Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

DaiDensetsu

Froom noob to pro: a mini-guide

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone, I don't know if this is the proper location because this is general for FGs. Maybe obvious things but I hope it helps.

There is always a gap (usually big) between noobs and pros in FGs. However, the gap can be minimized and actually it remains bigger than what it should be because of many aspects but we will focus here on the abstract ones that everyone can acheive. Stuff like training, some game specifics, muscle memory and practical aspects will not be included.
Instead of what everyone tells you and the "get good" or whatever they say, I'll try to tell you how to improve yourself by having some abstract understanding. Instead of giving you a tremendous amount of  technical "parts" like frame data, I'll try to give a whole image. Some of what I'll say will look obvious but its important to know.
Please also note, this may helps everyone not only noobs.


1 - What is the game?
Usually, you have two characters fighting each others and your goal is usually to reduce your opponent HP to zero. You will have a specific time limit for rounds or matches and a certain space to move within it.
You have specific tools "Attacks" that has a certain space(usually called hitbox) to achieve that and you have defensive options to stop your opponent's attempts. To reduce your opponent health, you must hit them with your attacks.

So here what we have:
* Time limit
* Stage or Arena space
* Two characters (or more) which occupies a space within the stage
* Attacks that hit the opponent to reduce damage (by making the hitbox contacts with the opponent)

Why I'm saying this when its very obvious?
Because many new players don't know whats happening. They just press buttons and don't know what to do. Stay calm and try to hit your opponent. When a new player whiffs random normals without looking at his opponent, this is a big mistake that can be avoided from the beginning and will give a big improvement. Mental preparation is always a good thing. If your opponent is in the air, hit them with anti-air ....etc

 


2 - The whole technical image:
They always tell you this frame and that pixel but they don't tell you the whole image and that may confuse you or make your play looks strange somehow, you are doing whatever you want then in specific situations, you are hunting those details like frames.
If you keep in your mind that those details are always there you may improve (mid-level and high level specially).
So for beginners: You have Time limit, lets say 60 seconds and if your game is 60fps then you have 3600 frames per round. You are going to fill those frames or lets say "time intervals" with your actions (moving, attacking..etc)

Imagine it as a video and in the following we use SF Ryu as an example:

Time.png
and of course the space is also there, so we have two interrelated aspects which are time and space (Frames and pixels).

Why I'm saying this?
Because most people tend to think about technical details for specific situations while its much deeper than that and its actually for the whole match. Of course you can approximate because its almost impossible for a human to play a frame/pixel perfect game. However, you can create well-timed scenarios with correct timing and spacing without them being setups, combos or other common things.
For begginers: The importance of this will come in the next points.


3 - Humans vs machines
Fighting games can be dull for machines, when the machines block everything, attack at exact ranges and can do impossible things (Like a complicated motion in one frame). But for humans, its different, you will have errors and you will not block everything so thats why FGs is more about human errors. Mixups for example will work on humans but will not work on a strong AI.

Why I'm saying this?
To know what to learn or avoid when you play against a cpu and when you play against a human. Many things also like tier-lists are debatable because of this concept. Machines(On-paper) will give you very different tier-list than Humans(which is practically variable also)


4- The new players and pressing buttons:
New players usually are in two categories, the ones who mash as much as possible and the ones who hardly press any button. The first one thinks he will land attacks all the time and the second one don't know when to press.
If we tell those two players about frames and intervals we may have two better players using normals at better times.

So If we say: Move X has 30 frames. Usually the players will have a gap after inputting Move X like in the following scenarios:
* New player not pressing anything: Move X(30 Frames)-> Gap(200 Frames) ->Move Y
* New player mashing: Move X(30 Frames) -> Gap (Variable but can be very hight) -> Move Y
* Good mid-player: Move X(30 Frames) -> Gap(20 Frames) -> Move Y
* But if the player knows the correct timing: Move X(30 Frames) -> Gap(0~2 Frames) -> Move Y

Notice the difference and how you properly "Fill the gap".

Examples:
*Ryu cr.mp(whiffs)->Gap(0~2)->cr.mp
*Ryu cr.mp(whiffs)->Gap(0~2)->cr.mk->Gap(0~2)->Hadouken
*Ryu st.lp(whiffs)->Gap(0~2)->st.mp(whiffs)->Gap(0~2)->Shoryuken

Notice how more scary the new player will be if he knew when to press buttons and making true sequences by filling the gaps.


Why I'm saying this?
Note than you can delay your hits on purpose. Generally, for a beginner or even a higher players, if they knew they could hit directly after certain intervals(and of course despite the visuals sometimes and according to frame data), they will do more stuff and can be much more stronger.
As we said before, its like a video and you are filling it with your actions. You have for example 3600 frames for actions, why not utilize as much as possible of them?


5- Forming blocks/strings:
Usually after hitting the opponent in some games, you can do special additions like cancelling or chaining, whatever it is, you make a big block of actions together instead of one. However, the timing will be different than whiffing and you may be at disadvantage sometimes.
 New players usually don't know about difference between intervals in whiffing/hitting scenarios and what to do next.

 

6- Know your options and what you can do next:
You did something and you can do many things after that as sequence. Keep every option in your mind.

This is an example of some of ryu possible sequences (Actually there are many many options to do). Sequences are not limited to any number, you whiff for example 10 moves and you can add the 11:

sequence.png


You have many options available and if you keep in your mind the different possibilites, you can deal with a variety of situations and can be unpredictable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never heard of anyone talking about total time in frames and it makes some of your explanations way harder sounding than they actually are, which is why frame information should be limited to single specific situations (like frame advantages, punishes and whiff recoveries of certain moves). Also, most of your frame talk is about links which are nowhere that important in games with gatling systems (GG, BB, etc. what this whole forum is all about) and you didn't explain the basic concepts of blockstrings (eg. hitconfirms, frametraps), not to mention all your talk about linking whiffed moves which sounds like something players should aim for while in reality it serves absolutely no purpose unless you were actually talking about "hit on block", but in that case you should have used the right term for it since practically everywhere whiffing means "to not hit at all"; being forced to go through full recovery, usually without any cancel options (PRC being a major exception in Xrd).

In general, new players would be much better off playing the tutorial modes of ASW games (especially the ones in Revelator) and watching Guilty Gear Crash Course (which can be mostly applied to all airdashers) than trying to make sense of your short cryptic explanations. I hope you don't take this personally, but you should leave the act of teaching to people who are actually good at it (and I don't mean pedagogic students or anything; being able to convey important and correct information in compact and down-to-earth manner is enough).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Penguinator said:

I have never heard of anyone talking about total time in frames and it makes some of your explanations way harder sounding than they actually are, which is why frame information should be limited to single specific situations (like frame advantages, punishes and whiff recoveries of certain moves). Also, most of your frame talk is about links which are nowhere that important in games with gatling systems (GG, BB, etc. what this whole forum is all about) and you didn't explain the basic concepts of blockstrings (eg. hitconfirms, frametraps), not to mention all your talk about linking whiffed moves which sounds like something players should aim for while in reality it serves absolutely no purpose unless you were actually talking about "hit on block", but in that case you should have used the right term for it since practically everywhere whiffing means "to not hit at all"; being forced to go through full recovery, usually without any cancel options (PRC being a major exception in Xrd).

In general, new players would be much better off playing the tutorial modes of ASW games (especially the ones in Revelator) and watching Guilty Gear Crash Course (which can be mostly applied to all airdashers) than trying to make sense of your short cryptic explanations. I hope you don't take this personally, but you should leave the act of teaching to people who are actually good at it (and I don't mean pedagogic students or anything; being able to convey important and correct information in compact and down-to-earth manner is enough).

I never talked about links in this topic. I'm covering different topic which you clearly didn't understand. I'm talking about fighting games in general and never about specific sub-genre and in an abstract sense. If someone don't know the interval of a normal, he will miss an opportunity and thats a part of what seperates a good player from a new one. This may look obvious to you but for new people its not. 

And you don't have to say stop the act becsuse im not acting and I'm not teaching the good people here. Im just writing some info. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×