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Chaoschao222

Central Fiction Story Discussion

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4 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Izanami's defeat is actually pretty ironic; talks about the inevitably of death and how nobody can escape it...and that includes herself seeing how she goes out begging for her own life before her consciousness is absorbed by Noel. 

It also sad considering she had to watch her brother do her in.

To be fair, she started indulging in her host body's "wants" (chiefly, growing more attached to Ragna as things went along) and even slowly came to the realization that she DID have a desire of her own. And as Relius put it "if you have a desire, then you have a soul". Trouble is, she came to realize this a little too late and had a really rather no-nonsense Ragna barreling at her doorstep.

5 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Jeez, guess naming isn't Mori's strong suit.

Along with cohesion, characterization/development for characters outside of Ragna, Jin, Noel (and her other selves) and utilizing what he's already written. I'll grant that Mori has very interesting concepts and that BlazBlue's story is certainly notches better than most fighters out there. But there's still just as many problems, like how very large portion of the cast is underused and exist as little more than narrative fodder or distractions (see Taokaka for a grand big example).

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I liked the whole end stretch of CF, very bittersweet.

Though I'm wondering, if they remake reality, doesn't that mean all the "old" versions of those characters are dead, and the ones existing in the final reality are totally different beings?

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5 minutes ago, mAc Chaos said:

I liked the whole end stretch of CF, very bittersweet.

Though I'm wondering, if they remake reality, doesn't that mean all the "old" versions of those characters are dead, and the ones existing in the final reality are totally different beings?

Hmm...I wonder...I have a response to this, but it's speculation of my own. And, your own post itself was kind of speculation. I'm not sure if i'll get modded for posting speculation in response to your own speculation or not.

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2 hours ago, churchblue said:

I just realized that Cajun and Mai are the mirror image to Kokonoe and Tager. Also, much percent is Mai in Story mode. Does she really fight Relius?

The relationship of Mai and Kajun isn't anything like that of Tager and Kokonoe. Tager is Kokonoe's slave; he does whatever she commands and she treats him practically like a tool. Mai doesn't take orders from Kajun and Kajun honestly cares for her and sees her as her friend. The only similarities are that Kajun and Kokonoe are more brainy while Mai and Tager are more brawny, but that's pretty superficial.

Mai plays a pretty minor role in the story mode; she does fight Relius in her arcade mode.

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10 minutes ago, Leiopelma said:

Mai plays a pretty minor role in the story mode

To be a bit more precise, the only playable character who gets less to do in the whole thing is Hibiki.

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15 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Izanami's defeat is actually pretty ironic; talks about the inevitably of death and how nobody can escape it...and that includes herself seeing how she goes out begging for her own life before her consciousness is absorbed by Noel. 

 

It also sad considering she had to watch her brother do her in.

Yeah, that scene was pretty hard to watch; even though she was totally asking for it and Saya would be okay, Izzy was freaking out in a fairly human way; reminds me of how much Voldemort was all DIE DIE DIE; then he got a taste and suddenly it wasn't so much fun anymore. I'm just glad Ragna was also able to save her some in some form as a result, and also managed to to give her a much more stable body through Noel.

One thing I am wondering however, is whether or not Saya's soul was actually was in any cooperation with Izanami the entire time, like how Hazama and Terumi are in a mutual agreement. Saying things about how she won't be able to saved by Ragna and if he really hates her, how she looks down on Noel and the Murakumos or her own contempt towards Jin all sound a bit more personal than how she normally goes about doing things throughout the series, and makes me think that there really was a part of Saya that thought what Izzy was doing was right.

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On 13.10.2016 at 11:54 PM, Luminos564 said:

The Origin (Prime Field No.5) which is "Saya"

The Origin is the 1st Prime Field Device not the No.5 :)

7 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

One thing I am wondering however, is whether or not Saya's soul was actually was in any cooperation with Izanami the entire time, like how Hazama and Terumi are in a mutual agreement. Saying things about how she won't be able to saved by Ragna and if he really hates her, how she looks down on Noel and the Murakumos or her own contempt towards Jin all sound a bit more personal than how she normally goes about doing things throughout the series, and makes me think that there really was a part of Saya that thought what Izzy was doing was right.

It's really hard to discuss. Saya wasn't aware even in Noel who has been a combination of souls between "The Origin" and Saya since the CT. Of course Saya's memories triggered  Noel to do several things. It seems that Saya acted several times personally and only in the CP (when Arakune was going to "devour" her, when Noel was whispering "Nii-sama" and had these "empty" green eyes after Rags came back from Dark Wark Era and when she and Jin were fighting with "berserk" Ragna).

Because "The Origin", Saya (little sister) and Noel have strong attachment toward Ragna (Noel developed her own feelings toward Ragna through the game) we aren't able to speculate how much "Saya" (little sister) was in Noel (CT era) in Izanami or in the Murakumo Units. What do I mean? Noel is the new being created from parts of two souls (although now she is technically Saya) but the Izanami was a being who was using the other (Saya) as a tool.

However I don't know why Ragna acknowledged Izanami as Saya from the first glance but avoided it in Noel's case even she was much more similar (though in the end of game it had meaning -> for Noel safety).

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I was really suspected in the Arcade Plot Discussion thread that Carl won't become a new Relius (or rather a scientist) but his calmness at the end of CF and thirst for knowledge have changed my mind. Now it's really interesting which path he will take -> like his father or totally other. 

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20 hours ago, mAc Chaos said:

I liked the whole end stretch of CF, very bittersweet.

Though I'm wondering, if they remake reality, doesn't that mean all the "old" versions of those characters are dead, and the ones existing in the final reality are totally different beings?

You can see it like that, but you can also view it like water. When you evaporate it, it becomes vapour - it's the same water, just in a different form. Then you condense the same vapour into water again.
So whether they really died is up to interpretation

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2 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

The Origin is the 1st Prime Field Device not the No.5 :)

Sweet Azure Jesus, so how many "Saya(s)" are out there then in total? I'm racking my brain more trying to piece all this clusterkluk of information than I had to when I watched Evangelion 15 years ago.

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3 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

I was really suspected in the Arcade Plot Discussion thread that Carl won't become a new Relius (or rather a scientist) but his calmness at the end of CF and thirst for knowledge have changed my mind. Now it's really interesting which path he will take -> like his father or totally other. 

Relius tells Hazama that Carl might even surpass him and Hazama replies that he's leaving a really dangerous bomb in this world.

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1 hour ago, Dovahkyon said:

so what Did Azrael do in the story?

Tried to fight some of the other characters, made a contract with Izanami, fought a couple more times, reminded Bullet that he was the one who wiped out the mercenary group she was in, nearly released more of his power against Kagura before being frozen by Jin, then got locked up again in Sector 7.

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2 hours ago, redsilversnake said:

Tried to fight some of the other characters, made a contract with Izanami, fought a couple more times, reminded Bullet that he was the one who wiped out the mercenary group she was in, nearly released more of his power against Kagura before being frozen by Jin, then got locked up again in Sector 7.

they frozen him again! come on how many times is that going to happen?

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13 hours ago, Kenji Harima said:

The Origin is the 1st Prime Field Device not the No.5 :)

It's really hard to discuss. Saya wasn't aware even in Noel who has been a combination of souls between "The Origin" and Saya since the CT. Of course Saya's memories triggered  Noel to do several things. It seems that Saya acted several times personally and only in the CP (when Arakune was going to "devour" her, when Noel was whispering "Nii-sama" and had these "empty" green eyes after Rags came back from Dark Wark Era and when she and Jin were fighting with "berserk" Ragna).

Because "The Origin", Saya (little sister) and Noel have strong attachment toward Ragna (Noel developed her own feelings toward Ragna through the game) we aren't able to speculate how much "Saya" (little sister) was in Noel (CT era) in Izanami or in the Murakumo Units. What do I mean? Noel is the new being created from parts of two souls (although now she is technically Saya) but the Izanami was a being who was using the other (Saya) as a tool.

However I don't know why Ragna acknowledged Izanami as Saya from the first glance but avoided it in Noel's case even she was much more similar (though in the end of game it had meaning -> for Noel safety).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was really suspected in the Arcade Plot Discussion thread that Carl won't become a new Relius (or rather a scientist) but his calmness at the end of CF and thirst for knowledge have changed my mind. Now it's really interesting which path he will take -> like his father or totally other. 

Well both Ragna and Jin recognize Noel's resemblance to Saya almost immediately, but notice that she's a different person entirely despite her uncanny resemblance; Izanami never denies being Saya and once again, her brothers recognize her almost immediately. Sooooooo, you got me. 

 

I think since they're both parts of Saya, they have parts of her whole; Noel has her memories which explains her having flashbacks to the times in the Church, while Izanami has her consciousness, which would explain why she mockingly calls Ragna "brother" and why she's completely dismissive of Jin.

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12 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Well both Ragna and Jin recognize Noel's resemblance to Saya almost immediately, but notice that she's a different person entirely despite her uncanny resemblance; Izanami never denies being Saya and once again, her brothers recognize her almost immediately. Sooooooo, you got me. 

 

I think since they're both parts of Saya, they have parts of her whole; Noel has her memories which explains her having flashbacks to the times in the Church, while Izanami has her consciousness, which would explain why she mockingly calls Ragna "brother" and why she's completely dismissive of Jin.

So in a way both of Saya's consciousness and memories have been split into two beings with Izanami gaining the consciousness and Noel/Mu-12 gaining the memories but when Noel absorbed Izanami into her, both of these pieces reunited with each other again and Saya was reborn but she still goes by her current Noel alias.

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2 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

So in a way both of Saya's consciousness and memories have been split into two beings with Izanami gaining the consciousness and Noel/Mu-12 gaining the memories but when Noel absorbed Izanami into her, both of these pieces reunited with each other again and Saya was reborn but she still goes by her current Noel alias.

My thing is, Noel is unapologetically nice, so it makes sense to consider that she's Saya's "good" half. This would normally lead to the conclusion that Izanami is Saya's "dark side", at least the part that interacts with Ragna/Jin. But is there anything indicating that it's a mutual relationship like Hazama/Terumi, or is Izzy just acting on all those negative emotions from Saya? 

I feel there are reasons to suspect one or the other, namely because while Izzy makes it clear at times that her own motivations are separate from Saya, there are some times where it sounds like its Saya talking directly, namely at the end of CP when she questions if Ragna is trying to kill them because he hates her.

Either way, the payoff for this was incredible, even though I don't like the idea of Noel having an identity crisis again. Does she respond to either name after the merge?

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On 10/14/2016 at 3:08 PM, Luminos564 said:

In other words, Mori picked up FFX (reMastered) and made Ragna into Tidus, although thankfully without the added baggage of daddy issues and wangst to go along with it. Here's hoping Ragna doesn't get his head blown off after he 5Bs a football in some side novella.

As a side note, anyone else weirded out how Drives are suddenly integrated into the narrative? For instance, the big reason why people are forgetting Ragna is because he's going around and using Soul Eater to om nom nom nom all their memories of him and their would-be desires (because it can do that now). He also actively uses Devoured by Darkness on Nine (even though the shape is that of Dead Spike or possibly the Hell's Fang follow-up) and he finishes off Terumi by performing Black Onslaught. It's a little bit jarring since the past games never established a Drive's importance, though in fairness, Soul Eater is supposed to be "special".

Lastly, I would love to point out that Ragna is a very protective bro to Saya. Especially after the Noel/Mu12/Izanami merger. Kagura decides that now of all times is the moment to flirt with the newly reborn "Saya" (in Noel). Ragna's response is to deck him in the face as hard as he can. Nine would be proud and have a great big thumb of approval.

WTH Square Enix? Speaking of Square Enix, I wonder if we could do a BlazBlue version of this. Massive Kingom Hearts spoilers.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

My thing is, Noel is unapologetically nice, so it makes sense to consider that she's Saya's "good" half. This would normally lead to the conclusion that Izanami is Saya's "dark side", at least the part that interacts with Ragna/Jin. But is there anything indicating that it's a mutual relationship like Hazama/Terumi, or is Izzy just acting on all those negative emotions from Saya? 

I feel there are reasons to suspect one or the other, namely because while Izzy makes it clear at times that her own motivations are separate from Saya, there are some times where it sounds like its Saya talking directly, namely at the end of CP when she questions if Ragna is trying to kill them because he hates her.

Either way, the payoff for this was incredible, even though I don't like the idea of Noel having an identity crisis again. Does she respond to either name after the merge?

I guess that's what it looks like if I used Superman from DC Comics for an example since he goes by Clark Kent which is his adopted name on Earth so he can blend in when he works at the Daily Planet and a few of the DC Heroes like Batman, Aquaman, Flash and etc but there are people who also refer to him as Kal-El, his Kryptonian name like Wonder Woman and Darkseid.

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Did we even get to see a scene of Ragna talking to Tenjou in the Lynchpin or was that all offscreen?

I wanna know if Ragna called her Oba-chan.

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1 hour ago, Stryker115 said:

Did we even get to see a scene of Ragna talking to Tenjou in the Lynchpin or was that all offscreen?

I wanna know if Ragna called her Oba-chan.

There is a scene of that. And he didn't.

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He probably doesn't call Tenjo that because Tenjo suddenly being a woman was never a thing until they randomly decided it for the new novel because 'we need more boobs in the cast.'

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On 16/10/2016 at 3:49 PM, Luminos564 said:

Sweet Azure Jesus, so how many "Saya(s)" are out there then in total? I'm racking my brain more trying to piece all this clusterkluk of information than I had to when I watched Evangelion 15 years ago.

Apparently 3. Not counting whatever parts of Saya Nu and Lambda could have since they got their own soul now and anything beyond that is speculation.

The three confirmed parts of Saya are in Noel, Izanami and The Origin.

Thing is, Noel also had Mu-12, who was also a part of The Origin. (I think?)

Noel absorbed all those parts, but the ending indicates she messed up while getting The Origin back, since Saya (As in The Origin/CP Girl with the Book) spoke to Ragna when he took over Amaterasu and he's chilling with her now.

Despite all this nonsense, Noel pretty much identifies herself as Saya, but still wants to be called Noel.

Hope this somewhat cleared it up. Only saw a Twitch Stream with the English Subs, but the dude hasn't done the Sub Scenarios yet.

 

Speaking of Sub Scenarios, I figure Carl, Litchi and Arakune's endings are there, but what happened?

Looks like Carl's following Relius' path, but what about Ada? I heard Ada was gone, but I couldn't find anything confirming it.

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4 hours ago, Volt said:

Speaking of Sub Scenarios, I figure Carl, Litchi and Arakune's endings are there, but what happened?

Looks like Carl's following Relius' path, but what about Ada? I heard Ada was gone, but I couldn't find anything confirming it.

Carl's story doesn't really end; he gets information from the Boundary, losing his left eye in the process, but doesn't believe he's gained enough, so is still looking to get more. As for Litchi and Arakune, Litchi seems to accept Roy's plan to stay in the Boundary, and thus makes to destroy Arakune as he suggested she should, but Bang knocks her unconscious because he believes she shouldn't shoulder having severed her only remaining connection to Roy and decides to destroy Arakune himself, but Arakune escapes.

Regarding Ada, the game isn't really all that clear on her, but the library entry on her says she's dead, though I was only skimming, so I'm not sure if it means since when she was put into Nirvana or some point after.

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4 hours ago, Orihalcon said:

He probably doesn't call Tenjo that because Tenjo suddenly being a woman was never a thing until they randomly decided it for the new novel because 'we need more boobs in the cast.'

IIRC Tenjou was always referred to with gender-less pronouns in the JP versions.

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