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DaiDensetsu

Venom's library of ball formations

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Hello everyone,

I'm writing a new topic about ball sets and formations hoping to help any venom player or anyone trying venom. I post a new topic because the purpose of this one is not neccesarily practical but its theoretical with some application. The aim is finding actions after setting certain balls. Actually many players will be limited to one or two balls and get discouraged trying new variations. Here, I'll try to cover each set and subset of formations.

The main problem for the venom player after setting is taking time to decide what to do with this ball. With this library or guide I'll try to give ideas how to use each ball so you it will be easier to use and of course to have fun.

Notes:

1- The possibilites are countless, I can't cover everthing but I'll try to list some uses so you get an idea about the usage.

2- As I mentioned above, not everything is practical and actually its theoretical. The goal is to cover every possibilty whether being practical or not.

3- You will find ball locations and how to hit or manipulate them. Nothing too technical and everything is abstract as possible.

4- You can use your own ideas, there is no limit to your innovation.

5- I'll use certain symbols to describe the set of balls and you can always return to the notations.

 

Notation:

{X} - a full formation set of X ball
X - Only X ball generated
A:X or A,B:X - a subset of {X} including the X ball.
A/X or A,B/X or A,B,C/X - a subset of {X} excluding the X ball.

Immediate: Immediate action after set.

Delayed: Action after delay (stopping, dashing ...etc).

SA: Stinger Aim

CR: Carcass Raid

DHM: Double Head Morbid

MS: Mad struggle

 

 

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General concepts:

I'm introducing new words or ideas to help. (some are already used practically but I'll describe so it should be clear to everyone).

1- Partitioning:

This is used by everyone. You just deal with different balls/set of balls seperately. For example if you generate P:K , you can deal with P/K then K.
( example: 5k to hit P/K then forward j.k to hit K). Just note the partitioning meaning having some delay between hits, If the hits are in a sequence without delay I'll list them as a set/subset action.

2- Collisions:

When the balls collide with each other, the directions change. Everyone knows this but you must keep in your mind whether you want to collide or not. Collisions and non-collisions has different actions to make them happen.

3- Swapping:

The last ball generated decides the formation used. If you generate P ball, no matter what balls are on the screen, you'll get the P formation. However, the balls available will move to new locations. This may lead to interesting results such as collisions or better ball positioning. So Basically you are going to swap the formations when you generate balls, keep in your mind what balls you have and how they will move and  that will be a great tool for you.

4- Repeating:

If you have certain balls and generate the same ball as last, the balls will move to your new location if you move. One interesting example is K:P to demonstrate how to use this, After hitting P immediately with 5p, you can generate P ball again after moving and the K/P will move alongside you to your new location.

5- Starting:

The balls will start at certain positions (Set or QV), after that it will move to the position of the formation. You can hit the ball at the starting positions, while moving to its postion or after stopping at its position.

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P Formation: "Hit formation"

263px-Ggxrd_venom_pformation.png

So this one looks like a foot towards you and the tip being the P ball itself. If you want an easy method, whenever you end with P, just tap 5p and see some balls in action.

1- P:

P.png

The most generated ball. It has variety of heights/speeds when hit. You can use  it for almost anything from zoning to pressure and setups.

Immediate:

5p,5hs,5d for different moving heights/speeds. 6p,2hs for anti-air.

Delayed:

After dashing you will get a lower heighted ball. Without dashing you have all the previous options with the addition of 5k.

When it reach the final position, you can hit with 2p,2s also.

DHM: will send the ball vertically.

QV: Ball will start with almost the same position. Hit with 5p,2p,2s for combos.

MS: will make motion similar to CR.

CR: Both S and HS will place the black balls near you.

RC: I find immediate 5p yrc interesting. You can dash with the ball then generate one or two balls to make them collide.

 

2- K:P

KP.png

 

At starting position you will get high and low balls. After reaching the position you will get two low balls. Good for covering different heights on the ground

Immediate:

5p>dash>2p

5p>2s

2s>2s

Delayed:

Dashing then 5hs or 5d for no collisions.

2s for no collisions.

5p,2p,5k,5hs for low collision

3- K/P:

K.png

You can partition this by immediately hitting P ball. The remaining ball will be in a low position which may be useful to cover the low level of ground. You can hit it with 2d and S CR (without moving) will generate a low black ball.

 

4- S:P

SP.png

Long story short, usually you will get mide-range collision. Good if you have some space because it will collide later.

Immediate:

5s>5p and 5p>5s for no collisions

5p,5hs,5d for high collisions

Delayed:

Dash and hit and both balls will at the same time without collision.

Without moving, you will get low collisions by hitting.

Special:

Immediatly hit with 5p then dash with the balls and generate 3rd ball and it will collide.

 

5 - S/P :

S.png

You exclude the P by immediately hitting 6p or 2hs. Nothing much for this ball I think  but you  can get an extremely low black ball by S CR and you can forward jump attack it or hit it by 5S, 6HS.

6 - HS:P

HSP.png

This one might be good for covering the air.

Immediate: 5p , 5hs for normal collision. 6p will cover both high and air. 2hs will cover ground and air. 6HS is cool to do and will cover a large area.

Delayed: Dash 2HS will send both balls forward in the air while 2Hs will cover the mid ground and air.

 

7- HS/P:

HS.png


A fantastic ball location if you are going to move a little to hit. Hit after moving forward (6p,2hs,6hs) , by dash then jumping (any normal) or by IAD (any normal). You can extract this ball by hitting the P ball  by a delayed 5p.

 

8- S,K:P

SKP.png

 

Generally, you get one ball more to make low collision. Immediately hit with 5p to get K/P or hit 5p then generate any ball except P to make high collision with 3 balls.

9- S,K/P :

SK.png

You can get this partition by hitting the P ball by 6p immediately. Dash>5HS, or dash>5D to hit them together or forward jump hit (j.d will make cool motion)

 

10 - HS,K: P

HSKP.png

You can immediately hit the HS:P partition to get K/P or generate S ball after hit to make higher 3-ball collision.

If you wait the P ball to reach its position, you can get a lower 3-ball collision with a variety of normals like 2p, 2hs.

 

11 - HS,K/P

HSK.png

Now this is a funny (impractical) one. You can extract it by hitting the P ball with DHM or making it go between the other two balls (a mini-game lol). You can use both balls seperately or hit them with forward j.p>2p. 6HS is almost always an option if you want to hit.

 

12 - HS,S:P

SHSP.png

Superior if you want to ensure a 3-ball collision and you can generate any ball after hitting 5p. Hitting them with SA or CR is cool to see.

 

13- HS,S/P :

SHS.png

You get this by DHM or neutral j.k. Probably same as HS/P but with one more ball. S CR will give a very low ball .

 

14- K,S,HS/P:

KSHS.png
You can only get this by DHM. To hit them together you have to do 6HS, MS or walking little then neutral j.d or j.hs.

 

15- {P}:

If you hit early you will miss the K/P ball. But when you hit later by many options you will get the 4 balls all in actions. You can generate any ball after hitting. Of course  you can partition the balls and use previous subsets.

 

 

And thats it for the P formation, Next formations will come later.

Note: When I say you can generate after hitting, it means the balls will move and collide and won't disappear.

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K formation: "Box formation"

263px-Ggxrd_venom_kformation.png


So in this formation balls get near each other and form a rhombus. Your main hitting method after chosing this formation is either 6p or forward j.k.
Very useful in many aspects and mainly for setups and anti-air. QV has its applications also.

1- K

K.png
unreachable by most standing normals. Useful as anti-air and your main setup ball. The ball will move to its location in very short time so there is no point in delaying the hit unless inside certain setups.

Immediate:
6p, 2hs for anti-air.
any forward jumping normal to cover some air-to-ground or doing pressure/setups (mainly j.k).
neutral j.p and j.hs will hit the ball also and I think the j.p is good to cover some aerial space. Note that after hitting in the air, you can air-dash after the hit following the ball so it will add to your offence.

CR: H CR will make a low black ball.

QV: Hitting with K QV will give you little time to delay hits. Its great as a combo component. KQV hit>[5p]>6p>6HS. Note that 5p is required sometimes to make the combo work as the ball is still moving upwards.
You can create a collision by P ball set>5p>yrc>dash>KQV.

RC: After hitting the ball by a jumping normal you can yrc instead of waiting and you get a little more time to dash or do anything else. I think this is great move that let you have more control.


2- P:K

PK.png


Used very much because of its strength, it gives you both aerial ball and a ball that cover the ground. A nice 2-ball collision will happen if you hit 5p then generate P or HS balls. You can hit with 5p>dash>generate HS ball for 3-ball collision also. 5p>QV is a 3-ball collision also


Immediate:
6p, 2hs for anti-air
5p>j.p
j.p>j.d
j.Hs
j.d
5p>6p
5p>forward jumping normal

Delayed:
you can forward jump attack>back airdash>jump attack to hit them seperately (example: forward j.p>back airdash>j.p)
and you can forward jump>back airdash>jumping attack to hit them together (example: forward jump> back airdash>j.p)
Note that generally you can use high jump to get easier timing in some situations.

DHM: will send two vertical balls.

MS: Is the same as always but note the ease of use in this subset.

3- P/K

P.png

You can get this by j.p the K ball.
You get a closer and higher ball than the regular P ball. So generally its hittable by the same normals that hit the P ball immediately with the addition of neutral jumping normals.
This will collide with QVs you generate after hitting with 5p because its very close to you. You can alternatively dash and generate after hitting 5p to make collisions.

SA: Because of being closer, SA will give you closer black balls which is very useful.

CR: The HS will give you a very high aerial black ball.


4- S:K

SK.png


This will generate a little far additional ball that will go with almost any hit for the K ball. Hittable only by what hits the K ball if you don't move, so I'll list the notable ones.

Immediate:
6p and 2hs great anti-air sending two balls diagonally
forward j.p>any jumping normal

Delayed:
Walk/Dash>5p>neutral jumping normal

5- S/K

S.png


You can get this by j.p the K ball
You get the same ball as P/K but being far. Hit it with what hits the K ball or do CR to get a low black ball. You can also close the range by walking/dashing and deal with it the same way as a P/K ball.

6- HS:K

HSK.png

 

You get two balls on the same height. You can deal with it as a K ball and most things will hit the HS ball but the results are different from the S/K ball.

Immediate:
j.p for aerial 2-ball collision
forward j.k>neutral double jump>j.p
forward j.k>forward double jump>j.k or any jumping normal
You can wait and jump a second jump if you have a problem with timing but it will take longer time to hit the second ball.

Delayed:
forward jump>delay>j.p to hit them together
Dash>jump>j.p>air backdash>j.p
Forward High jump>j.D is cool

7- HS/K

HS.png


You can get this by j.Hs the K ball.
The same as K ball but being far. Hit with S CR for a low black ball or close the range and deal with it as a K ball. Airdash>jumping normals is great

8- S,P:K

SPK.png


Just additional balls if we talk about how to hit. But easy for partition and the parts will be useful. For collisions generate HS or P ball after hitting 5p for 3-ball collision. Do any QV except SQV after 5p to get 4-ball collisions.

9- S,P/K

SP.png


You can get this by j.p the K ball.
Clearly a 2-ball collision but you can dash and hit to make them move together. 6p is good ant-air.

 

10- HS,P:K

HSPK.png


Not much different from S,P:K but will give different paths/collisions. You can only generate P ball after hitting 5p to get the 3-ball collision. PQV or KQV for 3 or 4-ball collision depending on timing/spacing.

11- HS,P/K

HSP.png


You can get this by  neutral j.hs (at specific time) or forward j.s
Nothing special or new. You can deal with them seperately.

 

12- HS,S:K

HSSK.png


You either deal with it as a K ball or dash/walk to deal with S/K ball. After getting closer to S/K, you can hit 5p and make collisions like previous ones.

13- HS,S/K
Almost impossible to get(impractical but covering it theoretically), you have to go backward/backash>DHM to remove the K ball but what you get is only a far version of P:K

14- HS,S,P/K
Impossible to get with nothing special

15- {K}
You can hit with variety of normals or simply deal with it as a K ball.

j.p>5p for both high and low collision
forawrd j.d covering the screen
2hs anti-air that cover vertical space

 


Note:
collisions after QV has an alternative: Dash>generating ball instead of the QV.
Also there is an interesting move of YRC dashing after hitting the generated balls, generate more balls and you may get a big number of balls colliding specially if you YRC a 3 or 4 ball collision.

 

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S Formation: "The diamond formation"

263px-Ggxrd_venom_sformation.png


Defensive formation. You may have to go backward to hit the S ball and the hitting options are limited but the other balls locations are good.
If you have some far balls generated or you don't know what to do with them, just generate S ball to make them near you.
This formations has the most QV applications because the SQV can be followed by 5p to hit the generated ball. Your position on the screen may affect the results, if the screen sidelines are behind you, you might not hit the balls.

1-S:

S.png


You have limited options to hit this ball and most of them are forcing you to go backward. You can double backdash or back airdash then deal with it as a K ball.

Immediate:
neutral j.S or neutral j.d
jump backward or back IAD > jumping normal

QV:
QV will genrate a ball that will get very close to you while moving to its position and you can hit it with 5p only but this leads to many interesting stuff in many areas like combos or collisions.

SQV>5p>HSQV for 2-ball collision

Because the ball is very close to you, when you hit 5p you can do:
SQV>5p>dash>genrate one or more balls to make them collide


2- P:S

PS.png


You can hit them both using the same as what hits the S ball except j.k and j.p.
If you want to hit them seperately: jump backward j.k>airdash>j.k


3- P/S

P.png


You can neglect the S ball and deal with the P/S seperately. Hittable by 5p,5s,6hs. You can get closer and deal with it as a P ball.

DHM: will send the ball slightly diagonally depending on the position/timing.

CR: S CR will give a low black ball.

 

4- K:S

KS.png


An additinal ball to hit with. Not much options to hit but j.s and j.d are great. Back IAD>j.p or j.d for collisions


QV:

You can make 3-ball collisions by this:
Generate K ball>SQV>5p>Generating P or HS ball


5- K/S:

K.png

Negelct the S ball, you can hit it by any jumping normal and the HS CR will give you a high black ball.

 

6- HS:S

HSS.png


Limited options again to hit both balls. Jumping backward normals and neutral j.d to hit them both or you can j.s>2p or j.s>2s
Good for pressure if you seperate the balls.

7- HS/S:

HS.png


A very useful ball. You can hit it by most of jumping/standing/crouching normals.

SA: will give close black balls.

CR: S CR will give a black ball in the same location of the S ball. HS CR will give a black ball at higher height than venom's shoulders but still hittable by 5p, 5d.

 

8- K,P:S

KPS.png

Just hit it with what hits K:S if you to make a 3-ball collision.

 

9- K,P/S

KP.png


You can neglect the S ball or do SQV>5p to get this

j.k, j.hs or j.d if you want to hit them both

for seperate hits:
j.p or j.s > ground attack that hits P/S
Dash/walk> hit P/S>jump bakward or air backdash>jumping normal

10- HS,P:S
Deal with it the same way as HS:S if you want to hit them all. Otherwise, nothing new but only additional ball and HS,P/S

 

11- HS,P/S

HSP.png


Neglect the S ball, you get a low collision similar to K:P. The same applies here, hit directly for collision or dash>hit for no collision.

12- HS,K:S
Same as 10

 

13- HS,K/S

HSK.png


Nothing much, if you want to hit them together, do neutral jump j.h or j.d. You can hit them in a sequence of jumping attack>ground attack or vice versa
Generally its useful because you have a high ball in the air and a low ball at the same time.

14- HS,K,P/S

HSKP.png


j.hs to hit them all. Otherwise, partitioning will  make it useful.

15- {S}
To hit them all, you must hit with what hit both balls in HS:S

Note:
You may not have many options here, but partitioning is strong and the SQV either can give you a ball in action while bringing the other balls near you or make some collisions.

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HS Formation: "Far formation":

263px-Ggxrd_venom_hformation.png


This formation is offensive and mostly need some movement to hit the balls. Great for telepoting, airdashing and other forms of forward movements.

1-HS

HS.png

 

A great ball for offense. Just move to hit and start your action.

Immediate:
6p, 2hs for anti-air
6hs

Delayed:
6hs
5s
dash>5p,5k,5hs,5d,2hs
forward jumping or high jumping j.hs
forward high jumping j.k
dash>forward jump j.s

SA: S SA will make it near you while HS SA will make it faraway which is useful for teleporting.

CR: S CR will give you a low ball.

 

2-P:HS

PHS.png

Aerial ball that adds many possibilites for hitting HS

Immediate:
6p,2hs for anti-air

Delayed:
dash>6hs
forward jumping j.hs
airdash>j.k, j.s or j.hs
forward high jumping j.k or j.hs
dash>ground normal>jump>jump normal
dash>forward jump>j.p or j.k>air backdash>jumping normal

 

3-P/HS

P.png


To get this, hit the HS ball with 5s.
Similar to what you do for P:HS. S CR will give a little far black ball.


4- K:HS

KHS.png


Those two balls are very far. Great for teleports but not much options to hit them together. To hit them both, dash then forward jump or forward high jump. I'll add the new notable ones.

Immediate:
5s>5s

Delayed:
dash>neutral jump j.hs
dash>5p>2s
dash>6hs

 

5- K/HS:

K.png


To get this, hit the HS ball with 5s.

Dash>2s
Dash>6hs
IAD>j.s or j.d
Dash>forward jump>jumping normal

6- S:HS

SHS.png


Known for zoning and it has other possibilities as well.

Immediate:
5p
6p
2hs

Delayed:
5p for lower collision
dash>5p,5d to send them together


7- S/HS

S.png


This ball is hittable by 5p and 6p. You can move or jump to hit it also.
HS CR will give slightly low black ball. If you walk backward a bit, S CR will give a very low black ball

 

8- K,P:HS
Same as P:HS generally.
Dash>5p>j.p>2s is an example of hitting the ball in a sequence

 

9- K,P/HS
Hitting the P/HS with j.hs and j.d will hit the other ball. Deal with each ball seperately for more uses.

 

10- S,P:HS

SPHS.png


Good for easy 3-ball collisions. Immediately hit with 5p,6p,2hs for collisions
Other ways to hit:
forward j.hs
high jump forward j.d

 

11- S,P/HS
deal with it the same way as K formation partitions.

 

12- S,K:HS

SKHS.png


another direct 3-ball collision but limited to 5p. Other ways to hit are similar to 10

 

13- S,K/HS
j.s and j.d to hit

 

14- S,K,P/HS
same as the previous ones but with more balls

15- {HS}
Hit with 5p directly so you don't miss the upper ball and get 4-ball collision. The other best way to hit them all is to neutral jump j.hs

 

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I hope this will be useful and I know some are just on paper possibilites or impractical but I tried to cover as much as possible to give insight about what you can do. Sorry if there is some language mistakes or if there are unclear explanations. You can add anything here and ask as well. PLease note that I tried to cover what to do with the balls and what you get as a result, when and how to use is up to you.

Anyone can use this as reference to what actions can be done and if they want to add ball actions to their repertoire.

For new players I suggest learning in the following order:

1- One ball (Formation ball)

2- Two balls subsets.

3- One ball partitions (Non-formation balls)

4- Three and four balls subsets

5- Two and three balls partitions (not necessary if you look for very practical usage)

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I am still a Venom noob by all accounts, but what's the fastest way to set up some Black charged balls in to Bishop Runout without being pressured?

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It is not necessary to get black balls to enhance BRO. Regular balls can enhance it. The fastest way for that is just set then BRO. 

If you want the fastest way to get a black ball: 

Set > CR or SA

QV > CR or SA

Holding 2 ball then releasing is easier to charge but slightly slower 

YRCing can give a lot of black ball possibilities 

But because you want black ball into BRO. I'll say just a regular set or QV then CR or SA 

However, the opponents pressure is situational and matchup dependent. You don't need to directly make a sequence. You can move or wait then complete 

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