[CS1] Litchi Changelog

[Diveman]

LITCHI FAYE LING: Final Changes

New move 6D[m]: First hit breaks primer, special cancellable. 2nd hit is not cancellable. Places staff in 5D set.

New move 4D[m]: Overhead, can be special cancelled on hit or block. Places staff in 2D set.

New move ItsuuD: After 426D, the stance can be cancelled with D.

Both hits of ItsuuB connects.

Staff Litchi gains 2A > 5B on standing opponents without needing CH.

IppatsuB is now falling Hatsu. Removes one primer, relatively safe on block.

IppatsuC is now falling Chun. Removes one primer, relatively safe on block.

6A[m] loses Manten return, now ground bounces on hit. Also has Fatal Counter properties.

Staffless 5C gains Fatal Counter properties.

ItsuuA, B and Tsubame Gaeshi are all 5D sets.

Daisharin is now 2D set.

3C[m] and 6C[m] both lose manten return, but both are special cancellable.

Daisharin startup is slower.

Ryuusiou startup is slower (though I wanna see frame data for this one )

Ryuuisou, Kokushi Musou, and the last hit of Daisharin all remove guard primer.

J2D[m] removes 1 Guard primer.

JD[m] causes knockdown on hit.

Staffless Litchi gains 5B > 2A.

Staffless Litchi gains JC > JB.

Untechable time on flying Mantenbou is increased (at least it looks that way!)

6Kote changes the set to 5D, 4Kote changes the set to 2D.

Staffless 6C is special cancellable on either hit.

Untechable time on Hatsu and Chun is increased (. . .probably)

Shishin is now 6 hits instead of 4.

Continuous update, if you find something thats not here, post it.

[Soothesayer]

All Green was one of the fastest moves in the game but did some of the lamest damage out of all the DDs...basically they took away what it had going for it most. But RC'able Tsubami = win. But so far meh changes. I was hoping for more personally.

[SIne]

I don't really like the changes that much but only time will tell if they are for the better or worse 5a to 5b link is pretty good so no need to dp out of pressure all the time but then on the horrible side no combo from DP so....wait normal hit only ? what about counter hit?

[Brent-quest]

clearly Litchi needed nerfs.

[SIne]

clearly...

[individuals]

no tsubame setup enders D:? no!!

[Jthan]

so if you cant tsubame in combos, wtf are you going to do in the corner?

EDIT: the more i think about this the less sense it makes. also this was posted in the main loketest thread:

5B>5C>ittsuuC(41236D~C)>TK chun/j7 chun/etc>2C>jc>JBCD>airdash>JC>land>6C>tsubame>6C>3C

this is actually her midscreen bnb from before continuum shift

that combo wouldn't be possible with these new changes.

one more thing. "JD causes slide down" <<<<<<what the fuck is this supposed to mean?? JD[m] or JD[e]? wtf does "causes slide down" mean?

[Chun]

All Green was one of the fastest moves in the game but did some of the lamest damage out of all the DDs...basically they took away what it had going for it most. But RC'able Tsubami = win. But so far meh changes. I was hoping for more personally.

The inability to combo after Tsubame just put Litchi down a tier. Most of the pressure and such required the use of OTG pickup into more hits. I don't like it at all; RC Tsubame means nearly nothing for general combination options (People shouldn't be blindly Tsubame-ing anyway, why use a good 50 meter otherwise).

Also, All Green was a great DD by following up after the wallbounce, an easy meaty/charge/airdash punisher; easily 3kable with some execution requirements. It's easily one of the best DDs in the game if you know how to use it.

I am frankly not hype about these changes.

~Chun

[STenSatsu]

Ya, it's weird that the itsuu bnb would still work given the changes said. For j.d, I want to say slide down means it'll be like j.2d and take us with it. Could be fun if that is the case. They haven't said how much they slowed down all green, so that could be very minor since it is ridiculously fast atm. Will be interesting to see the new combos since 4d and 6d sound like they are an actual attack while setting, like the jump sets. RCable dp will be huge for getting out of pressure strings, especially since you'll likely be able to get a blockstring of your own going. Being able to combo off 2a with staff when they aren't CH/crouching will be hot too, especially for IB->5a/2a. Really gonna have to wait and see how her combos shake out with the dp change and new staffsets before I can get excited though. How her combos change will be the biggest factor. I also wouldn't be surprised to see riichi combos get nerfed damage-wise given the damage hits other people have been taking. Though if they make her game less corner-centric with the combo changes, it may not be an issue. The biggest thing I'm excited about is how 4d,6d, and j.d end up. More emphasis on setting staff with an attack could open up a lot of fun during combos/blockstrings.

[Diveman]

Yeah I was like"...uh?? really???" with those Tsubame changes. Whats the point on nerfing a character that wasnt top anyways. I REALLY hope they give her something to compensate the loss of tsubame combos and another new move and not just new staff set options. I wouldnt mind better properties to some of her old moves (like bigger hitbox riichi attacks)

[geist]

Ya, it's weird that the itsuu bnb would still work given the changes said.

For j.d, I want to say slide down means it'll be like j.2d and take us with it. Could be fun if that is the case. They haven't said how much they slowed down all green, so that could be very minor since it is ridiculously fast atm. Will be interesting to see the new combos since 4d and 6d sound like they are an actual attack while setting, like the jump sets. RCable dp will be huge for getting out of pressure strings, especially since you'll likely be able to get a blockstring of your own going. Being able to combo off 2a with staff when they aren't CH/crouching will be hot too, especially for IB->5a/2a.

Really gonna have to wait and see how her combos shake out with the dp change and new staffsets before I can get excited though. How her combos change will be the biggest factor. I also wouldn't be surprised to see riichi combos get nerfed damage-wise given the damage hits other people have been taking. Though if they make her game less corner-centric with the combo changes, it may not be an issue.

The biggest thing I'm excited about is how 4d,6d, and j.d end up. More emphasis on setting staff with an attack could open up a lot of fun during combos/blockstrings.

the first thing I thought about when it said j.D causes slide down was the staff taking the opponent with them causing a ground slide after....meaning we'll have a proper ender after [M]j.BC JC j.BC...depending on how this works...we might be able to j.D then continue combo...or at least they'll be on the ground with staff in their face

[Kenshuma]

+ DP is now RCable

YES!

- easier to tech after DP hits, cannot end the combo with DP setup

- cannot do the combo after DP normal hit

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!?

[Diveman]

Tsubame info updated, now does more blockstun (harder to punish??) but scales more (I guess in case you RC it and go for a combo)

[Dakanya]

although the midscreen bnb still works despite the changes to tsubame, it may possible that this will wreck litchi's current corner combo ends that involve tsubame gaeshi from what i've heard, litchi should be able to combo off tsubame gaeshi if it is off a counter hit. RCable tsubame gaeshi is great and it's something i've been looking forward to since forever 'cause it was really stupid how everyone who had a dp and meter could diss people without risk on block except litchi mantenbou 2A linking to 5B gives litchi more free damage

[Lord Knight]

Litchi changes are overall good to me. Tsubame nerf is whatever but at least you can RC. New moves are always a good thing (as long as they aren't trash). Ryuuisou shouldn't have been nerfed, I'm a bit upset about that. If JD is also dive, that'd be hyyyyyyyyype.

[Zenmetsu]

I'm excited about all the changes they are making to Litchi. They make sense. 2A/5A linking to 5B while staffed is a godsend. Currently Litchi's entire neutral staff game is 5B/6B/j.C and it gets kinda stale. This also opens up ways for Litchi to pressure with staff that doesn't involve risky 6B feints or jump canceling her 5B on block. Now if her 5A is JCable (even if it's only when she's staffless) we can start playing a semi-competent AA game. I've always said that her DP needed to be RCable and they're now making it feasible. It almost seemed like it was a programming oversight in CT how it wasn't RCable. Another wishlist is making Ittsu RCable. 8D Also, I don't really care that you can't do combos after normal DP hit. Seems like a fair nerf considering how everybody (except Hakumen/Tager) is getting some sort of damage nerf bat. It's not to say that new combos with favorable staff setups won't be found either.

[Jthan]

I disagree with most of you guys, I think being able to combo into tsubame is well worth not being able to cancel it. If you can't combo it than Litchi's corner game is almost totally destroyed. The whole point of her corner game is that when the opponent is waking up, the stick is set on the ground>>this is what leads to her million option wake up game tsubame 6c 3c tsubame D tsubame stickman tsubame j.C D tsubame shishin almost all of those can include a 6c or 6c>3c after between tsubame and whatever you choose. giving up all this just so you can burn meter to make an uppercut safe? why not just go without guessing uppercuts? or holy shit why not use 2a to break out of pressure, seeing as how it combos now. I don't understand why Litchi's damage needed to be nerfed. I always thought her damage in CT was actually well balenced, and it was most of the other characters that had OP damage (nu, jin, arakune). If you're staffless in the corner, and you get a mixup, say 6a or 2b, your corner bnb from that does about 2.6-2.9k. Even if you're going for max damage riichi combos, you end up with 3.5-3.8. I'd say perhaps tone down the riichi damage, but that's it. So far I do not like these changes, save the 2a/5a > 5b EDIT: Wait, now tsubame does MORE blockstun but is easier to tech out of on hit?

[Brent-quest]

I agree, I think they went the wrong way entirely with Tsubame. I thought it should have been made easier to punish and keep combo ability. RC'ing it is NOT a good trade off. Seems like her new game would have to revolve greatly around the new 6D and 4D moves for oki setups (if they are any good?) At the end of a normal B&B where you would normally tsubame you'd end up with the stick in your hands and them on the ground from a 6C most likely.

[Soothesayer]

What they might be trying to do is probably get Litchi players to not rely on corner rape so much. I can kind of see why they would do this, since her corner game is pretty ridiculous...in fact, aren't they doing something similar with Jin and Rachel(and hopefully arakune), who also had some nasty corner options? I think arc realized how deadly corner rape is in Calamity trigger and is trying to tone that down in CS, forcing players to rely more on other tactics. Can't say I blame them for that...it's kind of lame when a fight comes down to a race to see which player can get the other in a corner first.

[Zuji]

Oh god Litchi what have they done to you? *weeps*

[Jthan]

I don't see why I wouldn't rely situations where my character is the strongest. Where rachel, arakune, and jin had good corner games, they were great characters out of the corner, where litchi is decent at best outside the corner, she doesn't have much more than good pokes and a slow mix up, and if you try to space correctly to use those good pokes you get negative penalty.

[Brent-quest]

Corner rape? Her pressure was mediocre at best and slightly better with tension, most of it was escapable. She was the 4th worst character in the game as of latest tier lists. While the 3 below her get huge buffs she seems to be getting the short end of the stick. I thought she was a fine character overall and I suppose it's definitely too early to tell, but she definitely needs something to compensate for the one part of her game that was pretty strong. I guess the developers REALLY hate oki to get rid of the few strong instances left of it in BB.

[Diveman]

Corner rape? Her pressure was mediocre at best and slightly better with tension, most of it was escapable. She was the 4th worst character in the game as of latest tier lists. While the 3 below her get huge buffs she seems to be getting the short end of the stick. I thought she was a fine character overall and I suppose it's definitely too early to tell, but she definitely needs something to compensate for the one part of her game that was pretty strong. I guess the developers REALLY hate oki to get rid of the few strong instances left of it in BB.

Litchi strongest point was on the corner and EVEN there she wasnt that great. The worst thing is when you´re staffless and you land a combo but the staff is too far away and you´re forced to make a lame combo for lame damage, they really need to give her more stafless moves or at least make the ones she has better

[Jthan]

Her pressure was mediocre at best and slightly better with tension, most of it was escapable.

This is key, for every wake up option you have, there's a way out, and if they guess wrong they just have to block a mix up, its not free damage, unless they techroll.

[Naters]

I really don't know what litchi is gonna do with these changes to tsubame. I really hope they bring news of new moves or something to help.