[GGAC] Jam Match-up Thread

[ryokoalways]

Two parts to my suggestions, based on two different Eddie that I played for a period of time, rather than just 3-4 matches. I think I played each of these people at least an hour. 1. Taiwan SBO team eddie- Didn't drop a single combo, did at least 5 different types of gatling into unblockable (so I didn't even know when I could jump to nullify), amazing little eddie manuvering and uppercut usage. Basically every fight got turned into a goddamn combo video. I won like a total of 3 rounds. Moral victory, I consistently beat his command throw, but he didn't really use it that much (hell he didn't have to). It did help playing him first though, since there were several other eddie, and they were nowhere as accurate in their assault. 2. This is one where it actually felt like Jam vs eddie is pretty even. For offensively, I disagree with taking it to the air. I think both ground and air approach are necessary, and it needs to be balanced type of attack. But do note that the safest spot is right above him. Other than that, once you are on the offensive, it's easy, do whatever else you do, nothing is different. Eddie's defensive options are few and pathetic. As for defensive, learn to IB the first hit of the 2 hit thing. You technically don't have to IB to follow up with reversal, but it makes the window a lot bigger, making things a hell lot easier. There are a few things you can do under pressure: backdash and parry. My approach right now is to just choose one and go with it once the pressure comes, rather than try to read too much. There is really no need to read the beginning of the pressure since it always begins with the same timing. Basically, you have two options after IB the first hit; you can either backdash, or you can parry and start counter attacking. Little eddie isn't there after the second hit for a bit, so whatever you stick out will hit eddie if timed right. Another option is to mash pokes, but this is absolute last resort. The only goal with this approach is to hope you mess up his timing and hope you hit little eddie and he can't make the correct read on which combo to use. This works well every now and then, but I really don't think this should be used more than once a month or whatever because high level players will not miss combos regardless. It's a shanenigans that you can throw out once in awhile. I stated in another post earlier, make sure you know how to beat command throw, since it is just as dangerous as everything else. If you can't beat anythign else, at least learn to beat this consistently. There aren't that many setups, as I stated before. Another thing is that if eddie takes it to the air, don't hesitate to dp him out of the air. IB dp will only work in this instance though. In most other instances, the window in which you can reversal him, he won't be in range for you to hit him, so don't bother. Treat eddie like any other zoning character, he is no different. Only thing you need for this match up is really good FD usage and ability to IB reversal. Don't 236s since you can't afford to accidentally run into a drill. Whatever else you use in your game, just go nuts with it. Don't get too aggressive because active frames from eddie 2p and 2s are quite dangerous. Just a side note, the first guy aside, eddie isn't too bad to play against at all. The player was just far better in the first case. I actually found slayer to be a much more horrid match up, and I got a pretty damn good dose of it in Taiwan, considering everyone knew how to play him basically as secondary, or third, etc. I posted about slayer awhile back already, but the issue is that slayer's mid-range moves beat multiple pokes that Jam can stick out, and you can't 236s very much in this case either because dead-on-time and slayer's FB crushes it. So you have less ways of tension gain (can't use 236s, can't speed zone), and you have to spend more tension on FD to create openings to escape. First rule of thumb for anyone (or any character for that matter) playing against slayer though, is that you must be able to IB mappa punch consistently, and I mean nearly every single time.

[atryu]

Thank for your reply! hmmm... I really couldn't get away on the ground... (Didn't really rely on back dash though), the guy was constently drilling me on OKI and rushing down with his pressure setups... So you rekon I should block the drill, and back dash/parry the next hit into a counter? And I am not a big fan of the DP when eddie is in the air... as it will not Knock him down (unless you charged the DP.. but I dont.) if you go for a JS, JS, JHS, ryujin, you got (much) more damage in and a wall-bounce for a IAD HS / air throw mindgame or you can stick him up with a second charged ryuujin, and Go for JS, JS, JHS combo again. I might train my Jammy for vs. Eddie matches after work again! ^^

[Hintalove]

what is the best way to learn to IB? Just learn the other characters strings and practice ibing them in training mode? It's finally time to cross that bridge, because I think that beating ed and testy with out it is just plain impossible.

[ryokoalways]

I'm learning IB by playing as pot. You won't be able to do anything without IB on pot, and since you can't run away, there are more chances per match for you to practice it. Edit: Oh, and I mean you IB the first hit of little eddie's two hit draw-in move. You can also IB the drill, but it's not necessary. Point is to give yourself a larger window to work in your reversal. You can still reversal without IB, but It would make things a hell lot easier.

[R.D.K]

Yeah I see all Jam players stay in the Sky when they play Eddie. Its like a must or most Jam players get rid of little eddie as soon as he comes out!!!

[ryokoalways]

There is a difference between staying on the ground, and speed zoning on the ground. Edit: just to clarify, what I listed are additional options. Don't forget that blocking everything is still the best option.

[demongodcrush]

what are the odds o these working against Eddie, Slayer, and Chipp: 1. 6HS loop 2. 2D into 236+S~K, 236+K (charged) 3. Parry into 2S (CH) 4. Dash-parry into 2S(CH) (having a lot of trouble doing this one) 5. 623+K going down 6. 6P, 5HS(3HITS), 6HS, 6P ... loop 7. 5HS into 236+S~D 8. 623+ K (going down), 2S, 2HS(2hits), 236+S~D, Jamming loop Thx in advance

[ryokoalways]

What do you mean odds? They should all work pretty well if you don't spam them. Only thing you need to note is that unless you are really close to chipp, slide kick into charge kick won't work. You need to 2d and tk 236k.

[Da'Jam]

I'm needing some help with Baiken. It's not the counters that get me as much as the retarded air mats, they just screw up everything. I try to wait them out and get around them but i still get CH'd by them way to often.

[Zenmetsu]

Dashbreak (cancel your dash with FD) when approaching from the ground to avoid eating the mat at the last second, or purposely jump into them and instant block them in the air. Remember that you get another jump if you IB the mat, so you'll still have mobility options afterwards if you choose to do this. Sometimes it's better to purposely block the mat because it'll put you closer to Baiken for your next approach. In most situations, Baiken isn't guaranteed a follow up pressure string after you block one of her back dash mats unless she FRCs it or if you're really deep, so you can simply rush in and block them every once in a while without worry. Baiken can't do it forever so eventually you'll find a way in (and if she does do it forever then charge a card). If you can find a way to sneak in directly under her before the mat comes out, you can j.S her, or do f.S on the ground if she's low enough. There's a small blind spot between Baiken and the mat so use that to your advantage. Otherwise you shouldn't throw out an attack if the mat is already out because you're going to get CHed every time.

[Da'Jam]

Thanks, I played him today and did a lot better than previously by simply leaving her alone when she was back dash matting. She's just so safe whenever she does it. There doesn't seem as if there is any consistant hole in her spamming back dash mats, not that i didn't find a way to punish a few of them by AD'ing over them. Seems to me just being defensive and more reactive wins this matchup.

[Da'Jam]

Sorry for double posting, but i couldn't see my last post to edit it. Not sure why. I read the May matchup, but i played a may for the first time today and ended up just sitting there and blocking all day till i got input thrown cuz dolphin spam was rocking my balls. Is there really any way of out prioritizing any of the dolphins or any of her moves? I ended up losing most trades except a couple FB puffballs when she was riding a dolphin, stupid sweep beat everything of mine. Only played the may in like 3 matches and I got a few games but in the end it was painfully obvious I had no idea how to fight May. Really only saving grace i found in this matchup is that if i hit her 2 times I killed her, but that isn't really that saving when she can hit me 3 times and kill me and she's on the offensive 5x more than me cuz she spams dolphins.

[Hintalove]

Her dolphins all lose to parry > what ever you want, and 6p if she doesn't fb them. Once you take that away from her you have to deal with the actually scary stuff like her j.h and throw game. Bad mays will start sliding after they can't use dolphin spam any more, so just learn the distance to 2s to ch it for a free combo. Just be aware that her 3k beats all your slide options but splits kick, and more often than not will at least trade with that, leaving you knocked down, so blindly fbing *will* get you owned in this match up. Also remember, like millia, 2d > 236k connects, and leads to dead may.

[Da'Jam]

Thank you So you don't need the 236S~K between the 2d > 236K (charged) that is some sweet shit. I'll keep 6P more in mind next matchup and try to beat some stuff out rather than just blocking it.

[atryu]

I play a poke-and-guard game against Baiken to bait her counters. like rush-in, FD-guard, 2S/2P, guard again... once she does one of her counter in my guard -> 2S for a CH-stagger. As for her IAD tatami, there is not much but parry or guard you can do about it ... I sometimes try a dash-parry FS, JC, Air combo when I see her IAD back. I manage to get some FB puffballs in as well, but you need to push "D" soon enough to hit her before the tatami actually comes out. Against May, I just try to be patient... get a card for Ryuujin, and wait for the occasion to 2D, double-ryuujin into wall-slam. You can 6P the dolphin, but it got harder now as she can FB it and the timing is harder than in Slash IMO. If you can 6P a dolphin, chain with FS, 2HS, FB puffball. if you manage to get a knock down, there is nothing May can do against a 6HS at oki, so press with it, if she blocks -> 2S, 2D, Ryuujin!

[Hintalove]

Also, there was ka2 vs may(ketago?) in the last batch of gamechariot vids. Actually all the ka2 matches in that batch are hawt stuff, theres even a 2d frc combo :O

[miriel]

Alright let me make one thing perfectly clear before I post this: Not only am I new to the forums but also to the game, so bare with my noobishness if you will. Dash in 2HS(1 Hit), 6HS, HS, Dash in 2HS(2 Hit), 6HS, HS, Dash in 5K, 2HS(1 Hit), 6HS, HS I have a pretty good concept of the game and how to do stuff, but I just cannot do this. And, sadly enough, it's the first part that is screwing with me. It always seems to hit twice, either putting whoever i'm hitting behind me and sending them flying back, not hitting them high enough up on the wall for me to keep going, or randomly occasionally working. Do you have any idea what I could be doing wrong? EDIT: Nvm I got, now just having trouble getting that dash in there.

[atryu]

EDIT: Nvm I got, now just having trouble getting that dash in there.

timing son, timing! ^^

I had a VERY hard time doing that right too! ...lots of practice and try to "get" the "frame-moment" when you can "cancel" the 6HS~HS into a dash.

The tricky part is, the timing is different whether you wall-slammed with a 6HS~HS or with a 236+S~D.

then the second thing, is the Dash has to be short! do not "run", just hit 66~2S/5K/2HS

PS: try to post in the right topic (the Jam basics one) next time...^^, as this is a matchups topic.

I wanted to add one thing to the May matchup: I usually AA May with 2HS which leaves me with a air combo/jamming loop option. AA 2HS Works great against May!

[Hintalove]

2h　ｂｅａｔｓ　ｏｕｔ　ｈｅｒ　ｊ．ｈ　ｃｌｅａｎｌｙ？　Ｉ　ｃａｎ‘ｔ　ｒｅａｌｌｙ　ｓｅｅ　ｔｈａｔ，ｓｅｅｉｎｇ　ａｓ　ｈｅｒ　ｊ．ｈ　ｉｓ　ｌｉｋｅ，　ｏｍｇ　ｇｏｏｄ．

[atryu]

2h　ｂｅａｔｓ　ｏｕｔ　ｈｅｒ　ｊ．ｈ　ｃｌｅａｎｌｙ？　Ｉ　ｃａｎ‘ｔ　ｒｅａｌｌｙ　ｓｅｅ　ｔ ｈａｔ，ｓｅｅｉｎｇ　ａｓ　ｈｅｒ　ｊ．ｈ　ｉｓ　ｌｉｋｅ，　ｏｍｇ　ｇｏｏｄ．

not sure about that... got to test... I post here my personal experience in arcades, and for me 2HS works fine as a AA against May. (you have to hit her with the very end of Jam's foot though).

[Hintalove]

It's just that the anchor isn't part of her hitbox really, while Jam's legs are, and a ch isn't all that good because she's dealing way more damage.

[Hintalove]

So yeah... I know we've talked about it before, but Slayer? This matchup is decieveingly in his favor I think because it's hard for Jam to fight him at a distance where he's not over powering her, and he can stuff any long range tactic you have for establishing pressure easily. The only saving grace for this matchup is as long as he's not above you, you can take him in the air, but really, slayer has no real reason to jump all that much except to throw you or in combos, so it's moot. What do you guys use as oki on slayer? There is no way to stop him from bdcing is there? I think thats the single most annoying part about him. Bdcing and mappas are really the only thing that really I have trouble with. I just really suck at breaking my run into parry these days and that seems like the only surefire mappa killer.

[atryu]

Slayer is a nasty piece of dirt indeed! My best friend plays Slayer so I got a little experience with that match up. Like most of difficult matchups, you have to turtle your ass of all the way and wait for him to do something stupid. After a knock down, (I mean jam is OTG), you can wake up using the parry-FD option select. This is what works best for me. So if he does his unthrowable guard-break kick, he'll get pwned by parry, and if he goes for a 2K, you fd it... there is a high chance he'll mappa after that, so you can parry the mappa. it goes like 461+SK (just tap it once), 46 When slayer is otg, I usually use IAD HS / 236+P, HS to cross him... then you mix it up with a IAD->623+K (going down) or a 236+P, back-AD, 623+K going down. (it will beat his AA kick clean and you can chain with 2S, 2HS, 236+S~D -> jamming loop) Also, like you said, Slayer does not have any options if you jump over him in the air, so High Jumps (you can add a little mix up with 236+P and AD here) trying to cross him with a HS. I usually high jump, and 236+P / AD right before he does his AA kick and cross him up with a HS or a 214+K (in the case of AD cross). Also, this can sound a little stupid, but I use 632146+S overdrive to finish him when I have a full tension gauge! ...if he is in the middle of some teleport - dandy step, he's gonna eat it all the way... if he blocks, then just RC it and throw! IMO, the keys to win this versus are: - Cross up HS - Parry (basically, if you se him dandy steping, you just do 46462S... it should parry pretty much anything that comes out from his dandy-step, even the crossed-mappa!) - 632146+S to finish him off EDIT: oh yeah... and as he has 183'839 different ways of high-low mix ups, FD is your friend when he goes into one of his pressings. (to keep him away from a counter 2HS I think... the ground kick when he stands up with the bats and which lauches at CH)

[demongodcrush]

Help!! I'm having soooo much trouble getting in on POT. I play against a very annoying POT player who sits in one spot and instant/faultless blocks all my mix ups and buster all my grab attempts.

[ryokoalways]

I don't see how you could have trouble getting in on pot. Basic Jam strategy and good height control with AD 214 k owns pot. Not even his 6p will stop you (although 2h will rip your face off in that instance, but if you don't whore it out, he won't dare because cross up jh owns 2h). There is nothing much to this match up. Have a balanced attack from ground and air and just out execute him and you should win. Defensively, it's just something that you need to get use to. Learn to reversal backdash on wake up so you don't get locked down by meaty slide head. The occasional run into tk ryujin is also very nice damage. If used right, it almost always hits. Love pot's giant hit box. Once in awhile, spam 6h at one-two character length is also very funny and effective. Edit: Actually, if the guy is buster happy, just gatling into 6h every single time. 5k 6h, 2p 6h, 5s 6h, whatever. But for the love of god 1. Do not 6h on wake up if he has tension. Aegis is dangerous, and he can do that on reaction easy. If you can use the bait timing one, go ahead, but the problem with the bait is that he can buster you before you get anything else off. Just be a little cautious. 2. Do not 5h(3) > 6h, ever. I play pot to improve my IB, and I play against another Jam sometimes. IB 6h into buster is quite possibly the easiest guaranteed reversal in the game. And I do not believe you can get out another 6h before his buster activates, so... don't ever do that. Too much time for him to buffer the inputs.