[CS1] Jin Gameplay Discussion v2 (No bitching edition)

[xlolxlolx]

lol 6A more? no no no that will get you killed on block. If you're close enough to do 2A>5B(1) then continue with j.A>j.B over them, should cross them up but not sure if it works on characters with retarded hitboxes like bang and carl. Grab is another option, 2Axn>(dash)grab

[Kristoph]

I don't know about the whole 'conditioning with 6a' thing. You really should only be using that move if you think it's going to hit.

That being said, people do sleep on that move and it has its place against lazy down-back blockers. At least prove to them that you're willing to use the option so they have to think a little more on defense. Throws can only take you so far, even with 6b throw baits to punish antsy people.

I actually rarely have ever had 6a blocked in CS to my recollection. I usually either misjudge the situation/player and get jabbed out of it from the get go, which all things considered is probably good news because of how unsafe it is, or end up getting a nice sekkajin combo on a lazy down-back-all-day player. The risk-reward doesn't seem too bad if you have an idea of your opponent's mindset, and this thread seems to be about laaaame blockers, so if that's the kind of player you're facing, I'd say 6a is a valuable tool.

Also do not be afraid to throw 6d in from time to time.

[Plants]

Yeah,I should have just said let them know that you DO have 6a to use if they're constantly blocking low. Hope that makes sense.

[shadow2bolt]

Keep putting pressure on them and do one of these:

1. Go for crossup (AD>j.A(whiff)>j.B)

2. Go for a jump into an attack in the air>land>High/low attack (go for a double high attack) or throw

3. Go for a throw subtly like 2A>dash>throw (tick throw I think the term is, someone correct me).

4. Riskier option but more rewarding if in/near the corner is to bait an attack and go for DP.

[shadow2bolt]

I've been experimenting around with the 3C>236C corner setup for various mixups.

Options I've found:

1. If they roll in a direction/quick wakeup, it will hit and then you can combo into 5C>hjc>j.2C>j.D>AD>j.B>j.2C>land>dash>5B>2B>5C>3C or instead of airdash, Land>Reset combo>2B>5C>623B>corner combo (low) or AD>delayed (for reset)>j.2C>land>corner combo or Land>reset>throw>623B corner combo. Obviously, there is the option of going into a 4k+ combo or something if you think it will finish them.

2. If they delay their wakeup, just wait for the combo counter to reset then do 2B>5C combo (may not be in the corner as they may do a forward roll so this is just one of those options)

3. And something I was experimenting with last night, if they are going to do a neutral wakeup: do a jump and go into a mixup as if it were a 3C>236D reset.

4. IF they have a DP, bait it out by doing option 3 but block instead. Then Fatal corner combo if they don't have 50% heat to save them self otherwise, you could counter with your own DP.

Obviously, there are tons more options and I would like to know a few more as a fellow Jin player. I've been theorising a walkback>6C oki but I've never been able to put it to practice. Should work when 5C Oki doesn't work against the smaller hitboxes but a lot harder to time with more reward if you choose your combos right.

Also I have some notes on my other computer which I would like to share but currently, it is decommissioned so I'll post them when I have retrieved the files. I would like to add to it as I have yet to read this whole thread for things I've missed out.

[flytai45]

what are jin's air unblockable moves????

[shadow2bolt]

2C, 6C, 623B (not sure about A and C), second hit of 623D (not too certain of the first hit). All those can be barrier blocked a part from the second hit of 623D.

[smooshman]

what are jin's air unblockable moves????

6C,2C,623A/B/C/D,632146D.

[flytai45]

okay so i have been playing some good people and watching alot of videos and it seems that everyone else is able to pressure greatly and that I however cannot. So i was wondering if someone here wouldn't mind to help me overcome this seemingly huge obstacle in my game by offering some advice or knowledge on a subject that i know nothing about? plz and ty:psyduck:

[shadow2bolt]

When pressuring, never use the same pressure string as you did before. You don't need to finish it all the time with 3C/6C or special move. Better if you finish it with something with fast recovery like 2A or 5B as people will be expecting that next attack so you can dash in and restart pressuring again instead of going into 5C.

If they are barrier blocking a lot, you will probably need to close the gaps a lot more but you should include a throw somewhere as it will slip their mind.

[smooshman]

okay so i have been playing some good people and watching alot of videos and it seems that everyone else is able to pressure greatly and that I however cannot. So i was wondering if someone here wouldn't mind to help me overcome this seemingly huge obstacle in my game by offering some advice or knowledge on a subject that i know nothing about? plz and ty:psyduck:

if you have to do ice sword make sure you're at the tip of 2D's range, that way they have a harder time escaping and can catch back dashes with 2D, if they barrier 2D, then you can do a couple 5C>2D's, but make sure to not abuse that. Also remember you want to hit them, so do a couple 5B/5C>IAD JD/236D, and tick throws.

doing dash cancels is ballsy, but if you do I recommend "barrier braking" (use barrier, not really a real mechanic, but helps confirm you're blocking) that way you can bait escape attempts, but it they grab you....

oki pressure I recommend doing 236C, and maybe jump back>AD to catch them, or 236C>pressure... or even just 2A/2B to catch rolls. against Ragna..... jump barrier to bait ID, if they do... well you know what to do, if they don't you can throw an ice sword or JB/J2C(/AD JD if you want to risk it), hell even just land into mixup.

236D>6D is really safe, and allows you to follow up with just about anything, and 6D is pretty good against Rachel (she can't match it's range before the wall is garuanteed).

Jin's pressure is very unsafe, so try to scare your opponent to keep them from trying to escape.

Trying things for yourself is also a good idea.

[flytai45]

When pressuring, never use the same pressure string as you did before. You don't need to finish it all the time with 3C/6C or special move. Better if you finish it with something with fast recovery like 2A or 5B as people will be expecting that next attack so you can dash in and restart pressuring again instead of going into 5C.

If they are barrier blocking a lot, you will probably need to close the gaps a lot more but you should include a throw somewhere as it will slip their mind.

if you have to do ice sword make sure you're at the tip of 2D's range, that way they have a harder time escaping and can catch back dashes with 2D, if they barrier 2D, then you can do a couple 5C>2D's, but make sure to not abuse that. Also remember you want to hit them, so do a couple 5B/5C>IAD JD/236D, and tick throws.

doing dash cancels is ballsy, but if you do I recommend "barrier braking" (use barrier, not really a real mechanic, but helps confirm you're blocking) that way you can bait escape attempts, but it they grab you....

oki pressure I recommend doing 236C, and maybe jump back>AD to catch them, or 236C>pressure... or even just 2A/2B to catch rolls. against Ragna..... jump barrier to bait ID, if they do... well you know what to do, if they don't you can throw an ice sword or JB/J2C(/AD JD if you want to risk it), hell even just land into mixup.

236D>6D is really safe, and allows you to follow up with just about anything, and 6D is pretty good against Rachel (she can't match it's range before the wall is garuanteed).

Jin's pressure is very unsafe, so try to scare your opponent to keep them from trying to escape.

Trying things for yourself is also a good idea.

thanks to the both of you guys. This all seems like alot to learn but i surely will work on it...do you guys reccommend practicing this on a training dummy set to block all?

[smooshman]

thanks to the both of you guys. This all seems like alot to learn but i surely will work on it...do you guys reccommend practicing this on a training dummy set to block all?

an actual person would be better, but when in rome.....

sure, set it to block-type as random and go. also you can practice hit confirm by setting blocking "random".

[Rylentless]

I think that in this case, theres 2 options;

For air, a good j.C or 214B

On ground, TK a 236C for distance and a sword for zoning or 214B.

Because everyone always needs more ice carz.

[smooshman]

I think that in this case, theres 2 options;

For air, a good j.C or 214B

On ground, TK a 236C for distance and a sword for zoning or 214B.

Because everyone always needs more ice carz.

ice car is never good to throw randomly (unless you have 50 heat, but that's a waste), ground wise 2D or 236B/A are good, never tried TK236C... JC is good too.

[Ice Cube]

Question: How much frame advantage does Jin have after corner 6C > 214C if the opponent do emergency tech? Exact number if possible.

[smooshman]

Question: How much frame advantage does Jin have after corner 6C > 214C if the opponent do emergency tech? Exact number if possible.

from what I can gather....

it's -1:vbang:

it says 24 knockdown, and 25 recovery.

[Roldy]

It's not like the opponent can instantly recover. It takes a couple of frames to tech.

Plus, in this particular situation, the opponent is in the air after being hit by 214C, so I think there might be a couple extra frames of knockdown. It takes a longer time for the opponent to hit the ground (and emergency tech).

[Ice Cube]

Jin's total recovery is 5+25 = 30 frames, emergency tech is 32 frames, the problem is the time between the hitstop and opponent touching ground. I can only tell it's around 4~8 frames from match vids. Which would gives Jin frame advantage around 6~10 frames. Is there anyway to tell the exact number though.

[Warslane]

Is B Ice Car punishable in the air after you hit them and is 5D in the air punishable if it doesn't freeze?

[Ice Cube]

B ice car as combo ender in the air is pretty safe, as ground combo ender is -3 (LOL) so safe (fastest attack in game is 5 frame).

I assume your talking about j.D. If you're using non-freeze j.D as combo ender, your combo obviously got lots of problem. Anw j.D doesn't have landing recovery so it's safe. Or you can always throw D ice sword to beat punish attempt.

[Warslane]

What can I follow up with after I counter hit 6C someone in the air? I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do when I do that.

[xlolxlolx]

That really depends on the height of when your 6C hits, if you get them low you can follow up with 2D>combo if they're high up your only option is really to DC>air combo

[Roldy]

I'm not 100% sure, but 6C on counter hit is untechable until the opponent hits the ground.

I usually follow up a counter hit 6C (from any height) with a dash cancel > dash (again) 6C > air combo.

[Kyle]

If you're active, knowledgeable and generally give a shit. Send me a PM.

THX,

Kyle