Central Fiction Story Discussion

[relic.nt]

On 10/6/2016 at 10:22 PM, Luminos564 said:

That...can't be healthy.  Anyone got the skinny on why Hazama has a gaping hole in his chest?

Also, Amane was right to be worried about the corruption happening on Ragna's body in Act 3. By the time Ragna finally disposed of Terumi and has said his goodbyes THIS is what he looks like. Notable in that this was not present when he had that last hug with Jin and Noel. 

Fun fact: Terumi's final parting words to Ragna are "Suffer unto eternity...Ragna the Bloodedge" (romanji: eien ni kurushime) and one last cackle. I find this to be so damn appropriate for the character.

The hole is from where Trinity stabbed him in CP. He says it lets him feel pain for the first time.

[ChainRevolver]

Is it confirmed that Ragna became the new core of Amaterasu, or it is still a theory?

[Vulcan422]

3 hours ago, ChainRevolver said:

Is it confirmed that Ragna became the new core of Amaterasu, or it is still a theory?

It's confirmed.

[Kenji Harima]

So... the story is even more complicated.

Spoiler!

Spoiler

A very nice explanation wrote by Zedar90 on his blog.

Damn... I used to think that "The Origin" might be a "mother" (productions based on her) to Jin, Saya and Ragna but it was mysterious Prime Field Device No. 5

So technically part of Saya resides in Noel but our Ragna "chilling out" with the second Saya in the Master Unit. Still I don't know why Saya "The Origin" in Master Unit refers to him as her brother.

"Decades ago"... "Izanami's vessel" and "monster"... Saya Terumi and Naoto?

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

"Decades ago"... "Izanami's vessel" and "monster"... Saya Terumi and Naoto?

Oh snap. Looks like there might be a connection there after all.

I'm taking this over to the theory thread to flesh it out, but maybe we do have an explanation for Ragna/Jin/Saya's origins after all.

But to get this straight; Ragna and Jin's sister is now technically as whole as she can be after Noel absorbs Izanami and fuses again with Mu-12?

[sg1989]

2 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

So... the story is even more complicated.

Spoiler!

  Reveal hidden contents

A very nice explanation wrote by Zedar90 on his blog.

Damn... I used to think that "The Origin" might be a "mother" (productions based on her) to Jin, Saya and Ragna but it was mysterious Prime Field Device No. 5

So technically part of Saya resides in Noel but our Ragna "chilling out" with the second Saya in the Master Unit. Still I don't know why Saya "The Origin" in Master Unit refers to him as her brother.

"Decades ago"... "Izanami's vessel" and "monster"... Saya Terumi and Naoto?

 

 

Spoiler

Really Mori.....this?

PS: but these are only theories, or came out from some official material?

 

[DreadGrimReaper]

It's official.  It from the game.

[MaximusMurkimus]

Right, that could potentially explain quite a lot and link the universes together, but we need to confirm first. Are XBlaze and BEE alternate universes, or prequels? XBlaze apparently takes place 130 or so years before BlazBlue and BEE an undisclosed time beforehand. 

[Kenji Harima]

1 hour ago, sg1989 said:

 

  Hide contents

Really Mori.....this?

PS: but these are only theories, or came out from some official material?

 

The linked text posted in previous post will follow you on the blog which belongs to one of the most reliable person in BlazBlue community in general. He is renowned on Dustloop too. His explanations about

Spoiler

Saya, "The Origin", Prime Field Device No. 5 and some other things are from the game.

The loose theory about Izanami and Naoto was made by me and this thing need to be disscus in the speculation thread (not here).

On the other hand:

Spoiler

The vision of destroying Prime Field Device No.1 aka Saya in:

1) BlazBlue Alter Memory

2) BlazBlue Central Fiction (+ some others PFDs in the backround)

Any material collections, novels etc. didn't bring any potential vision what humanity had done but anime (which is mostly recognized as "terrible") yes

and

Spoiler

Damn I starded to think that ending isn't so bittersweet cause Ragna at least reunited with own sister (Saya!!!) so they can enjoy each others' company but now I am not sure about this. I need to watch the last 15 minutes again and try to translate it.

 

[Toxin45]

So what happens to the susano unit does it get thrown to a cauldran by Trinity?

[relic.nt]

So, I took extensive notes while I played through Central Fiction. I haven't done too much proof reading or fact checking replay yet, but I thought I'd share it already for people who are really eager to know what happens. Sometimes Q&A loses the context. This goes over everything that happens in story mode in a lot of detail, it will probably ruin story mode for you if you want to play it later. I'll eventually condense it into summary for my guide.

http://blazblue.kumodori.com/cfdigest.html

The two sections that I found the most interesting as a lorehead...

Creating Prime Field Devices

Spoiler

• Izanami's vessel is being repaired by Relius. Relius says the vessel won't last much longer since she's been abusing it so much. Izanami asks if there's another vessel. Relius says it's a miracle even this vessel can contain her. The model for Saya was "No. 5", a huge irregularity. Relius wished to analyze it more, but Jubei destroyed it. Izanami asks how her body was created. Relius says Prime Field Device creation is not set in stone and varies between creators. Concerning Materials: For the female side, a human can be used as the base or it can be built completely artificially like the dolls. (The dolls Relius makes are affixed with a soul.) For the male side, in other words the father of the artificial body, the catalyst is the Black Beast. Izanami says it's ironic she's also a child of the Black Beast. Relius says it's not really a child... but while production methods differ, it involves breeding the female with the Black Beast. Izanami's body is no exception, but other prime field devices were based off of it as either backups or research materials. Relius confirms Ragna and Jin could be called the "children" of "No. 5." "No. 5" was not Relius's creation, someone else made it based on his research. And Ayatsuki taught Relius how to create a body that could contain even a god. Relius says that decades ago... no, hundreds of years ago considering the current time, there was a girl who took the same form as Izanami's vessel. She could amplify seithr indefinitely, devour souls and take their power. She was ultimately defeated by her own "brother"... or more accurately consumed. Relius still remembers that beautiful sight. No.5 is a duplicate of that monster, so perfect you could call it the real thing, and Relius wishes he knew how it was created.

Prime Field War and Nine's Goal

Spoiler

• Nine fought desparately in the Dark War, partly because she saw it as her father's fault. After the war, Nine wanted to know why it was fought. Everything seemed too convenient to Nine. Even as a genius, Nine invented Ars Magus way too fast. She finally learned there was a war in the "distant past" where seithr was also used. The "Prime Field War."
• Relius tells Carl about the "Prime Field War." It was a war between humanity and the Prime Field Devices. It started with humanity finding the Master Unit. They saw the Master Unit as an object that could be controlled. Takamagahara was built, but it was flawed. It could perform interventions to rewind the flow of time, but could not intervene on the "possibilities" that compose the world. Even if it rewound time, the exact same events would happen. To figure out what their system was missing, humanity attempted to contact the Master Unit. So humanity explored the Boundary and found the Master Unit only responded to objects in "human form," which led to the creation of the Boundary Interface Prime Field Devices. The "First Prime Field Device" successfully made contact with the Master Unit and became its "eye"... it gained the power of an Observer. Whatever an Observer sees is made reality. The power of the "eye" (the Azure) is what was missing from Takamagahara. But along with the "eye", the Prime Field Devices also gained "souls" and became self-aware, so humanity destroyed them and threw them back in the Boundary to prevent them from intervening on their world. The First Prime Field Device, "The Origin", managed to contact the Master Unit again after being thrown away.
• Nine continues. "The Origin" saw the plight of her sisters: The cruel experimentation done on the other Prime Field Devices. This started the war. Even though the Devices were far outnumbered, due to Intervention and their built-in combat abilities, the war was in their favor. To oppose the Master Unit, humans prepared special equipment that wasn't affected by phenomena intervention. They used these to destroy the "eyes." Nine says this was convenient. She wonders how they could have predicted exactly what would happen and who gave them the right suggestions. Rachel mutters "...Father." So humanity staved off phenomena intervention with Izayoi, but there was a limit. "That" wasn't enough to neutralize Prime Field Devices either. Humanity used a "certain something" to mass produce a "self-observing" weapon of mass slaughter, based off the techniques used to create Izayoi.
• Celica interrupts Nine. She wants to know who started the war. Nine says it was the humans who started the genocide out of fear because the Prime Field Devices with souls had a dream: They wanted to be recognized as humans. Humans were scared because the Devices had greater physical abilities than humans and The Origin had the power of god. Human creations gained souls and started asserting self awareness. Humanity, and "that scum", used countless humans as a catalyst to create an insane weapon of mass slaughter to destroy the Prime Field Devices: The Black Beast. Take-Mikazuchi is based off of this. Even today people still try to create Black Beasts, like in Ibukido. It's much easier to create the uncontrollable Black Beast than the controllable Take-Mikazuchi. The Black Beast during the Prime Field War rampaged and ended the world.
• Relius continues. All humanity needed to do was win, even if the world ended. If they could complete the Takamagahara System with the Azure and win the war, they could use the Takamagahara System to rewind time and prevent the war from happening. After all, the Takamagahara System was built to ensure the existence of humanity. But on the verge of obtaining the Azure... a miscalculation in the system occurred.
• Nine continues. The Origin started "rebuilding" the world. The Takamagahara System was acting to prevent the Master Unit from redoing the war, but The Origin actually had an unpredicted desire. It just yearned to exist, yearned for a human world.
• Relius continues. It used the Takamagahara System to accomplish this because although the form was different, the desire was the same. The vessel used to rebuild the world is the Embryo and due to war, there was more than enough seithr to make it. In other words, the world that existed up till now was based off information from the world that was destroyed before.
• Nine continues. The Origin used the Master Unit Amaterasu to rebuild the world. This world itself is "Central Fiction." The world is made to repeat the same history over and over, up to Kagutsuchi. Nine doesn't know why The Origin wants this. Every time The Origin doesn't like the ending, the world is consumed by the Black Beast again and then the world is reset to the horrible Dark War. Nine hates everyone being used like this, endlessly reliving tragedies and gruesome ends. She wants to protect Celica, her friends, and loved ones. She wants their hard work to mean something and make a difference. But they have to keep repeating their performance for some little lady napping in a fancy piece of junk. Nine doesn't care about Celica's approval in this one instance she can't forgive. The world is repeating forever for the sake of fulfilling only one person's dream. Nine wants to end this dream, rewind back to "that time", and stand up a new world that isn't based on the will and dreams of another. She's creating a god with a perfect system (11th Nox Nyctores) that will prevent someone else form intervening so that anyone's dream can come true.

And some quotes I jotted down that made me laugh during the game:

Spoiler

Nine: What a detestable man.
Relius: The pleasure is mine.

Tsubaki: Ragna is Jin's older brother... do I need to start calling Ragna "Brother" as well? I wouldn't like that at all... oh, then maybe Jin can be the one to come to the Yayoi family...
Jin: Tsubaki, did you say something?
Tsubaki: N-no, it was nothing!

Kagura: Alright ghost girl. You there?
Trinity: Um... could you stop calling me by that name...
Kagura: Oh, sorry... You know, you've got a real nice body, it's a shame you're a ghost.
Trinity: Did you call me out just to sexually harass me?

 

[In&Out]

1 hour ago, relic.nt said:

So, I took extensive notes while I played through Central Fiction. I haven't done too much proof reading or fact checking replay yet, but I thought I'd share it already for people who are really eager to know what happens.

Once again, thank you! This is exactly what I needed, and I'm sure a lot of others will find it useful too. Now excuse me, I have a ton of text to read.

Spoiler

• Hazama says he doesn't know why he's still alive. After Trinity pulled Terumi out, she should have killed Hazama. She let him live, maybe because he looks like her old friend.
• [Hazama] jumps into the Cauldron. Trinity is sad for "Kazuma, no Hazama"

Goddammit, Trinity, we've been over this!

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

When does that conversation between Izzy and Relly take place? 

Because I don't see why would either be helping each other at this point, especially since Izzy left him out to dry at the end of CP.

I'm just glad we have some confirmation with the Izanami/Saya Terumi thing; there was a reason they looked alike after all.

[Hero19]

I just don't understand Trinity line of thinking. She spare a psycho because she still somewhat believes that he is someone she still loves when she knows he is dead. Until the very end she can never just see Hazama as a bastard who truly needs to be taken down for good but as Kazuma.

[relic.nt]

9 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

When does that conversation between Izzy and Relly take place? 

Because I don't see why would either be helping each other at this point, especially since Izzy left him out to dry at the end of CP.

I'm just glad we have some confirmation with the Izanami/Saya Terumi thing; there was a reason they looked alike after all.

It happens right between Act I and Act II, right before Nine tells everyone to kill Izanami. After this conversation, Izanami tells Relius that since he's qualified (qualified is what they went with instead of Entitled), he's welcome to try to kill her too. Relius says he's more interested in other things and kind of just spends the game wandering about and telling people their souls are interesting. The Izanami/Saya Terumi hint was nice... I really wish they went into it more, especially since this scene happened early in the game. I guess they're saving it for Bloodedge Experience 3.

[MaximusMurkimus]

The one thing I don't get is that only Saya T. and Izanami look alike; Ragna/Jin/Saya/5th PFD are all green eyed, blond haired things. If they're all based off of Saya T, why does Izzy only keep her appearance, and how?

Also, I'm glad that suspicion is true; "Saya" as Ragna/Jin know her was always split between multiple people, but I didn't expect it to be just between Izanami and Noel. So by absorbing Izanami and Mu-12 and regaining those memories, Noel is basically Saya in everything but name. Shame, Lambda could use the reason to exist but this is fine too. Also glad that Ragna insisted on saving Sayanami instead of outright defeating her, which he probably couldn't pull off anyway if Act 2 was any indication.

This was the payoff I was waiting for, you're da man Mori.

Your notes are incredible, btw.

[DreadGrimReaper]

I don't want say this, but..

So Susano'o/Yūki Terumi is Ragna's half brother or uncle?

[Toxin45]

No there not related.

[MaximusMurkimus]

Just now, DreadGrimReaper said:

I don't want say this, but..

So Susano'o/Yūki Terumi is Ragna's half brother or uncle?

No, but Naoto might be, considering that the 3 siblings are direct descendants of a PFD that was modeled after his sister.

[DreadGrimReaper]

Huh... Good and thank you~

Because I don't want another siblings shenanigans..

Unless.

Naa. l just don't want to know.

[Sashide]

9 hours ago, Hero19 said:

I just don't understand Trinity line of thinking. She spare a psycho because she still somewhat believes that he is someone she still loves when she knows he is dead. Until the very end she can never just see Hazama as a bastard who truly needs to be taken down for good but as Kazuma.

Think of how she acted even in the face of Kazuma's betrayal, because he was the one who had her remove Mind Eater. Sure Terumi told him to, but it was him that was ultimately responsible for all of that. Not to mention all the times in PS where he's the one "playing" Terumi, because Terumi couldn't lie-- like when he sneaks off to talk to Seven and Eight about Takemikazuchi and tells Nine he just went to use the bathroom. Kazuma was a bad egg for good as soon as he fused with Terumi, but she didn't want to see that and still doesn't want to.

Of course she sees him in Hazama, especially because Hazama makes a point to use Kazuma's inflection and manner of speech when he talks to her a few times.

[relic.nt]

11 hours ago, Hero19 said:

I just don't understand Trinity line of thinking. She spare a psycho because she still somewhat believes that he is someone she still loves when she knows he is dead. Until the very end she can never just see Hazama as a bastard who truly needs to be taken down for good but as Kazuma.

Yeah... after reading Phase Shift 1, it didn't even really seem Kazuma and Trinity were very close anyway. And Kazuma's inner thoughts were always pretty rotten... I didn't feel like he was a decent guy who got corrupted.

Actually, I was confused whether or not Hazama really is Kazuma after all. On top of Trinity's slips of tongue, at the end of the game, Trinity says:

Spoiler

[Susanoo Unit goes back into the Boundary] Thanks to you, I was able to meet everyone again... Celica, Valkenhayn, Jubei, Hakumen... And Nine. And even... Him. It's almost like a "miracle"... No, it definitely was a miracle... I'll take that miracle with me, and go... To a place where we can sleep in peace.

I'm not sure who she was referring to.  [Edit: Nevermind, just me being dumb. She must have been referring to Ragna, I forgot she traveled with him during the Dark War. Also, she knew what Ragna was planning to do at the end. *sigh* Why can't people speak straight in this game... always "him", "her", "it", and "that" even after all the secrets are revealed.]

Also, in Naoto's arcade and VS quotes, he clearly recognizes Hazama as someone who caused Naoto a ton of problems (although he says this Hazama is more mature.) Hazama does not recognize Naoto and Relius says he doesn't remember Hazama from back then. Relius says Naoto is definitely the Naoto Kurogane he knew. Raquel says their world is a possibility or starting point off of this world.

In story mode, Naoto says Ragna is a possibility of Naoto. When Hazama jumps into the Cauldron, everyone assumes he'll get torn apart in there, but Naoto is initially adamant that Hazama survived.

[relic.nt]

On 10/7/2016 at 9:05 PM, MaximusMurkimus said:

All this drama and I nearly forgot about the greatest joke route of all time. 

Someone who has gotten the Spectacles gag reel, please tell me how did it end up like this, lmao

Is she holding....a knife?!

Ah, they have a Battle Royale to decide who gets to be Ragna's true love. At this part, they're doing a cooking battle. Everyone is very yandere, except for Celica and Noel, who just wants to cook him food. But... her food is as expected. Haha, as expected, Izanami's food is identical to Noel's food. She actively uses it to poison mostly everyone else though.

[1337 H@x0r]

Well...

11 hours ago, Hero19 said:

I just don't understand Trinity line of thinking. She spare a psycho because she still somewhat believes that he is someone she still loves when she knows he is dead. Until the very end she can never just see Hazama as a bastard who truly needs to be taken down for good but as Kazuma.

Trinity is the Sakura of BB, she is hopelessly in love with an imaginary version of a psychopath whose real self betrays and ditches her to a miserable death without a second thought. It's still up for debate if Sasuke really married Sakura or if he had a child with someone else for eugenic shenanigans and just put her under a Genjustu to ward of suspicion until he goes full Susanoo on the idiots who trust him.

 

Anyhow, at least Trinity got to cut down the bastard who corrupted Kazuma/Hazama which is something Sakura can never claim to redeem her character.

[Sashide]

25 minutes ago, relic.nt said:

Yeah... after reading Phase Shift 1, it didn't even really seem Kazuma and Trinity were very close anyway. And Kazuma's inner thoughts were always pretty rotten... I didn't feel like he was a decent guy who got corrupted.

Actually, I was confused whether or not Hazama really is Kazuma after all. On top of Trinity's slips of tongue, at the end of the game, Trinity says:

  Hide contents

[Susanoo Unit goes back into the Boundary] Thanks to you, I was able to meet everyone again... Celica, Valkenhayn, Jubei, Hakumen... And Nine. And even... Him. It's almost like a "miracle"... No, it definitely was a miracle... I'll take that miracle with me, and go... To a place where we can sleep in peace.

I'm not sure who she was referring to.

Also, in Naoto's arcade and VS quotes, he clearly recognizes Hazama as someone who caused Naoto a ton of problems (although he says this Hazama is more mature.) Hazama does not recognize Naoto and Relius says he doesn't remember Hazama from back then. Relius says Naoto is definitely the Naoto Kurogane he knew. Raquel says their world is a possibility or starting point off of this world.

In story mode, Naoto says Ragna is a possibility of Naoto. When Hazama jumps into the Cauldron, everyone assumes he'll get torn apart in there, but Naoto is initially adamant that Hazama survived.

They were! They talked every day, she was Kazuma's only real friend, though he's a bit of an idiot about realizing it. Also if you think that about Kazuma I'd suggest rereading the very first chapter before Terumi is the picture + the beastkin attacks, he's a bit of a derp but he's certainly not rotten then. He had the chance to be a decent guy, even Clavis says this.