[CF] Es Gameplay Discussion Thread aka Pudding Lovers Anonymous

[Tokkan]

Move list:

Type:Shooter "Breunor" - 236A/B (Air OK)
->Additional Projectile - 236A/B during Breunor
Type:Slasher "Griflet" - 623C (Air OK)
Type:Assaulter "Erec" - 214A
Type:Slasher "Gawain" - 214B (Chargeable)
Type:Slasher "Mordred" - 214C
->Additional Attack - 214C during Mordred
Type:Enchanter "Bors" - 214D (Gives "Crest Arts Strengthening Status" after use, which benefits Griflet, Gawain and Mordred)
Type:Assaulter "Tristan" - j.2B (input up to 3 times)

Supers:
Type:Shooter "Palamedes" - 632146A/B (Air OK)
Type:Slasher "Galahad" - 632146C
Type:Enchanter "Percival" - 632146D (Gives "Crest Arts Strengthening Status" after use, which benefits Griflet, Gawain and Mordred)

Yes, they included a command normal in her command list (j.2B) and yes they did in fact give it a name as if it were a special. Probably only in her command list because of the "up to 3 hits" thing, cool that they named it though.

Es's XBlaze colour (11) is herself (lol) and her Xrd colour (12) is Dizzy.

[FA-ST]

Does Bors not affect Tristan? In the trailer it looked like you could combo off the 3rd hit, which does not happen in the matches from the stream

EDIT: nevermind, in the trailer she uses it against  Ragna while he's standing on the ground, maybe that's the reason.

[heavymetalmixer]

For now, crests ssem to be a combo-only tool, I hope we see more uses of it : /

[Toxin45]

Saw gameplay she holds the emblem of the people she's beat in her victory pose.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks for the movelist Tokkan! lol, wow. Her XBlaze color being herself is hilarious. That was a nice touch by ASW. 

Some things I noticed from the Dengeki event footage:
- Saw a command normal Overhead where she uses the broadsword as a support and does an upward heel kick
- j.C, j.2B are both looking like potential air combo ender material. Bors is also looking like a good ground combo ender as well.  
- Interesting uses of Gawain RC for mixups. Curious to see how this develops
- Projectiles definitely good at controling space in neutral. Feels like either the A or B ground version can be good for reseting pressure as well
- Because doing Mordred's followup is optional, it seems there are two variations of its Bors enhancement. If you do the followup, it does the followup crest that launches like we've seen up until now but if you don't do the followup, the followup crest will be an even bigger version of the first Mordred slash's crest. Hard to tell what the usefulness of the non followup enhanced version is currently but it might be useful in the corner.   

7 minutes ago, FA-ST said:

Does Bors not affect Tristan? In the trailer it looked like you could continue the combo after the 3rd hit, which does not happen in the matches from the stream

Hard to say. They might've not been low enough to the ground to pick it up. Es was pretty low to the ground in the trailer when she did it.

EDIT:

Also, Current Es colors for those interested

 

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/doctornk/status/757110759058964481 

 

[Ragnarok_F4]

At least she has a command grab (like Noel's) that looks very similar to her jumping overhead move. And from the gameplay video I believe she has another overhead on the ground (one that she hits with her legs while using the sword to hold herself). Her mixup looks ok, but she looks fast and with good spacing control (large normals and projectiles), maybe with some frametraps here and there. Her drive gameplay looks unimpressive, but I believe her neutral can be fierce in good hands.

[Monarch]

Es Overview Evernote: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s512/sh/c7e6cffc-b90e-4c49-a9e5-b8f1eace7ce3/8a11f8d5e1a52311

 

6 hours ago, heavymetalmixer said:

For now, crests ssem to be a combo-only tool, I hope we see more uses of it : /

I would disagree, though it was briefly shown in a match, j.D has great potential for okizeme: but the other crests do look like combo tools only. 

[WhiteWolfMomiji]

also, looks like her standing overhead has low invul. Happened twice in the stream.

[xLittleLucifer]

This is my Evernote on Es, Give it a read :
- Evernote :https://www.evernote.com/shard/s670/sh/37547e36-ea3b-40ab-84e1-c597f4a6f3d9/58b61702df78c5cb82abddb0c598c4aa

[9:02 PM]

So they didn't really mention anything that hadn't been discussed previously on the recent stream in the general discussion thread. They did confirm that her command grab is a DDT/does not connect on crouchers, but they also clarified it's use in her tool set; it's supposed to be used to punish your opponent once they begin stand blocking in response to Gawain since (now that they mention it) the two moves do look very similar on start-up. There are a lot of variables to determine whether that will be a legit mix-up in high level play, but the fact that they had that specifically in mind makes me think they wouldn't do something crazy and make the grab CH recovery or something... Right?

[Myoro]

Well if it's really possible to manipulate the timing of Crest Art activations it's concievable that you could use the Crest to cover the recovery of the grab/overhead should they be blocked or whiff. What's more the crests could be activated on start-up should the opponent try to mash out, and if Erec is really like Noel's Muzzle Flitter, then it very well might be able to combo from the Crest into an okay punish.

The biggest problems I can see with that is that DPs are liable to blow that mix-up into extinction.

Furthermore has it been confirmed that one can manipulate the times that Crest Arts will go off? Is it known how it is done?

[9:02 PM]

24 minutes ago, Myoro said:

Furthermore has it been confirmed that one can manipulate the times that Crest Arts will go off? Is it known how it is done?

They're predetermined, though the delays (obviously) vary based on the move. They didn't say anything about being able to manipulate it.

[Myoro]

Thanks!

[9:02 PM]

25 minutes ago, Tokkan said:

Minami, who was there and played with Es, said that you can hold down D to increase the delay, but further holding can also turn the crest into a feint that disappears without activating.

They didn't mention being able to delay it when they talked about her drive. Just an oversight I guess?

[Tokkan]

I deleted that post immediately because I misread what he said and realised it immediately.

[Myoro]

So wait, can they or can they not be delayed or feinted? Can we set the record straight?

[Tokkan]

I'd prefer not to discuss this further, it's embarrassing. The fact I was caught was even more embarrassing, since that means it has a chance of misinforming. I made that post because I read Minami's tweet before and misremembered it but then reread it and was set straight. Jumped the gun a bit.

[Myoro]

Oh right on, well until more info surfaces I'll drop it. No harm no foul.

In other news do we have anything in the way of shorthand for Bors enhanced moves?

If not how about we do e.214C e.623C and e.214B for normal Mordred Griflet and Gwain respectively and E.214C E.623C and E.214B for their powered up versions or something like that?

[9:02 PM]

The feint thing was my bad, I had to go listen to it again. The exchange is

Q: フェイントで出してその紋章のみは当てるとか

A: そうです、そういうことも可能です。〜この感じ出しておけば相手の上から攻めを抑制出来たいとかそういう方も出来ます。

And while the arcsys rep is talking about it, he makes one of the j. D crests disappear without activating, but it's just because she can't have more than one out at once and he did another drive normal.  The casual guy with him is trying to express the idea that you can feign an approach with like forward jump j. D, but really just be trying to get the crest on screen instead of actually trying to attack immediately.

[xLittleLucifer]

I do believe that you can delay the Crests activation idk if by holding [D] or by pressing [D] again cause we saw her Delay 5D in other for Gawain to hit and then it activated (Normaly 5D crest has a fast activation but in there it was delayed) , We Saw 2D into Bernour and then it activated (I'm still not 100% sure tho I could be mistaken which I think I am lol) but now If I'm mistaken then it simply just means that the Drive Normals Crest have individual timings 5D being the fastest to activate & J.D being the most delayed.

Now being able to feint them I don't think so, mostly a crest will only disappear if another is put on the screen before it activates cause you can only have #1 on the screen at a time (Idk in OD), So yeah She can't feint the Crest but she can forcibly stop it by setting up another one before it activates. I mainly see this being useful in combos to stop the crest from messing it up.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

hmmmmm, since we still got about 2 months until Es' Release, why don't we start trying to flesh out her gameplan since we've got enough info to have a general feel for the character. I'll compile what we come up with into guides that'll be a work in progress.

So what's everyone thinking about round start options? IABD and Backdash seem like good options. It'll give us a comfortable amount of space to get a Bors buff or start using Breunor projectiles to hinder approaches and get the opponent to move the way we want them to. Also, in the case of IABD, throwing out a falling j.B at the end can be a good way to tag people out of chasing after you.

Slim pickings so far for grounded round start pokes. Need to see more of Es' 5B and 2B before I can evaluate their usefulness. 3C seems nice on hit since it can combo into Mordred at max spacing but the real problem is on block. I'm thinking against characters with more limited reach, 3C > Bors might not be too bad though on block. The invuln onsome of Es' D normals is another interesting option we might be able to make use of but needs testing. Being able to invuln through round start pokes with 5D could be useful in some matchups.   

In terms of air approaches at round start, I'm thinking jump back > air dash j.C. The jump back > air dash  instead of an IAD should allow us to get somewhat good spacing on the j.C. I'm a bit worried about having enough block/hit stun to land and continue the combo/pressure from just j.C but I think it should be fine with Es' arcing air dash.

[Monarch]

33 minutes ago, RurouniLoneWolf said:

 ySo what's everyone thinking about round start options? IABD and Backdash seem like good options. It'll give us a comfortable amount of space to get a Bors buff or start using Breunor projectiles to hinder approaches and get the opponent to move the way we want them to. Also, in the case of IABD, throwing out a falling j.B at the end can be a good way to tag people out of chasing after you.

I agree with round start backdash falling j.B, maybe j.C too given its range. Wouldn't suggest using Bors though, no point creating space if we're going to just let them close in in the time it'll take for them to get to us while using it. Same goes for using it in the middle of a blockstring too, asking to get punched in the face.

 

I feel TK. Breunor is going to be really good as a neutral tool: at the right height the first shot should be able to hit grounded opponents and the second shot should hit airborne opponents.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Hmmm, you think so? At the moment, I think Bors and Breunor have a nice relationship that compliments using Bors in neutral. The threat of Breunor and meeting approaches with Es' normals will force opponents to move carefully in neutral when there's space between us and should give us enough time to get a Bors buff, every now and then. As for Bors in blockstrings, I feel like Bors' total duration isn't so bad that doing max range 3C > Bors puts you in any real danger against opponents with less reach but it could be my imagination. Though now that I'm thinking about it more in depth, I wonder just how negative max spaced 3C is on block. It might be fine to just not cancel into anything on a blocked Round Start 3C.

tk Breunor could be pretty useful. Because of its size, I think the air to air version should be enough to hinder both ground approaches and approaches from the air at roughly air dash height. Super jumps from the right distance should be able to get around both though. And of course, we'll have to be careful of character specific options. The biggest concern is how air Breunor's recovery works. If it works like Jin's ice projectile, we're good. But it's hard to imagine they didn't give it a very noteworthy amount of landing recovery considering its size and utility...then again, it wouldn't be the first time ASW did something that didn't really make much sense balance wise >.>

[Myoro]

TBH I see more merit in doing round start air backdash>j.D unless you're certain they're giving chase immediately. Setting that big ol crest makes the pokes and AAs you do soon after scarier as you can use it to confirm into bigger damage or else recover and start pressure. Even if they take evasive action to avoid your interception they'll be forced to go very far into the air or be caught by the crest anyway. if they don't immediately approach and their presence at neutral isn't too frightening using Bors shortly after you place the crest couldn't be a bad idea, and from there you can plot your entrance, begin bullying with Es fun projectiles, or even plant another crest as the j.D crest detonates.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Oh wow, that's a pretty good idea Myoro! That's something I definitely want to experiment with when the game drops. Hmmm, I'm thinking an extra round start option for jump back j.D might be good too since it'll put the j.D crest in an even better strategic position than IABD j.D but it might be a bit more risky to do.

Another thing I've been thinking of experimenting with these last few days is round start super jump back. I kind of dismissed it as having too little value when I first thought about round start options but it does give you some nice options when you're falling back down like a downward angled Breunor to hinder approaches, air dash j.B/j.C to intercept both air and ground approaches, etc.