[Xrd] Dizzy Gameplay Discussion - "Onegai, yamete!"

[Linuka]

Now that The Best Gear is finally out, I figured we should get the bubble rolling on her!

Some new things I've noticed since +R:

RIP j.2S

Mirror Super (632146P) reflects projectiles and is invul, like you'd expect. But it just clashes with DPs as far as I can tell.

2D no longer jump cancelable (but can still go nto Ice/Fire Spike).

I'm preferring using her Ice Spike over Fire Spike (2s, c.s, f.s, 5h, 2d, 236s) then fish and re approach per usual.

Her Ice/Fire Scythe YRC is sweet. You can instantly YRC and have plenty of time to right/left mixup them.

I've also been running into a bug where after p fish hits once, I grab them, and the fish stays on the screen until I do another one, where it then bites, and goes away. I'm able to repro it about 50% of the time in training mode.

[w0011011]

Hey! Best gear finally. I've been waiting for a while 'cause I wanted to try out this character. Been really into Xrd and haven't been able to find anyone I really liked, hoping to try Dizzy out. 

However, I started with Xrd and I've never played Dizzy in any of the previous games, and obviously there aren't a lot of Xrd resources seeing as she just came out today and I'm not really sure how to pick her up. Since this is the only thread I figured I could get the ball rolling with some questions and stuff?  

First question (being the main thing I've noticed on netplay) is does she have any meterless reversal? I know she's got the mirror super and obviously universal mechanics but if I don't have any momentum I find it kind of hard to find opportunities to get out of the corner. I'm not that good either, so that might just be me being bad. 

The fire spike doesn't feel very strong, I'm not sure what to use it for. Most of the time I finish with ice spike because it gets you the knockdown for oki or re approach, so I don't know what to use the fire spike for either. 

Which projectiles are best in what situation? She's got so many I just don't know what to do with them. So far the 214HS and 214S feel pretty good on knockdown but I haven't experimented too much. 

Share your thoughts! If you know any other resources I'd be happy to read those as well. Good luck! 

[deadite]

Fire spike is for combos and loops. Its not an ender the same way ice spike is. Its also useful tool when YRCd. Do her combos in the dojo to get a feel of the fire spike.

 

In corner bnb to icespike RRC>Hfish>fire spike>laser hit>fire spike>icespike.

[w0011011]

Gotcha. Thanks for the advice! I'll have to mess around with it more, I haven't gotten too much time to lab since it's only day one, so I'll be relying on you experienced Dizzy players to help. orz 

I can tell the fish are really good for both oki and combo extension, but what are the main uses of the other projectiles? So far I'm not really managing to work anything out. Are they combo tools, shield pressure, etc? 

[Ryd']

I'll just leave this here...

6P c.S 5HS 2D 236S RC 214S IAD jHS 236P (laser hits + pops bubble) 6HS 421HS or (brief pause) 421S (meaty oki, can summon fish as they block/get hit)

So far confirmed on Sol & Elphelt (209 damage).  Beginning can be adjusted as spacing demands.

Edit: 421HS xx 214P at the end will combo into the first bite of the fish if the opponent doesn't block the spike, but they get to tech afterward if you're not quick to convert.

[Zouf]

oops wrong topic...

[deadite]

From starting position:

Dash K-cS-HS-2D-236S-RRC-421H-dash-6P-6H-236H-236S

Around 210 against El and Sin

[w0011011]

I don't know if this is common knowledge or if it's something new but I find it pretty neat. If you hold roasting chestnuts (421H) and then yellow roman it, the projectiles stay there until either their duration is up or you input another H attack. Has potential for oki and block pressure, maybe combos? Tell me what you think! 

[pikapika212]

3 hours ago, w0011011 said:

I don't know if this is common knowledge or if it's something new but I find it pretty neat. If you hold roasting chestnuts (421H) and then yellow roman it, the projectiles stay there until either their duration is up or you input another H attack. Has potential for oki and block pressure, maybe combos? Tell me what you think! 

dunno if this is common knowledge, but if you yrc while one of them forms, it will launch imediately, meaning you can possible have 1 or 2 for back up

[AlterGenesis]

Came back to XRD for Dizzy, feel pretty lost without j.2S.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Dumping the 4Gamer movelist article here

http://www.4gamer.net/guide/ggxrd/031723053/

[redsilversnake]

214K and 214H seem to be the most reliable versions for okizeme; 214P only worked for me at very close range.

421H should probably only be used with YRC available against certain characters, since they have options for hitting Dizzy during its startup and early active frames.

236S/H YRC might actually be pretty good…

If you have meter, use it; it's so much easier now to get both high damage and a knockdown with these RC combos.

j.K could be good for cross-ups.

Midscreen throw setup: Throw>Dash 2P>6P>6H>214K. Delaying the 214K is necessary on most, if not all, characters, but the timing will vary depending on wakeup time; fortunately, though, the cancel window on 6H seems rather big.

[w0011011]

8 hours ago, pikapika212 said:

dunno if this is common knowledge, but if you yrc while one of them forms, it will launch imediately, meaning you can possible have 1 or 2 for back up

That sounds pretty useful. The one that fires can cover your approach and then you can use the other two for block strings or if you get a hit confirm. So far I've been able to fire them after 2D and extend into an air combo but haven't found too many uses for it yet.

[drzero7]

Yo, loving her fire scythe YRC mixup, like

 

2K, c.S, 236K, YRC, IAD, air back dash, j.KPH, land, combo or more pressure if they actually blocked all that. 

or

2K, c.S, 236K, YRC, TK j236P (i.e. TK bubble) air dash, etc.

I prefer close.S 236K YRC because if you do other moves like far.S or 5H, the blockstun is too long that the YRC timing would be longer wait (i.e. it'll come out as RC since you cancel during blockstun) You can also do 2K, c.S, 6P, 236K YRC but this puts the foe a bit farther and I want the foe close for the fire scythe. 

IMO, fire scythe is for YRC mix-up, her ice scythe is more for non YRC meterless mixups. 

 

IMO, her fire pillar is for YRC pressure not combos, like you can do a pressure string 5K, c.S, f.S, 5H, 236H YRC, more pressure. 

Not sure what use her new 6H is. Her 5H and jH definitely feels nerfed with less range. I also dont like her new 2H (miss her old 2H axe)  I know it "launches" but you can only combo if you hit a croucher and do a crouch, 2S,2H or something. Not sure what I can use 2H other then pressure string, but I rather use 4S during pressure string. 

this is my 2 cents with a scrub Dizzy. Of course 214H YRC fish or knockdown 214K is good. Or just 214P YRC pressure.

 

[redsilversnake]

4 hours ago, drzero7 said:

IMO, fire scythe is for YRC mix-up, her ice scythe is more for non YRC meterless mixups. 

Ice scythe isn't good for mixups at all; it only hits once and doesn't seem to have a great amount of blockstun.

 

4 hours ago, drzero7 said:

IMO, her fire pillar is for YRC pressure not combos, like you can do a pressure string 5K, c.S, f.S, 5H, 236H YRC, more pressure. 

YRC expands its possible utility, but its main purpose is definitely in combos. It's a very good source of damage in her RC ones.

 

4 hours ago, drzero7 said:

Not sure what use her new 6H is. Her 5H and jH definitely feels nerfed with less range. I also dont like her new 2H (miss her old 2H axe)  I know it "launches" but you can only combo if you hit a croucher and do a crouch, 2S,2H or something. Not sure what I can use 2H other then pressure string, but I rather use 4S during pressure string. 

6H is, as far as I can tell right now, for situational knockdowns (as in the throw combo I stole from combo mode and Makkii posted earlier), with the charged version being for combos.

2H is indeed a bit more limited now, but you can get some good stuff from it if you know you're gonna hit an opponent when they're crouching (such as when you land a fully charged or counter-hit BS), thanks to it apparently being the only reliable way to combo into 236H without RC.

[Nehle]

I expected Dizzy to be kinda this way. Movewise she feels like most of the other cast i.e. she's pretty much reload with enhancements.

Thoughts after playing a bit yesterday

I really dislike bubbles being 236P/K instead of 214P/K. Just needs getting used to I guess?

Also bubbles are a lot worse than in any XX revision.

So far doing 2D > 421H, fish seems to be a decent way to get oki off.

2S is still good AA, have't tried 6P yet

Really like ending blockstrings with fire pillar. it's anough of a frame trap to catch a lot of people mashing. Haven't tried against all characters though.

Miss dizzy's old 2H for that sweet sweet abare 

I also don't like doing 4S to get the old f.S. It makes it hardder to stuff airdashes on reaction

 

Post more after TM'ing after work today, but I'm looking forward to testing more

[NonoV2]

2D > 214HS fish oki leads to empty jump 2K or late airdash j.K > filler combo back into 2D > 214HS.

It's really good against DPs too.

Mixup it with 2D > 214D fish oki for tick throw setups.

If you don't have enough time for oki, use 236K YRC, it's less strong, but still gives the same high/low mixup, but no reversal protection.

The bubble hitbox looks smaller than +R.

[WayTooFoxy]

Is there a universal 50-meter bnb for midscreen yet? I've seen a couple that, for whatever reason, I just can't do.

I can't do : gatling xx 2D xx 236S RRC 421H IADF j.H xx 236K j.H land 236H

or

gatling xx 2D xx 236S RRC 421H dash forward 6P > 6H xx 236H.

I've been trying for 6 hours today and for 4 yesterday. Literally 10 hours trying to figure out these two combos. Do I have other options for similar damage or should I just keep playing Zato?

[Nehle]

More things

Fuzzies off of something like 236P airdash j.H, land, j.P are still in the game. Haven't found a good ender off of it except for 6p 6h though

6p is great as AA. We're pretty spoiled right now with both 6P and 2S

Forward dash still has feet invul and can dash over pot slidehead. Haven't tested against every other low yet
Taunt is still unblockable!

43 minutes ago, WayTooFoxy said:

I've been trying for 6 hours today and for 4 yesterday. Literally 10 hours trying to figure out these two combos. Do I have other options for similar damage or should I just keep playing Zato?

What are you having problems with? The 421H must be pretty much input the same instance as you do the RRC, which should be at the same time as the hitstop of the ice spike hits. Make the IAD as deep as possible before landing the j.H also

[WayTooFoxy]

Yeah I just can't do it. I'll come back to it in the future but for now I'm giving up on it. Looking for alternatives now but not coming up with anything as good.

[Nehle]

I would say the alternative is just going for a midscreen oki off of the 2D

[WayTooFoxy]

I can do all the Zato tricks and all the Venom tricks but that combo is too hard for me. I don't know what the deal is man.

[Effenhoog]

I've been getting a glitch with the P fish quite frequently, both intentionally and otherwise.  Basically it seems to trigger when you grab the opponent right before P fish is about to bite the opponent for the third? time.  All it does is make the fish freeze in place instead of disappear, and it seems to last until you summon another fish.  The previous fish will then animate the same way as the new one but seems to have no hitboxes or anything.  I can't replicate it with any consistency at all but I've seen it happen dozens of times from both trying to force it to happen and just playing normally.  Probably doesn't have any real gameplay affect but I found it strange how often and easily I have been seeing it, I'm surprised it wasn't caught before release.

I really don't understand the P and K fish summons in this game, they have so many huge gaps and feel really awkward to use effectively.  The timing on H fish feels pretty bad too but it at least works off 2D knockdowns so I understand it more than the others.

[Moy_X7]

Someone make dank combo and setup videos already. I'm not gonna learn these things on my own :^)

[SQNR]

34 minutes ago, Moy_X7 said:

Someone make dank combo and setup videos already. I'm not gonna learn these things on my own :^)

This please. As it is, I have to do put in work myself and we can't have that.

On den 19 juli 2016 at 6:59 AM, Ryd' said:

I'll just leave this here...

6P c.S 5HS 2D 236S RC 214S IAD jHS 236P (laser hits + pops bubble) 6HS 421HS or (brief pause) 421S (meaty oki, can summon fish as they block/get hit)

So far confirmed on Sol & Elphelt (209 damage).  Beginning can be adjusted as spacing demands.

Edit: 421HS xx 214P at the end will combo into the first bite of the fish if the opponent doesn't block the spike, but they get to tech afterward if you're not quick to convert.

I have a bit of trouble landing this combo on Elphelt. Only managed to do it on Elphelt once out of many tries. No real problems doing it on Sol though. Would be nice with some sort of universal midscreen RC combo like WayTookFoxy mentioned.