towards them, and time it so you will 2A the moment they tech.

As you're all probably aware, after getting hit by a BBL, the opponent can ONLY Emergency Tech. Which is the neutral tech you do the moment you hit the ground. They have no other tech options. If they choose to not Emergency Tech, and let themselves hit the ground, then George will hit them. It'll blue beat, and just 5CC - pumpkin, or something. You'll have plenty of wind back for oki.

Now, what makes the cross-under so awesome for Rachel is George. When they do tech, George is already going off, and in fact it's George and not Rachel that mixes them up. Meaning that she is perfectly safe to just sit there and block and see if George connected or not. Also meaning that it's completely DP safe, as well as safe from pretty much any other reversal that's not Tager's GETB. (In which case you can probably just jump or backdash, just in case. Though I haven't tested this.)

Oh yeah, and keep in mind that since George activated during their tech, he'll only do about six hits, instead of his usual eight.

Best yet, even when people get wise to this trick, you can still use it to mix them up in many ways. Humorously, I still haven't had anyone block it correctly, but here are some of my ideas for when they're ready. For one, you can simply not cross under. Just do your running 2A a little early, and you'll still be on the same side. That alone makes for a very solid 50/50 mixup. Also, you can cross-under, and then throw out 4B for an overhead. Unlike most people's cross-under overheads, George will be holding them still, so 4B's start-up is protected from mashing.

And in the worst case scenario, where they do block everything correctly, you're still getting George oki. Another mixup chance! Seriously, this move is S-tier.

[LordSpectreX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX75ysMoZUY&t=4m59s

Video for reference. That is pretty amazing.

On a different note, how comes everyone says do a j.a after a 2DJump? Why not j.B? It's just as good range wise, it goes into more damage and it's only one frame slower.

[[SpA]Relentless]

Because 2d j.b whiffs on most crouching characters if you do it instantly. You'd have to delay it to a point where it would become reactable.

2d j.a done instantly hits most crouching characters.

[LordSpectreX]

Oh I see. I've been testing on Ragna so I didn't really see much of a difference. Thanks.

Sorry, I have one big question. It may have been answered before but I've watched the videos and stuff but I really don't get how the lv2j.2C works during combos.

Take like this for example. 5B>5CDC>3C>8D>5B>JC>j.C>JC>2D>lv2j.2C. I cannot get it to work. Can someone direct me through the exact input process? I do 3D after the second jump, then either I wait too long and they tech, or I do it and it's just a level one. I don't even understand how it can be a level two. The dummy has barely any momentum going downwards and Rachel has very little because I just jumped.

[gli]

The way I would do the combo is:

5B>5CDC>3C>8D>5B>JC(direction 9)>j.C>2D>JC(direction 9)>lv2j.2C

*In this case I'm doing 2D before the second JC since I seem to execute this more if I do it this way.

The first JC you might want to make a superjump depending on the character. If you think Rachel is too low when you attempt j.2C then SJC the first jump cancel.

[LordSpectreX]

Ah, just tried it. I actually did it. At least I know I can now. Thanks very much for the input.

Now I need to get the hang of doing BBL after the Iris. XD. At least Rachel is fun though.

[Zeromus_X]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but does anyone have any tips on getting 5CC after j2C? Sometimes I can get it just by 5C'ing after landing, other times it whiffs; is it height dependent? I see some Rachels in videos whiff a 2A after landing to shorten the recovery of the j2C; but I can't seem to get it consistently with this method. Mostly wondering so I can get that knockdown after say, 6A CH or George hitting in the corner.

[gli]

I'm going to assume by j.2C you mean landing a lv.2 j.2C.

Both methods work you just have to learn the timing.

The 2A whiff method I personally use. The only drawback from using this method is that sometimes 2A will connect if the opponent bounces low to the ground so you end up with a dropped combo.

Main thing to keep in mind is that 5C startup is pretty slow so you have to make sure it's out by the time they are about to hit the ground.

Sooner rather than later is what I think to myself when I try to time it.

[Son of a Gun]

I posted this in another topic but someone pointed out I'd better post it here.

I'd like some advice for good ways to use Rachels Astral. I usually end up only using it in corners, but are there good ways to use it elsewhere, let's say mid-stage?