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[CS1] Rachel Info and Discussion

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Yep.. Things are going to completely suck for us, Team Loli... Thing that surprises me is the fact that Arcsys completely messed up with one specific character in almost every game (and iteration thereof) they made...

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I played CS Rachel last night. And she feels playable and is fun to play... until you look at your opponent's health bar and realize you're doing like no damage.

I agree with what ryoko said in that Rachel needs better ways of getting in against an opponent. But at the same time I think if she did a decent amount of damage, it'd make that long uphill battle of landing a solid hit at least worth it. :psyduck:

I agree. What many people don't seem to understand is that even though Rachel has combos that can do 2.5-3k in CS, the hits that actually land on an opponent nerf that damage heavily. j.3db, frog, and 2b are the main starters that actually land me hits. Any of those will drop that combo damage another 500 points or so. The only time I ever see damage that high is off a punish or a 5b counterhit.

I could kill an opponent 3 times over in CT compared with the amount of work I have to do in CS, and that's just from an offensive standpoint. You still have to do that while spending 70% of the match blocking and trying to get out of pressure. If your opponent is cautious and you are good at blocking, then you will almost certainly end up in a time-out situation win or lose.

Also, I don't understand how they could make 6b CH worthless when stuff like Ragna's 2c CH, Litchi's 6b CH and j.c CH, and Carl's 6[d] CH are still in the game. Whoever rebalanced Rachel was probably dumped by some crazy bitch dressed in goth loli fashion due to inadequacy in bed.

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2a, 6a, 2c, a/b lobelia, and iris are where I'd expect Rachel to be getting most of her hits in. I'm surprised that 2b is getting you anything, considering people don't really have any reason to block high, and frog isn't a threat anymore without Rachel's old RTSD gameplan. Her pressure is so weak I'm not even sure DPing is worth the risk; the only reason I'm not more sure is that even if she reads your DP, the damage she can get by punishing it isn't even that high. But I'm sure you'll still find people on Dustloop who won't admit that ASW fucked up.

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2C is still really risky to use, even with faster start up because you can still block it on reaction and smack Rachel for even thinking about using such a lulz tactic. I did the really basic 6A combo and netted barely 1.8k damage. Lobelia was still decent until they pulled out a projectile and then were kept pretty much safe because you couldn't keep an awaiting Iris right under them. To get them under rods, I had to purposely reposition myself vs. CT where my focus was on positioning the rods. I didn't get to try out 2A much because most of the time I was busy defending or running away to keep out of pressure. The only time I really got to be aggressive was in a Rachel mirror and even then I got a kill in with about 12 seconds left on the clock. It's... kind of sad that Rachel literally needs the entire clock to kill an opponent that isn't as gimped as she is (which is the entire cast).

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I'm thinking of trying Rachel out in CS because I like using bad/hard to use characters to see what I can do with them.

It's probably a bad idea but! You never know...

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Poor Rachel...She really didn't deserve all the nerfs she got. I mean some things needed some fixing but they went way overboard on her. I'm still gonna use my favorite vampire girl but it's gonna be struggle to fight with her now. But nothing ventured, nothing gained right? Oh and has anyone found any good use for her new distortion yet? Like can it be comboed into or anything like that?

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It can be comboed into itself. The damage is pretty lol though. Probably the only major use is how late the King George hit comes because it catches people off guard. But even then that's kinda gimmicky and even then Rachel can't do anything with that hit. As CS Rachel, your job is to annoy them with random pokes while running the hell away until 10 seconds are left. Then you use four winds to float to the top of the screen and win.

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As CS Rachel, your job is to annoy them with random pokes while running the hell away until 10 seconds are left. Then you use four winds to float to the top of the screen and win.

someone paste this onto a new thread and call it the advanced guide to continuum shift rachel,lol

we've got some pro stuff here

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It's lolzy, yet sadly that seems like such a valid strategy...

the only thing i'm scared of is that this character will have a lack high level players and therefor hardly anything will be found with her, so long as we have someone to work on her we should be fine but....seeing as how H.H is our last hope (and god forbid he's a tier whore) things are still not looking to good.. :8/:

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5cc loops do so little damage, but they're hilarious if you manage to catch someone with a 5c anti-air. Anyway, played a bit more at SVGL today and was quite irritated when I found myself only winning via timeouts. Admitably, I screwed up massively (didn't block most of the other guys' attacks), but still. :gonk:

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Does anyone have info on the initial proration on Rachel's attacks? Just wondering what her highest possible damage combo would be assuming she started with an attack that has minimal proration.. no matter how impossible it would be to actually hit and start a combo with. Also, aside from 5CC loops, haven't her changes opened up some new options? Or some absurd new tactic like summon pumpkin at SJ height > J.C Anti-air >wind pumpkin down (hit)> cat chair > ... lols. Keep in mind i haven't played CS or attempted such things in CT since she had more effective options.

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Her best combo damage probably starts with a lvl 3 j.2c fatal counter with 3 poles set up, land BBL, 236a 4d BBL frog combo into frog w/ putting out a pole, set off pole air combo.

You might even be able to do some slightly special combos after the frog due to the FC extra 2 frames untechable time. It might even be better to bypass the frog all together and do some undiscovered FC air loop. Too bad nobody cares about Rachel anymore so nothing gets discovered.

I bet that begins to approach 5k! To bad it will never happen in a match. Ever. Not kidding, it won't happen a single time.

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Also, aside from 5CC loops, haven't her changes opened up some new options? Or some absurd new tactic like summon pumpkin at SJ height > J.C Anti-air >wind pumpkin down (hit)> cat chair > ... lols.

Keep in mind i haven't played CS or attempted such things in CT since she had more effective options.

i can't remember if in CT you could summon pumpkin in air after you use an air lobelia, but you could in this game, that and air iris are the only new options given to her imo.

i'm pretty sure pumpkin at SJ height is worthless, it doesn't reach the floor, but i can't remember if it'll at least reach down to hit past anyone's head

i feel like her guard crush game may be an answer since she can take 2 primers off of one block string, if they don't counterattack/DP the 4b. and maybe you can try to sneak in a second 5b, 4b, then 5cdc. lol

is there anyone else who can take off multiple primers off a single blockstring?

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i can't remember if in CT you could summon pumpkin in air after you use an air lobelia, but you could in this game, that and air iris are the only new options given to her imo.

i'm pretty sure pumpkin at SJ height is worthless, it doesn't reach the floor, but i can't remember if it'll at least reach down to hit past anyone's head

i feel like her guard crush game may be an answer since she can take 2 primers off of one block string, if they don't counterattack/DP the 4b. and maybe you can try to sneak in a second 5b, 4b, then 5cdc. lol

is there anyone else who can take off multiple primers off a single blockstring?

Guard crushing in this game is extremely useless. Plus, the moves that can remove guard primer in that block string are both unsafe on block. Even if she guard crushes, you're looking at probably 2kish damage or less.

Lambda and Litchi > Rachel's GP game.

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Also, aside from 5CC loops, haven't her changes opened up some new options? Or some absurd new tactic like summon pumpkin at SJ height > J.C Anti-air >wind pumpkin down (hit)> cat chair > ... lols.

thanks to the reduced recovery of a cannon, you can do (a cannon crouching hit - slightly dash 5b) x n against hazama, tsubaki, jin, and lambda. timing is extremely strict, and dmg is......:psyduck:

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I forgot to mention that you can connect tempest after a 5c. Also, there is a theoretical combo that I always seem to forget to try so I'm posting it here if someone wants to try it: (corner only) 5b 5c > lvl 3 or 4 tempest > 236a > BBL > sj. 8d2dc > frog > 3c > pumpkin > 5cc x2 > 3c frog I'm pretty sure that's enough time in between frogs to summon another for oki. The thing I'm not sure about is positioning correctly for BBL after tempest (probably different for lvl 3 and lvl 4) and whether or not there's enough time to add a pole in between.

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I forgot to mention that you can connect tempest after a 5c. Also, there is a theoretical combo that I always seem to forget to try so I'm posting it here if someone wants to try it:

(corner only) 5b 5c > lvl 3 or 4 tempest > 236a > BBL > sj. 8d2dc > frog > 3c > pumpkin > 5cc x2 > 3c frog

I'm pretty sure that's enough time in between frogs to summon another for oki. The thing I'm not sure about is positioning correctly for BBL after tempest (probably different for lvl 3 and lvl 4) and whether or not there's enough time to add a pole in between.

thats not the only problem w/ the combo..

1. 100% heat

2. lol at Rachel cornering somemone

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thats not the only problem w/ the combo..

1. 100% heat

2. lol at Rachel cornering somemone

Better to have a good 100% heat combo up your sleeve than to have none at all.

Cornering is about the only thing she can do well. Just look at winded 236a, winded frog, and how the shorter range on pumpkin lets you use it consecutively in one direction. She can still keep opponents in block stun for awhile but she can't mix them up well or deal heavy damage. Corner frame traps with 236a, iris, and dash 2a/5b are some of her best options in CS because she's still decent at it - maybe even slightly better.

Rachel is shit tier, but the last thing I want to see is people using it as a crutch for sucking.

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I'll do my best to not suck with Rachel. Even if she is in a wheel chair. ... Just for when I want to win, I'll also be playing Arakune and Carl (or Hazama).

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well kro_ i guess we can still count on you to find good stuff with Rachel, the consecutive pumpkins in one direction does sound nice, i know your doing stuff with tsubaki, but Rachel needs someone Q_Q Edit: i didnt mean keeping someone cornered just to clear up confusion i meant actually getting them there...

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