[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[DF2K]

Not to mention how well you can avoid losing primers, if such a skill exists. Doesn't Arakune have a trick where he can break up to five primers in a block string? Carl only has 4.

[feri]

So everyone else was mashing that j.2c j.c link? Hilarious

Ara is harder to block when its crossups/fake crossups which he can opt to do off the overhead/low moves (more ways to block is more mind fuck). Im not sold on it being so easy to defend when a skilled arakune gets you cursed.

Im not so sure you'd want to 2c jumpins as tech traps when 6a is so good (beats moves), prorates 100%, safe-ish on whiff, CH looks like it has potential, needs to be barrier guarded, better options on block. Also, since when was 8d techable in the air? =/

Kyle: Seems really hard. Burst is really fast in this game in comparison to the recovery of moves. If you can construct anything i'll be all ears though.

[ZONG_one]

That's why I say block in the air.

It eliminates the high low game, and slows down crossups.

[soujiro seta]

The best thing to do when under curse versus arakune is jump in the air as Zong said. It eliminates the high and low guess work. All you have to worry about is getting crossed up. The 2nd best thing is to input volante when you can. Volante is a curse killer, assuming you can block accordingly till it hits.

There is a vid in which one carl did this, when I find it I'll post it and show you.

[||||||]

Arakune CD bugs keep you grounded so jumping out of it is out of the question. When he locking you down with 2a+a bug, and goes for the 214C+D crossup. abug and cbug will keep you grounded and the d bug will prevent you from jumping. Even if you block this he can get an overhead with j.c, 214c and the bird will pop u up into 236C+D loop. Either that or you guard break.

[Adelheid]

Not to mention how well you can avoid losing primers, if such a skill exists. Doesn't Arakune have a trick where he can break up to five primers in a block string? Carl only has 4.

You can get out if you IB well.

So everyone else was mashing that j.2c j.c link? Hilarious

Ara is harder to block when its crossups/fake crossups which he can opt to do off the overhead/low moves (more ways to block is more mind fuck). Im not sold on it being so easy to defend when a skilled arakune gets you cursed.

Crossups are easy enough to get out of though. Because, if he goes in the air you can just 236B and get right out of there. Even if you get tagged by a random bug after the invuln is gone, he'll be too far away to do anything off of it. His teleports all have enough startup and you can watch for them so you shouldn't really get hit by bug+teleport crossups if you're on your A game. Even if he does a meaty crossup, there's just no reason you should ever get hit by them, with almost every character and that includes Arakune, thanks to double buffering.

EDIT: Hey this is gonna get asked so I'm gonna head it off at the pass right now.

Double buffer is a kind of option select where you buffer in a move once forwards and once backwards. If you don't have a move with that motion's reverse in it (example 623 versus 421) then you'll get your attack regardless of whether you're crossed up or not, because if you aren't your game will see your forward motion and if you aren't it'll see your backward motion. You can't do this if you have the motion forward or back, or it'll do the move for whatever motion you entered most recently.

Carl doesn't have a 214B, or anything at all similar to that, so if it's safe to Vivace, as is pretty much the case here, you can do 2363214 as your motion to do Vivace even if you're crossed up.

EDIT: Also I'm thinking of making a Carl CS tutorial video. My Carl is not very good but I have a strong technical knowledge of Carl and the game as a whole, plus I have a pretty good recording setup for CS so. What sort of things would you all think is important to have in there? I have my own ideas but I want to get input from other people.

[||||||]

yea i had a feeling someone was gonna say vivace, but all arakune have to do is hit a bug once he seen u vivace. once the a bug hits the d bug will come and that will keep you blocking once the d bug hits, he can do bc bug and d bug again which will give him enough time to get to you and go for mixup. all it takes is one random bug.

[Adelheid]

A-bug takes a bit over a second before it'll hit Carl from that positioning though. Ara player's gonna have to throw it hella early for it to hit you out of Vivace, no way he can react to it to hit you... He can't always use it to cover the hole either unless you're cornered in which case the crossup is a non-issue.

I mean I'm not gonna say it's perfect or anything. But it does deal with Ara's options kinda well in ways. His pressure is not perfect and at any given time if you IB well you have options, even if they're not immediately escaping.

[ZONG_one]

Pigg, I know you can block Ara 214CD cross up, don't give me that.

:P

It's not an easy match up for Carl at all, but ehh.

You just really can't afford to get hit.

[feri]

6a > j.c > bugs

6a > 2b > bugs

fuzzy guards =(

[||||||]

Pigg, I know you can block Ara 214CD cross up, don't give me that.

Where do you see I said you couldnt block. Go re-read what I said. Also, Example what i mean when trying to get out with vivace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkSDPIFVor4

We as in U.S players won't have problems getting out of U.S Arakune pressure.

[DF2K]

OK so I tried the FC combo that I mentioned earlier. The proration from the j.2c's butchers the hell out of it (came out to be about 3.2k, which isn't bad... but not amazing enough to consider), and my friend and I were more interested in playing matches than testing Carl theories. :P

In a situation where you could choose between a 6a CH, or 2c FCH, would 6a still be the best route?

[Adelheid]

Where do you see I said you couldnt block. Go re-read what I said. Also, Example what i mean when trying to get out with vivace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkSDPIFVor4

We as in U.S players won't have problems getting out of U.S Arakune pressure.

Well. That's interesting, hadn't seen that come up before. Although I should point out it didn't disadvantage the Carl to do.

In a situation where you could choose between a 6a CH, or 2c FCH, would 6a still be the best route?

Yeah pretty much. 6A is a ridiculously better move than 2C.

[DF2K]

It was worth speculating. OH WELL

Btw, 6a CH, sjc j.b, 214c, 8d, 2d loop~ = maximum lol, because Carl's hat is involved.

[feri]

It was worth speculating. OH WELL

Btw, 6a CH, (don't sjc) j.b, 214c, 8d, IAD 2d loop~ = maximum lol, because Carl's hat is involved.

Its not lols, its optimal.

[Xithmos]

I will also offer to make a video, but one of the mix-ups and cross-ups that soujiro seta wrote in his other thread. This is assuming I'm still at home for the summer.

Also, what if we use Carl's projectile 421]D[ on the opponent's wake up? For example...

*bare with me here since I haven't played CS Carl yet*

Assuming it's CON:

xx>]2D[>j2C>jC>2D hits>3C>421]D[>xx

I don't know how long the tech time is on the 2D, but I'm guessing that it's the same as 8D, being un-techable. If they tech backwards (towards Carl), they'll possibly get hit by the projectile and we can go for another j2C loop. If they tech neutrally, they are forced (possibly) to block it and we can go for a 5B>IAD>j2C allecan>xx reset or anything else. But the only problem with this is that they might delay their neutral wake-up. Finally, if they tech forward (towards Ada), they won't be able to tech and we can go for an easy j2C loop since they'll be closer to Ada.

This all depends on their tech time and such. :/

What do you guys think? Is it plausible?

[Zoogstin]

I've seen Carl players put a meaty volante on top of the opponent for wakeup. Carl still has to be careful because the opponent can reversal with an invincible move and hit him. Other than that its a legit strat I believe.

[DF2K]

I use meaty volante from time to time. It's very good for C-O-N positioning and you're trying to play burst safe.

[Kyle]

Any new discoveries for buRst safe stuff?

[DF2K]

Any new discoveries for bust safe stuff?

Don't break the law....

Nothing BBCS exclusive other than the volante idea, at least to my knowledge.

[DF2K]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtBA6-qDRQ

My BBCS Carl.

Some things to note: I can't do 236236 or 214214 supers because I'm a huge scrub. Sometimes I can, but it's rare to the point that I don't even attempt it. Keep in mind that these are also casuals and we're both mostly just experimenting with random crap.

[Kyle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtBA6-qDRQ

My BBCS Carl.

Some things to note: I can't do 236236 or 214214 supers because I'm a huge scrub. Sometimes I can, but it's rare to the point that I don't even attempt it. Keep in mind that these are also casuals and we're both mostly just experimenting with random crap.

You're really going places bro. You've got a much stronger CS Carl than mine right now. Good job keeping up with that Tao.

[CakeWasBannedd]

Would you say this tao is good

[Kyle]

...Nothing BBCS exclusive other than the volante idea, at least to my knowledge.

Has anybody played around with 2C as a burst punish. It would be nice if Carl was in "low profile" long enough to make a burst whiff. This would obviously be from ground to air.

opponent in air: Carl 6A, opponent burst, Carl 2C burst misses, Carl recovers and punishes.

Does this gatlin?

5B, 2C

6A, 2C

No comment about Tao's "level of play", regardless Carl has a hard time dealing with 6K DMG. =P

[Marionette Pwii]

its my birthday and I just got an xbox and blazblue so I might help out around here more X3