[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[ZONG_one]

Akiro, yeah, it's pretty cool to have, but all of it is so situational.

Also, Stark. A simple DP will get them out of the "other thing," wouldn't it?

[Adelheid]

Well, of course. A simple DP will get you out of any reset if you time it right and it isn't baited; DPs will of course also screw up the first version. Although luckily, in these strings you can abort to block at almost any time by neglecting to use a meaty attack on their wakeup or by using allecan to land and block.

[ZONG_one]

mmhm. Well, yes, the same with every reset. You have a point.

Just the mash 2A 2B part was a little funny.

It's like noel mashing 5A on your wake up.

The thing that I hate is, I play with friends who love DP.

And no, they aren't dumb with it. They love to reversal everything.

Bane of my existence.

[Adelheid]

Well the idea is that you react to any action with 2A 2B so that if they didn't neutral tech you can hitconfirm to a short combo and knockdown. If they neutral tech you would stop with the button pressing so that you could time a meaty, or jump and instant barrier to bait and punish a DP. So I guess mashing isn't quite correct. (Although it can be quite gratifying anyway.)

[ZONG_one]

Totally get what you're saying.

Ok, speaking of DP's vs. Carl.

I'm decent at baiting DP's, so when Ragna DP's on wake up and RC's it..

He usually does falling j.C, right?

Have you been able to react and 6A this?

If so, how effective has it been for you.

I can't ever seem to punish the RC correctly. I would feel great making them waste 50 meter for nothing.

[Adelheid]

Used it in match today

It's pretty solid

Also I don't really try to punish Ragna ID RC because really, them doing jC out of it is... Not something they do always. Veteru is pretty smart about not being baited after that, and Kaigu is okay at it, so mostly I just try to get away in that time.

[ZONG_one]

Well, then what did you do to get them to start blocking after the RC, instead of attacking?

Doesn't matter, if they don't always j.C, what are they doing after, instead?

[Mascarpone]

totaly unrelated to current DP talk

Remember the not-un-blockable Con Anima Sandwich mix up? I was thinking about it, and while it's pretty apparent what to do if the throw break, shouldn't there be some conceivable way to take advantage of the throw follow up? I messed with it in CT and there is enough time to switch sides via vivace, jump up and combo them in the air briefly. trouble is even if u delay it out long enough, j.b j.b j.236c hits them over nirvana. I was wondering, is there an air combo follow up that is long enough for nirvana to recover and low enough to slap them into another 8D?

Maybe something to the effect of j.2c, j.b, j.c and.. does j.c combo into allegretto? I just feel like there should be some way to take them not teching the throw and work it into, at the very least, some oki shenanigans.

[ZONG_one]

How about just j.B Allegretto 8D?

Don't double jump.

Also, we discussed what to do if they don't tech.

[Adelheid]

I just do 2C 8D <_<

[ZONG_one]

I just do 2C 8D <_<

Not that there isn't a valid time to do that..

I just laugh every time I see someone do it.

I really don't know why.

The only time I think I ever use 2C is before BBU.

[Mascarpone]

How about just j.B Allegretto 8D?

Don't double jump.

Also, we discussed what to do if they don't tech.

does she recover quick enough for that? i feel like they could tech out before it activates. My brain is still in old mechanics mode tho

[feri]

Wont a standard backthrow combo work? 236a 5c j.b 8d

Since they looked exactly the same I thought they have the exact same untech time (guess I thought wrong and rather stupidly).

Also, you could try 236a j.2c~allecan 5c j.b j.c 8d. If she still doesnt recover there is no hope.

[Adelheid]

Not that there isn't a valid time to do that..

I just laugh every time I see someone do it.

I really don't know why.

The only time I think I ever use 2C is before BBU.

Well, I do my Vivace pretty late in order to, after confirming the through, make sure I don't collide with the opponent as Ada slams them to the ground, which would push them out of the combo. So it's always felt like there was never enough time to do anything else.

Also, you could try 236a j.2c~allecan 5c j.b j.c 8d. If she still doesnt recover there is no hope.

Just the same, if you can j2C consistently there, you can definitely get that.

Also

Well, then what did you do to get them to start blocking after the RC, instead of attacking?

Doesn't matter, if they don't always j.C, what are they doing after, instead?

Various things. Although, looking at CS frame data, you can't 6A. You have to air instant faultless and land to even have a frame to do anything, because you'll be in 11 frames of blockstun that way compared to 12 frames of startup on jC. So I think even if you did 6A in time, they'd probably just land and block, then punish you.

I guess backdash to dodge the jC, although you certainly wouldn't get advantage since Ragna would probably land not too far into that and throw something out for you to have to block or otherwise invuln through (and you couldn't just backdash again while having Ada do something, due to Carl not being able to backdash for 6 frames after backdashing.)

[soujiro seta]

Guys, what the heck? The carl forums is semi-dead? I can't believe this. I disappear for a while and this place becomes a desert? Especially you Zong, I would have expected some trolling from you atleast to liven this place up a bit . Lol, I'm just joking.

Anyway I found some new stuff, and I'll post them when I return, and update the reset thread. Also, Stark, or those who have constant access to CS, I'll need you to try something out. I think it might work as a reset

[feri]

People post when they have new information (information not discussed even though its known counts as new) or to answer questions.

Posting for the sake of posting is like BB general, don't bring that shit in here.

Edit: Just post whatever resets you have and I can test them cause I'm playing tomorrow.

[Kyle]

Someone make a video of the Tager ownage from corner airthorw pls.

[feri]

Got nothing to record with =/

Will try if I can build a stable reset off 6d > jump > low airdash j.a x n > 3d today

[Adelheid]

Someone make a video of the Tager ownage from corner airthorw pls.

Would you believe... I want to, but I'm still not quite sure how it works? Same with the midscreen version.

[ZONG_one]

Hey hey, I'm here! :trollface:

Lol, but seriously, I have a question on the Kyaku rep of the 2D loop.

Is the timing j.2C allecan > volante > 5C, or j.2C allecan > 5C > volante buffer?

Also, do we know what the best route is off of Volante relaunch?

[||||||]

Hey hey, I'm here! :trollface:

Lol, but seriously, I have a question on the Kyaku rep of the 2D loop.

Is the timing j.2C allecan > volante > 5C, or j.2C allecan > 5C > volante buffer?

Also, do we know what the best route is off of Volante relaunch?

the way i do it is j.2C, 421CD, 5C

[ZONG_one]

the way i do it is j.2C, 421CD, 5C

Thanks Pigg.

Got that part after messing with it for a few mins.

What do I do after volante hits?

[Zoogstin]

I've seen j.2C allecan then jB j214C into 8D

or

j.2C j.C jc jB 8D

[||||||]

Thanks Pigg.

Got that part after messing with it for a few mins.

What do I do after volante hits?

after that part u do j.2c allecan, j.b, j.c, 8d, j.2cd, j.c(2 reps), j.2c, j.214c, 8d.

Kyle edit:

J.2C, Alle~can, J.B, J.C, 8]D[, J.2C, J.C, 2]D[, J.2C, J.C, 2]D[, J.2C, J.214C, 8]D[.

[Adelheid]

J.2C, J.C, 2]D[

How will this input ever hit?