[CS1] Rachel Info and Discussion

[comoesa]

You guys think rachel should have everything?

[Konton]

No. But she should probably have something.

[DC]

Look on the bright side guys... Rachel might be the new joke character!

[Discotheque]

Look on the bright side guys... Rachel might be the new joke character!

I know you're being sarcastic and all, but really, just because she might be low/mid tier at a LOKETEST does not guarantee that she'll be unplayable when it comes out on arcades.

And you never know, she might be one of those characters that are still viable in team tourneys because all of her match-ups are like in her favor or against her, that might make the match-up dynamic more fun than in CT where one of her only true bad match-up was against Nu.

Or we can discover some broken shit again.

EDIT: I want the new DD to do a lot more damage. Kinda like use BBL if you want oki and use tempest if you want to do max-damage. Tempest looks unusable atm.

[Ryock]

Well, you are right Discotheque, there is a good chance a lot of the nerfs don't stay on arcade release. I'm just worried that it'll turn Blazblue into a bit of a boring game, since honestly Rachel's the only reason I have any interest in this game to begin with. If she wasn't in it, I doubt I'd play it, simply because of her style of technical attacks based on wind usage greatly intrigued me to see how she'd play when she was first announced. Her entire character is incredibly interesting to me, so all these changes feel extremely forced and odd. A lot of them don't make much sense to me especially since of the top three, she was the least complained about. Frankly, it just ticks me off. I hope you're right, I really do. I would hope she's as interesting to play in CS as she is in CT.

[Outtawack311]

They really need to denerf the j. 2c a bit. Its killing me that they have a move that is now completely pointless. That is my main problem at the moment. Ryock is right though, every fix on her seems forced..frog over powered...lets put a timer on it. Pumpkin too strong...err...howbout we weaken the most useful aspect of it, the hitstun... The only things they should have done were weaken her damage and make wind more valuable. If they wind was more valuable to have and took a bit longer to recover it would automatically weaken the rest of her move set. Instead they did all of that and now she is practically unplayable. (although I do think something very strong will come with air sword iris).. p.s. tempest looks awful and weak....why make her throw a cow unless you want her to be a joke char like dan...oh wait..that explains everything...

[Discotheque]

It would be nice if a blocked j2c can cancel only to something like 3C so as long as they guess right, all they have to do is block the 3C and Rachel is forced to reposition/poke/try to continue pressure with pumpkin.

The problem in CT was that she could CONTINUE mix-ups for the duration that she has wind because of 5B being jump cancellable.

What arksys is doing is kinda making it special cancellable (I think its cancellable to lobelia and stuff I believe), but it just ends up getting Rachel eat a full combo anyways because all of her specials are slow as fuck.

EDIT:

p.s. tempest looks awful and weak....why make her throw a cow unless you want her to be a joke char like dan...oh wait..that explains everything...

Come on, look at Bang's nail DD in CT. That DD was almost unusable but Bang wasn't necessary a joke character just because of some one move.

If tempest added like 1k damage to your combo, doing like 3.4k-4k damage, then its completely viable to use it. As I said before, it would be nice to give a player an option to sacrifice damage for forced knockdown+oki with BBL or go for max-damage/kill with tempest by adding much more damage.

[Discotheque]

Sorry for the double post, but I have an idea that can make Rachel's mix-up kinda fair and interesting Have 6C jump cancellable to jB and jC Of course the 6C needs property changes so a opponent cannot push Rachel out of jB range with FB but it creates couple of scenarios. I use 6C, opponent can 1)block high, anticipate jB overhead 2)block high, anticipate jC overhead 3)block low, anticipate jC overhead for scenario 1, since it is one of the safest option for Rachel, if the opponent blocks jb correctly, then both players are about neutral. for scenario 2, since its a riskier option for Rachel, it gives her more +frames on block and gives her an opportunity to continue her mix-up game (4B/2B/3C/maybe a wind 6C). Maybe jC can even take off a guard primer if you think the reward factor isn't high enough. for scenario 3, the opponent is taking a risk because he is guessing that the Rachel player is going to jC, and he is going to make the jC whiff via crouch position and is going to punish it with a combo scenario 4 comes if the opponent makes a mistake and the Rachel player uses jB instead of jC while the opponent is crouching. The opponent will eat a bnb 5B->CDC because of the increase stun from the crouch state. Really just brainstorming at 2AM so when I wake up and reflect on this it might sound retarded but heh.

[Rorshock520]

Okay, I'm sorry but Tempest Dahlia looks horrendous. I know, that the looks of moves are the least of Rachel's worries atm, but seriously? It just looks completely idiotic. It's almost as if they are trying to make Rachel a joke. Also, is location test 3 the last one? If so, Rachel seems pretty much screwed.

[Xtra_Zero]

I still think nearly all problems are solved by removing a wind bar.

[DC]

After watching a few more videos... is j.2c not jump or move cancelable ON HIT? Am I mistaken, or were the players just not canceling it? But yeah Tempest Dalia looks like a joke move. A giant cow? It also looks like Bang's umbrella DD that you can start blocking and/or tech out in the middle of the move if you get hit when you're in a certain position. No more j.2c, no more 6b (I love not punishing DPs), pumpkin hitstun is lol, George gets killed by jabs, j.a not an overhead, guard primer is the same as RG/Lambda/Carl so it might even be safe to assume Rachel now has 9.5 or 10k health instead of 10.5k...? Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[Tari]

With rumors this being the last location test, things aren't looking good for our favorite loli.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't true.

If it's the final loketest, then, well...

Won't stop me from playing her in CS, I suppose, but it won't feel the same.

[killionaire]

Yeah.. Just looked at the animations for TD.. Really sloppy job there, Arc Systems... I don't even see any way to combo into it, but maybe that's because I'm new. Anyway, I think it's time for the facepalm.

[Tari]

Yeah.. Just looked at the animations for TD..

Really sloppy job there, Arc Systems...

I don't even see any way to combo into it, but maybe that's because I'm new.

Anyway, I think it's time for the facepalm.

A couple of the videos (can't remember which ones off the top of my head) have players comboing into TD from various knockdowns, but it doesn't really look all that useful at the moment.

Not sure how tight the timing is for those combos, either.

TD is cute, but I'd gladly give it up if we could get a little bit of an un-nerf on the rest of Rachel's moveset.

[Soniti]

I still think nearly all problems are solved by removing a wind bar.

Even the current BB:CS Rachel would be INSANELY broken with that, lol. They would have to re-work her entire character to do that without it being the most overpowered thing ever.

Anyway, things are looking very bad for Rachel in BB:CS now. I really hope they have another loke test.

*i'll update the first post sometime soon. going to sleep for now.

[Tari]

Even the current BB:CS Rachel would be INSANELY broken with that, lol. They would have to re-work her entire character to do that without it being the most overpowered thing ever.

Anyway, things are looking very bad for Rachel in BB:CS now. I really hope they have another loke test.

*i'll update the first post sometime soon. going to sleep for now.

Somehow or another, I seem to be unable to follow your logic, here. By removing a wind bar, Rachel would be further broken, compared to how she is now?

I'm guessing a misread? xD

Also, at the suggestion, I'm not sure taking away a wind bar would really nerf her very much at all. The most I tend to use in any one go is 3 bars, because I dislike having no wind in reserve. If her wind meter were reduced to three instead of four sections, it'd be annoying, but certainly not stop her from being a frightening character to fight against.

[Soniti]

Somehow or another, I seem to be unable to follow your logic, here. By removing a wind bar, Rachel would be further broken, compared to how she is now?

I'm guessing a misread? xD

Also, at the suggestion, I'm not sure taking away a wind bar would really nerf her very much at all. The most I tend to use in any one go is 3 bars, because I dislike having no wind in reserve. If her wind meter were reduced to three instead of four sections, it'd be annoying, but certainly not stop her from being a frightening character to fight against.

We interpreted the previous person's post differently - me as not limiting her wind, you as removing a single bar. I would have been fine with them removing a single bar in exchange for giving back some of her old blockstrings.

Back to sleep...

[EvilWolf]

Tempest Dahlia's damage seems pretty low and looks like it's easy to avoid.

[iKotomi]

http://www.youtube.com/user/wx3016#p/u/9/2hw5kMiSw24 at around 47 seconds, does it look like her pumpkin just vanished for no reason?

[Tari]

We interpreted the previous person's post differently - me as not limiting her wind, you as removing a single bar. I would have been fine with them removing a single bar in exchange for giving back some of her old blockstrings.

Back to sleep...

Ah, I see where you're coming from. Anyway, I'd be fine with them nerfing out a single bar of wind, too, but I don't really see that happening at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wx3016#p/u/9/2hw5kMiSw24 at around 47 seconds, does it look like her pumpkin just vanished for no reason?

It... does seem that way. Perhaps the pumpkin has a timer or something on it, now, to help alleviate the fact that Rachel can't summon another one while it's out? Not sure if that would be a good thing, though, really.

[Emerald]

Tempest Dahlia's damage seems pretty low and looks like it's easy to avoid.

The damage does look rather low and it does seem like the objects move very slowly across the screen. Is Rachel able to be hit during it?

[Tari]

The damage does look rather low and it does seem like the objects move very slowly across the screen. Is Rachel able to be hit during it?

It would seem not.

That said, I haven't seen the more powerful forms of TD, yet. So far, I've only seen the one and two-wind stock versions. Not sure if the more powerful versions will be worthwhile, but... if so, it'd still be quite hard to combo into it without using wind.

[Xtra_Zero]

Even the current BB:CS Rachel would be INSANELY broken with that, lol. They would have to re-work her entire character to do that without it being the most overpowered thing ever.

Anyway, things are looking very bad for Rachel in BB:CS now. I really hope they have another loke test.

*i'll update the first post sometime soon. going to sleep for now.

Hahaha yeah I meant removing A wind bar not THE wind bar. Yeah that would be so broke it would be hilarious.

[Emerald]

It would seem not.

That said, I haven't seen the more powerful forms of TD, yet. So far, I've only seen the one and two-wind stock versions. Not sure if the more powerful versions will be worthwhile, but... if so, it'd still be quite hard to combo into it without using wind.

Depending on the invulnerability frames, it could be used as a defensive maneuver. I need to watch the video more to see how fast it is to start up.

According to this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/topic/2375101/1/

She is completely invincible during the Move and after watching the video they have of TD a few times, it has a start up similar to BBL.

[DC]

gave us alternative fair stuffs.

Uh... they did?