[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Akira-Shiro]

but people already turtle against carl.... this just makes things even more annoying,,, 70% of Ada's life tryin ta catch them & the last 30% combo-ing them -_- for only 3-4k.....

Also BBCS2 5b>6b>6D 1.2k ?.? they nerfed his damage while they were at it =( im not lookin forward to carl in BBCS2 at all

[Mr Oso]

I see what you mean with the whole health thing but carls not just straight poo like most people are making him out to seem. Even if i have to work a little bit harder to pull out a win it only makes the win so much more rewarding. . . .imo

I actually like all the 3D combos though just wanna see all the different setups to get in to them

[ZONG_one]

His damage is really bad to be honest.

[Mascarpone]

Idk watching characters (who aren't tager) in CS2 in general, carl's damage isn't significantly worse, just a little worse by comparison. Platnium? she has bad damage...

[soujiro seta]

Idk watching characters (who aren't tager) in CS2 in general, carl's damage isn't significantly worse, just a little worse by comparison. Platnium? she has bad damage...

You have to look at the character when it comes to comparing damage across the board. Zong is right, carls damage is very low. His reliance on nirvana for everything is the reason why his damage should be higher. How much damage he can deal is dependent on how much meter she has. You also have to factor in the fact that he needs her for zoning, defense, and pressure (everything). He also takes time to set up.

Why don't I just use jin/mak/noel/tsu/tao/lulzy ara/etc where all I do is simply run up and attack, and get 3k minimum off every hitconfirm. For free without reliance on anything. No need to approach slowly or worry about whether I'll have enough meter to defend/pressure/deal damage. Just run up and start my game. Heck even lambda is dealing more damage easier than carl. That's a bad sign.

The main problem he's having is that he is getting out damaged too easily by everyone. Why use him and go through all that work when you can do less work and attain more damage with a different character?

Also, plat's damage is actually really good. She can get 4k easy in the corner, and I'm not even talking about her loli install combos that the japanese haven't even used yet and will find out later.

[Akiro]

His low damage could be justified by the fact that he has alot of corner mixups.

Then again, that 3D combo he did against valk only did 1.5k-2k.

[soujiro seta]

His low damage could be justified by the fact that he has alot of corner mixups.

Then again, that 3D combo he did against valk only did 1.5k-2k.

His mixup has been weakened because nirvana dies faster. You can't pressure/mixup for long anymore like you could in CS1. So you have to hitconfirm quickly or she'll run out, unlike mak/jin/noel/etc who don't abide by this rule. With lower damage, you're also rewarded less too when you finally hit confirm. So she dies faster and you have lower damage.

Like I said why use him when you can use others and yield more reward for less? Don't forget mak/jin/noel/etc get to pressure for free. They don't need any meter for offense/defense/damage, and when they hitconfirm their damage is constant. In CS1 you can get 5.5k meterless off 3C/2D with carl, but nirvana has to have enough meter for you to deal that 5.5k. 5B from makoto will always yield 4k minimum, 6C from jin 5k (just tossing out number), etc.

So why use him and work for 1.5-2k when I can get around 2.8-3k MINIMUM off everything? If he got 1.5-2k easily then that wouldn't really be a problem, but to waste that much meter to get in and only get that much when you connect?

[Akira-Shiro]

ok iv been lookin around & found the J.B Chains into J.2c soo its a DMG increase for "Carl only combos"

Also corner combo Wall-O-C-N

5b>5C>cantabile>22D>5c>(super jumb)J.b>J.2c>J.B>D.Jc>brio(Wall bounce)>5c>J.b>J.c>3D 3.5k ........ 3D made the opponent stand by force ?.? Soooo possible follow up combo into DD thats a good 5K for 3-4 nirvana attacks.

I do believe they are making carl less reliant on Nirvana, I also saw someone do this tight combo on tager.. JB>J.2C(x3)>J.C>5B>3B>3C>Gear DD

Tagers big ass was in the way so i couldn't see the dmg on it, but it looked like a good 3-4k its hard to tell cause tager is the Hp king lol & Carls anti-Air beat tagers J.2C Clean,,,,, Solo carl is lookin pretty good

[ZONG_one]

speaking of j.B > j.2C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ODhmnFk41A#t=1m52s

I lol'd.

[Zoogstin]

Yeah I saw that as well. Unless Platinum has some weird hitbox, I guess carl can do that for everyone. I guess he still has jump loop mixups after all.

[Mascarpone]

Plat -dose- seem to have a very wide hit box because of those pig tails but who knows maybe it'll work on Valk/Jin/etc too. i feel like it won't work on ragna/tsubaki/arakune.

[Akira-Shiro]

From all the vids iv seen people keep doin 5b>3b>cantabile why not 5b>5c>cantabile..... O.O dont tell me 3b prorates better then 5c

[Lennysaurus]

So I've decided to start learning Carl. But holy crap his execution is hard. Are there any vids that show people's hands while they are playing? Because for some of the stuff, especially the teleport combos, or the stuff where you hold D and move her around while Carl is doing other stuff seems insane! Some insight to how I mix all the motions in together would be really helpful.

Also are there any tutorial vids? I tried google and search but came up with very little other than the stuff from the DVD that came with CT.

[Zoogstin]

No there are no hand videos. There are some videos on combos that you should learn. Believe me they're harder than the teleport combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQCUJRMYcg

[Mascarpone]

From all the vids iv seen people keep doin 5b>3b>cantabile why not 5b>5c>cantabile..... O.O dont tell me 3b prorates better then 5c

3B? .... 3C? 5C pushes them far away.

[Zoogstin]

I think he's talking about 6B

[ZONG_one]

Yeah I saw that as well. Unless Platinum has some weird hitbox, I guess carl can do that for everyone. I guess he still has jump loop mixups after all.

I've seen it on Tager as well.

I'll keep an eye out for smaller characters.

I think he's talking about 6B

Haha he is I'm pretty sure.

Also cantibile > 6B is being used instead of cantibile > 5C.

Weird.

I believe I saw CH j.C > cantibile too lol.

On a standing character, of course.

[Akira-Shiro]

I think he's talking about 6B

No no no........ in alot vids i see 5b>2b>cantabile ?.? wtf

[Zeero]

I think cantabile 6B is better for positioning for sjc jB j2C? maybe coz 5C puts them too far?

personally i'd like to try something like

5b 6b summon+cantabile hold 6D 6B hjc hold 9 jB jA jB dj jB jC and see if Nirvana makes it to the other side to do 3D and combo

[Lennysaurus]

No there are no hand videos. There are some videos on combos that you should learn. Believe me they're harder than the teleport combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQCUJRMYcg

Thanks man, found another vid by the same guy that shows alot of the situational stuff I should be doing I guess. The vids help to in that I start looking at when they are activating Ada for the combos as well. I'm finding that I have the hang of positioning and what not, just that I'm not scoring the damage etc when I get launchers or a sandwich started.

One more question if I may. When doing the teleport combo do I make sure I have D held down and then input 22 after the 3C, or should I do 2+A, 2+B+D, 3C, Alle~can etc? Or is there no real specific way of doing it?

[ioKain]

Thanks man, found another vid by the same guy that shows alot of the situational stuff I should be doing I guess. The vids help to in that I start looking at when they are activating Ada for the combos as well. I'm finding that I have the hang of positioning and what not, just that I'm not scoring the damage etc when I get launchers or a sandwich started.

One more question if I may. When doing the teleport combo do I make sure I have D held down and then input 22 after the 3C, or should I do 2+A, 2+B+D, 3C, Alle~can etc? Or is there no real specific way of doing it?

I think any way will work. I do 2A, 2B, 3C, 22]D[, myself. I have noticed there are times when I know I didn't input down twice after 3C on accident and I still get the summon. So I'm pretty sure your second suggestion should work. I just like to make sure though and always input 22 after 3C.

[BoogE-Man]

I think cantabile 6B is better for positioning for sjc jB j2C? maybe coz 5C puts them too far?

I would think that with j.2C's improved hitbox that it shouldn't matter too much. Cantabile > 6B looks cooler, so that's probably why they're doing it lol.

[FREAKACHU]

Wondering if one could help me, learning Carl clover and checked out the combos thread could someone explain to me what Allegreto and Alle~can are? What moves are they?

[Zoogstin]

Alegretto is carl's j.214C move. (the multi-stabby move in the air.) Alle~can is canceling Carl's j.2C after hitting an opponent (and you're close to the ground) into a j.214C. This way Carl lands on the ground with no recovery and not bounce off of the opponent.

[FREAKACHU]

Thanks so Alle~can is basically cancelling Alegretto of carls j.2C ? Thanks i need the notation to understand