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SandyBelle

[CS1] Lambda General Discussion

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It draws more of a pedo/weeaboo fanbase. You know, the people who waste money on anything?

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How interesting that they've made the female characters some of the more powerful characters in GG and BB

Sexist much? :lol: jk jk.. I know what you mean. And as he said, it is a selling point as well.

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The overall rank is an arbitrary assessment meaning you could assign any value to it regardless of what her factors include which seems to reflect her tier placements.... It's not like SJ is taking the average of each factor and concluded it was B. I however felt there were minor conflicts within each factor at least little buff here and there, lets say mix up if you can react to tk 2147 feint you can leave it at D. As for pressure, Lambda is full screen away where it stops or not she is still full screen away and freely allows to pressure you again or react to jump and push you back into primer reduction.

I'm not one to take a character analysis seriously unless one of my lambda gods wrote since the experience of watching a match isn't the same as playing it. You can't feel being frame trap or you've realize the opponent has exerted great pressure that you only could had defend. Gravity is probably the SRK in BB CS atm if you factor in combo but its not in CH state at least. people with poor standing combo can't punish it more than A B C special, TT (top tier) however are different but that's the same with all punishable attack against TT characters.

TK Cresent Saber is a 20 frame overhead (17 from the move itself and I think 3 for Lambda to jump). It's an okay overhead, and the return from it varies (screen positioning, meter, etc.). It might hit every now and then like all overheads of that speed, but it's not a reliable mix up.

Pressure generally means how well that character can keep you locked in block stun or scared to move. Whether it's at full screen or up close, Lambda can do neither very well. Since 5D and 4D are not JCable anymore, her pressure at full screen is pretty weak. Sure, you might have to guess a little bit after pressure resets at all screen, but it's not like you're unable to move or are forced to sit there and block.

Regarding the "Overall" rank, yes, it's not an average. It shouldn't be an average either.

In regards to why I left out Lambda's ability to break guard primers, I honestly forgot about it. However, guard breaking should not be included because it's far from the primary goal of her gameplan. Sure, she can break guard better than most characters, but a lot of her guard breaking moves are pretty slow and can be reacted to. Buzzsaw and Spike Chaser can be avoided in most cases (the former in pretty much almost every time), and Cavalier can be unsafe. Lambda's best chances of breaking guard is if she forces someone to block her multi-hit super. Honestly, how many Lambda videos do you see where the player is trying to force guard break all the time?

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Does it seem right to those people who have used Lambda a lot?

Yea, Spirit Frog's assessment is about right. But the mixup is more of a C (Maybe D+/C-) since you can cancel crescent hammers for some really creative mixups. Too bad you can only special cancel crescent from a few moves only.

Spike chaser is nice on a knock down, though.

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TK Cresent Saber is a 20 frame overhead (17 from the move itself and I think 3 for Lambda to jump). It's an okay overhead, and the return from it varies (screen positioning, meter, etc.). It might hit every now and then like all overheads of that speed, but it's not a reliable mix up.

Pressure generally means how well that character can keep you locked in block stun or scared to move. Whether it's at full screen or up close, Lambda can do neither very well. Since 5D and 4D are not JCable anymore, her pressure at full screen is pretty weak. Sure, you might have to guess a little bit after pressure resets at all screen, but it's not like you're unable to move or are forced to sit there and block.

Regarding the "Overall" rank, yes, it's not an average. It shouldn't be an average either.

In regards to why I left out Lambda's ability to break guard primers, I honestly forgot about it. However, guard breaking should not be included because it's far from the primary goal of her gameplan. Sure, she can break guard better than most characters, but a lot of her guard breaking moves are pretty slow and can be reacted to. Buzzsaw and Spike Chaser can be avoided in most cases (the former in pretty much almost every time), and Cavalier can be unsafe. Lambda's best chances of breaking guard is if she forces someone to block her multi-hit super. Honestly, how many Lambda videos do you see where the player is trying to force guard break all the time?

Lots of text as usually...

A 17 frame overhead doesn't stop it from being ambiguous within its feint cancel which is the primary objective of using lambda. Since focusing on lambda high and low games requires a level of yomi than actual reaction itself cannot be reliable. If you believe its within human speed to react to feint from normal tk crescent saber than fine you can say her mix up are terrible~~

lol, I can't believe you would called it buzzsaw... awell words I would never use.... but as it goes you can make your opponent block those by making them land into it.. which is doesn't by them trying to spike chaser via jump and air pressure lock down into 236d. Guard crush isn't her primary game in itself but its what sets her combo situation.. causing them to jump its actually doing two things at once, a focus on guard crush applying pressure via primer reduction and setting it aerial opponent for AA its into larger damage.

From what I've highlighting saying her best chance to guard crush is doing her super is rather a falsely looked upon view.. she has an equal chance of guard crushing her opponent even tk crescent saber can break primer and with that people block those more often. primer reduction is a part of her game, even if she doesn't continuously do it her opponent are reminded she has that ability and when your opponent is sitting at one primer.. the game becomes more fun with them barrier everything, or bursting. The reason lambda doesn't force it all the time because a burst is follow after a guards crush which is in her favour... if I say lambda is the queen of making people burst that in itself is true..

"Pressure generally means how well that character can keep you locked in block stun or scared to move."

How about this if "lambda does nothing so will her opponent" I'm generalizing how her pressure game can be reactive because at full screen her opponent has less option than what she's capable.

Lambda pressure forces them to jump but by jumping cautiously where lambda can pressuring you into an aerial lock down and push them back or block string into 236 D i wouldn't say her pressure game are terrible where in most cases it only sets up a better pressure game with the opponent being airborne.

just minor issues I have as D implies very terrible.. I wouldn't say they are D lvl rank even, unless you want to imply she is at Rachele level.

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Yea, Spirit Frog's assessment is about right. But the mixup is more of a C (Maybe D+/C-) since you can cancel crescent hammers for some really creative mixups. Too bad you can only special cancel crescent from a few moves only.

Spike chaser is nice on a knock down, though.

You can still link tk crescent from any move it doesn't have to be jump cancel to be effective.

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Lots of text as usually...

A 17 frame overhead doesn't stop it from being ambiguous within its feint cancel which is the primary objective of using lambda. Since focusing on lambda high and low games requires a level of yomi than actual reaction itself cannot be reliable. If you believe its within human speed to react to feint from normal tk crescent saber than fine you can say her mix up are terrible~~

lol, I can't believe you would called it buzzsaw... awell words I would never use.... but as it goes you can make your opponent block those by making them land into it.. which is doesn't by them trying to spike chaser via jump and air pressure lock down into 236d. Guard crush isn't her primary game in itself but its what sets her combo situation.. causing them to jump its actually doing two things at once, a focus on guard crush applying pressure via primer reduction and setting it aerial opponent for AA its into larger damage.

From what I've highlighting saying her best chance to guard crush is doing her super is rather a falsely looked upon view.. she has an equal chance of guard crushing her opponent even tk crescent saber can break primer and with that people block those more often. primer reduction is a part of her game, even if she doesn't continuously do it her opponent are reminded she has that ability and when your opponent is sitting at one primer.. the game becomes more fun with them barrier everything, or bursting. The reason lambda doesn't force it all the time because a burst is follow after a guards crush which is in her favour... if I say lambda is the queen of making people burst that in itself is true..

"Pressure generally means how well that character can keep you locked in block stun or scared to move."

How about this if "lambda does nothing so will her opponent" I'm generalizing how her pressure game can be reactive because at full screen her opponent has less option than what she's capable.

Lambda pressure forces them to jump but by jumping cautiously where lambda can pressuring you into an aerial lock down and push them back or block string into 236 D i wouldn't say her pressure game are terrible where in most cases it only sets up a better pressure game with the opponent being airborne.

just minor issues I have as D implies very terrible.. I wouldn't say they are D lvl rank even, unless you want to imply she is at Rachele level.

Feint is 12+21 frames of recovery. How is that impossible to react to?

I'm not sure of any guarenteed set ups that make people land into buzzsaw/sickle/whatever you want to call it (I don't actually know the real name... I think it's Sickle something? :lol:). The move doesn't get much use otherwise. Regarding Spike Chaser and forcing people to jump over it, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. I guess if you want to really get technical you could say that people jump over it so they don't lose a guard primer, allowing her to try to AA out of the sky, but that's kind of stretching it. Spike Chaser forces a jump, but it's purpose is to force a jump, not break a primer. The only reason it breaks a primer is so that you just don't sit there and block them without any real worry. Breaking guard primers is part of her game, but it's not the primary focus of her game.

At full screen, Lambda is zoning you, not pressuring you. It doesn't take long before she can't shoot swords anymore and both players are back to neutral. When the momentum is neutral, no pressure is going on.

D is generally "below average". C is "average".

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In regards to "reacting" to a 2147D©, it's generally advised not to try anything. You're risking a CH, although from a 2147D CH isn't that bad in CS unless you're in or near a corner where Lambda could rapid and 6A loop. It's nearly the same as any wake up game. You normally want to play it safe instead of mashing out a button on your wake up and hoping to change the flow of the game. Besides, even Bang's almighty 5A is out of range when it comes to 2147D.

I'm pretty certain you can make someone fall onto a saw blade if you 214D© > 2DD > 6DD > saw blade if spacing is correct. It's possible but not 100%.

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Feint is 12+21 frames of recovery. How is that impossible to react to?

20+ recovery frames are not including due to landing canceling out any recovery meaning its it can a 3~7 frames of recovery.

I'm not sure of any guarenteed set ups that make people land into buzzsaw/sickle/whatever you want to call it (I don't actually know the real name... I think it's Sickle something? :lol:). The move doesn't get much use otherwise. Regarding Spike Chaser and forcing people to jump over it, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. I guess if you want to really get technical you could say that people jump over it so they don't lose a guard primer, allowing her to try to AA out of the sky, but that's kind of stretching it. Spike Chaser forces a jump, but it's purpose is to force a jump, not break a primer. The only reason it breaks a primer is so that you just don't sit there and block them without any real worry. Breaking guard primers is part of her game, but it's not the primary focus of her game.

At full screen, Lambda is zoning you, not pressuring you. It doesn't take long before she can't shoot swords anymore and both players are back to neutral. When the momentum is neutral, no pressure is going on.

D is generally "below average". C is "average".

probably more akin to an arbitrary scoring..... since I wouldn't say getting a D on a test is below average but failing. Spike chase makes people jump but you can stop air advancement with 6dd and 2dd as an aerial block string since those are jump cancel-able......into jc j2dd ectera the pressures goes. Spike chaser forcing people to jump however it doesn't mean it stop functioning as a primer reduction remove its not a matter of semantics as spike chase does reduce primer whether they jump or not another factor is it. ( ahhaha, awell~~)

zoning and pressure are interchangeable terms since both meaning are equivalent with regards to a zoning character. You can arguing zoning is a form of pressure. Venom is an example where it's a set of pressure and zoning game, hence it is an interchangeable term when you talking about zoning characters. Is her zoning game stagnate where she doesn't have much option? its still reactive where unless lambda does something he opponent can only take action afterward.. I suppose my view of pressure is different since to me forcing a jump is an effective form of pressure while limiting option are consider or constant blocking string are common conception to pressuring...

A character analysis should include guard crush since it isn't a minor factor but plays into her character being more prominent than what you believe. It's the same way people do include unblock-able into character analysis although it would depend on its influence factor, guard crush is the same here, it has enough influence that it should be included for a complete analysis. I don't agree with the scoring but since you're using a different standard to what use to I'm going to leave it at that.

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At full screen, Lambda is zoning you, not pressuring you. It doesn't take long before she can't shoot swords anymore and both players are back to neutral. When the momentum is neutral, no pressure is going on.

To build on this:

Zoning is controlling space from a distance, which is usually used in neutral situations.

Pressure is more or less someone on the defensive trying to block, while someone on the offensive trying to frame-trap/mixup/throw.

zoning and pressure are interchangeable terms since both meaning are equivalent with regards to a zoning character. You can arguing zoning is a form of pressure. Venom is an example where it's a set of pressure and zoning game, hence it is an interchangeable term when you talking about zoning characters. Is her zoning game stagnate where she doesn't have much option? its still reactive where unless lambda does something he opponent can only take action afterward.. I suppose my view of pressure is different since to me forcing a jump is an effective form of pressure while limiting option are consider or constant blocking string are common conception to pressuring...

They're completely different as they define two different states of the game. Controlling space during a neutral situation isn't pressure, whether you're a zoning character or not.

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seems to be an argument of semantics. I can create pressure by moving forward, as the term implies it is a forces or an exertion of forces distance isn't a problem but whether you can argue how effective it is. Would you like to define neutral for a zoning type characters since pressure or block string can be achieve anywhere on the screen if there was a neutral it would be the other person being at a disadvantage which is never even unless the zoning characters is blocking.

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You're trying to describe how someone feels/reacts during a match depending on the situation... and that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We're talking about to describe different states of the game. If you can't grasp that concept I don't know what to tell you.

You're saying that there are no neutral game situations for a zoning character? Try the beginning of a match... that's a good place to start.

I'm done here.

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You're trying to describe how someone feels/reacts during a match depending on the situation... and that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We're talking about to describe different states of the game. If you can't grasp that concept I don't know what to tell you.

You're saying that there are no neutral game situations for a zoning character? Try the beginning of a match... that's a good place to start.

I'm done here.

I feel your stuck to traditional game-play which hasn't evolved.. the concept while grasp should be more complicated to include other things. Round start is only at that instance since the position and movability is null. You can argue there is neutrality because time has stop but once the match begins and people start moving there is zero neutrality, you either block from full screen or attack your opposition as there is no such thing as a breathing zone with zoner. If you provide space your 'neutrality' you're only inviting an offensive from a zoning type characters. There is always action because it is not in your best interest to go into neutral~

Feel free to stop posting~ :yaaay:

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zaeris you're dumb

says the one liner~~

dumbass.. can't you do better than sprout insults... lol.. well I figure since its DL filled with noobs ^^.

awell I was having fun making debates regardless of the outcome.

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Well, to be fair zae, you do have a radical disposition on neutrality.

Being in a neutral state is exactly as it say, no pressure, no momentum, both characters and players are at square one. There do exist neutral positions for zoning characters, particularly BB zoning characters, in Lambda's case, if you can't touch your opponent with a zoning attack, then it's still neutral, they aren't being pressured and neither of you have any momentum.

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Well, to be fair zae, you do have a radical disposition on neutrality.

Being in a neutral state is exactly as it say, no pressure, no momentum, both characters and players are at square one. There do exist neutral positions for zoning characters, particularly BB zoning characters, in Lambda's case, if you can't touch your opponent with a zoning attack, then it's still neutral, they aren't being pressured and neither of you have any momentum.

I probably should stop trolling people around ^^, a well, but if anyone wants to keep going at it and entertain me with constructive argument I wouldn't mind the challenging even playing the devil sometimes. Okay you've won, I will find something else to entertain myself or when the next person makes a post I can play with.

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hmm, one thing i wish they'd change for the console version is to make her 236d like hit on animation. like the hitbox is half the area of the actual wheel and has several frames delay before the first hit actually goes. either keep it the same and adjust the animation accordingly or adjust the move itself so it fits with its animation. just 2 cents.

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In addition to that, I really wish they'd make Lambda create a small orb with her hands that appears only on the startup of a Gravity Seed attack as to extend the range of it. I've seen that reversal whiff 80% of the time with the pros.

It wouldn't improve it really from what it's used now. However, I just hate it now since everyone can safely poke at a distance that is not point blank. Sure, they could block it the same even if the hitbox is bigger, but at least it wouldn't whiff (and with that Primer breaker, it wouldn't be a complete loss).

We need a reason for the charge up time of Gravity Seeds to be 12 seconds, unlike those other DP attacks that have the same punish-ability, but with much less room for error.

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The goal was to make it easier to get to her, that's perfectly possible, she keeps her run-away abilities, and now has a 1 frame full body invulnerability reversal.

Worst case scenario, you can always burst if your afraid of close combat.

With Lambda's playstyle, the opponent should be rewarded with getting close to her, not shut down with an easy reversal, only to have a 16 (or 12 in your case) second chance to get back in.

I think Lambda is doing just fine.

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I agree with Skye here, giving lambda a safe panic move other than her burst would negate her intended weakness.

I rather think they've done a fine job rebalancing top tier Nu into lambda without really changing how she plays for the most part. I also like the way they managed to add two whole new characters and make them mid tier.

Now if only they hadn't been so heavy handed with Rachel.

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