[GGAC] Jam Match-up Thread

[CrimsonDisaster]

I agree with how he dispursed the characters, but I presonally feel that may/test/robo are not in Jam's favor. I wouldn't go as far as to say she is at disadvantage(at least not vs robo), but she is deffinately not clearly at advantage either. I also disagree about baiken being up there with our hardest matchups. Test gives me much more trouble than baiken as long as I'm playing smartly. The only thing she really has going for her are some decent air moves and every thing ending in knock down.

Robo has a bunch of unpuffballable shit that all funnels into massive damage, and May has the hardslash button and her combos go forever on Jam(damn her light weight and yet massive hitbox >.>). May easily outdamages Jam in that match.

I'd say you're overestimating Testament's ability to keep Jam off him or start his offense against her. 5.5/4.5 is still pretty close, too. Sounds right, though.

Baiken outpokes Jam with f.S and 2S among other things. You can't really get away with most of Jam's frame advantage hijinks (or puffballs out of combos) either. It's a small advantage that Baiken gets to work with.

Robo gets frame trapped and then explodes (very simplistic answer, more happens than that). Has a few moves to keep this from happening (5H, or trade hits with uppercut) and he has some other stuff. His damage is really good off of some things as well. Not as good as Testament at keeping Jam out, but Robo is better at getting Jam off "him." Jam randomly dies after like on CH L2 missile/uppercut though, but that's the case with like every character.

May "easily" outdamages Jam? She needs to score some pretty major counter-hits or land a command throw to really hurt Jam, Jam just needs to get tension/charge and land a hit. It's not easy for either of them to necessarily land that match ending hit, but both of them are likely to kill the other off that one hit.

Jam has slightly better ways to land that silly damage (FB puffball, whatever into charge kick) since she can parry jH and such. Like Flash said, if you're not attacking, what is May going to do? Whiff 5H all day long? Do easily parried/anti-aired jump-ins? Patience wins this fight. May doesn't get easy damage on you if you're not pushing buttons all the time.

[Sir Phobos]

I think that Jam does pretty well against Baiken in AC. I play that matchup against Hellmonkey's Baiken every now and then, and it seems like Jam has quite a few advantages. Baiken is usually on the other side of the screen, airdashing back with j.S or tatamis. Typically, all Jam has to do is get above Baiken's max height in the air by superjumping and doing 236P at the apex of your jump, then airdashing toward Baiken and coming down with j.H. But, if you have 25%, all you have to do when you see Baiken jump backwards is FB Puffball. It'll go under her jump and hit her before a tatami comes out as long as you did it fast enough. As long as you were in front of Baiken when she began her IAD backwards, the tatami should fall right in front of Jam. As soon as you see Baiken leave the ground, it's OK to use a FB. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to use FB Puffballs unless Baiken is in the air. She gets a free combo if she blocks it and counters. On the ground, if you ever manage to get close by scoring a knockdown, Jam is almost always able to block counters by ending a short gatling in 2P. Like, 5K-2P, 6K-2P, or 6P-2P. I've even blocked Baku before, and that shit is mad quick. You can punish Baiken's 412S and 412P counters if you block them with a 2D into 236S-K, then charged 236K or whatever. A 2D should also hit the 412K counter where she goes behind you. If she does the 412H crossup counter, I'm not totally sure but jumping back with j.S might hit her out of it. After a while, the Baiken player should stop countering your short gatlings, and you can start using tick throws after a blocked 2P. If you're in the corner, and you want to FRC your throw into Jam's 6H-H loop, start with 2H-6H after the FRC. Baiken flies up really high if you use 5S-2H-6H for some reason.

[Hintalove]

How am I underestimating testament? As long as he can get you away for long enough to get a tree under him he can start doing what ever he wants as he forces you to disarm traps before being able to attack him. His forward beast is retarded when used as a reversal. This is also another one of those matchups where Jam just happens to be like the perfect weight/size to get comboed forever, and said combo starts out of just about any hit he can possibly hit you with. Other than that, I agree it's hard for test to get out once you're on him. All he's got is warrant and what ever giant purple poison skull is called, with poison skull being the reversal of choice. He's also got forward beast if you give him a frame any where. I think I have trouble with test/may/all the characters I mentioned specifically because I play a very american style gg where I like to be pressing, and I expect counter hits instead of steadfast defense. So especially in the case of test, being overly agressive is suicide. May is a different story because really the only way you can get a hit on her is by making something of her mistakes. If she dolphins from across the screen, or misses an frc on the hoop, or does 3k at the wrong time. It should also be noted that may can use her jh as a safejump, even if parried she can land and block. Not saying they use it at that height all the time, but just throwing that out there. Really, there is no reason you should ever get ch 2h'd, but if you do... gg. Out of May/test/robo I am by far the worst at dealing with May, so again, I might be biased. May is just a mystery to me and the only times I really win is when I just sit there, look for her fuck up, and blast her into the wall. I'm going to make a point to play the local may a crapton the next chance I get. What bugs me about robo is when they turtle. All of his normals are pretty much amazing. 2s/f.s are awesome. 2k/5k is awesome. 6p is awesome. 5h is just retardedly awesome(don't ever 6h where you shouldn't. ever.) and these combined with his strength at building meter give him retarded damage potential. If you get ch dped, you die. Hell, if you randomly eat a sweep and he has like 50%+ meter, you die. Oh, and if baiken is poking on the ground, just kill her >.> Baiken match: Get a charge, attack/defend intellegently, sweep, kill her. Any thing else is just gravy.

[ryokoalways]

I think you are not thinking the correct way towards a match up. You are really only thinking about the moves that opponent has. What about your own? What is the opponent thinking once you have 25% tension? Use that to your advantage because once Jam has 25% tension, anyone playing Jam will become more passive. The trade off is simply too far in Jam's favor. There is nothing new to traps, it's been the same since slash. Disarm them slowly and eventually find a way in. Also, note that Testament's AA sucks ass. 6p isn't used because it is more of a low type AA, and 6k(I think?) recovery is horrid. Bait one correctly and it's gg, And your reason for May is unfounded I believe, because all matches is who makes the first bad move. There is no such thing as you can't hit any character. If that's the instance, then the other player is just outplaying you. For robo, 5s is nice, so is 2k (only because Jam's front foot is up, so it's easy to get in deep against Jam in that instance, ie, low recovery time for robo), but other than that, not much. 6p isn't that good. 5h only works with tension. 2s isn't much either. 5k is only great on wake up, and even then it's better to let a bazooka fly first, so I'd be more worried about that. And if you think getting hit by robo means death, how do you think all the players that play against Jam feel? >.>

[FlashMetroid]

Snip

your exactly right about all 4

How am I underestimating testament? As long as he can get you away for long enough to get a tree under him he can start doing what ever he wants as he forces you to disarm traps before being able to attack him.

May is a different story because really the only way you can get a hit on her is by making something of her mistakes.

What bugs me about robo is when they turtle.

Testament

1. its alot harder for him to keep you out then it is for you to get in

2. 25% tension and now you have complete control of the match and he cant do shit

3. disarming traps is a peice of cake when your a pixie character

May actually its the complete opposite Jam has to make the mistake for may to get damage you just wait and eventually she has to make the move becuase you have mixup she doesnt

Robo HAS to turtle in the beggining of the match becuase he has no meter that is why you rush him from the start his pokes arent gonna beat yours all he has is 5hs and DPs to save him from Jam

[Kicks]

I don't think May has ever been a problem for Jam in the slightest. Every move that she has, Jam has a counter for it. This is important to remember in all matches, but if you think this way against May, you'll do great. By "this way" I mean--thinking about what your opponent's best move would be. Or, often when playing against May, the "standard" move. If you see her move quickly, attempt a parry. Because she has no real mixups from far away, you can just be safe and poke the crap out of her. Then parry everything else and don't let her get close enough to mixup. Parry beats all her good airs and they are very predictable. far Slash beats dolphins especially with a parry buffered in block beats the slide 214K keeps her honest by controlling space and it beats the slide and some jump ins and run ins, though 214k has hard time beating dolphins Now I'm gonna have to disagree a little about Test and Robo as well. Robo seems a lot different in AC and the match vids I've seen prove it so I think I can actually agree with it, just seems like he is so safe and it's like the Jam vs May matchup only reversed. For Testament, I humbly request a more detailed explanation of the matchup. Tonight I just could not deal with him. I'm only a few months experienced with GG, but I was seriously, disgracefully SHUT DOWN against him. He would just backdash tons, then put blood above and infront of him, then plant a tree. He'd would either air throw me, or use the attack from either trap to force a quick mixup, then backdash and do it again. Even when I predicted perfectly, I felt like my attacks and approaches were stuffed. Any help would be appreciated.

[CrimsonDisaster]

You just need more experience playing against Testament in general. You're letting him get space he doesn't deserve, for one thing. The first post already has a pretty good start for you to work with against Testament. Also Robo's "safety" isn't dangerous to you at all at the start of the match. No tension = crappy uppercut, crappy missiles, crappy oki, 5H is hella unsafe. He's not keeping you out anytime soon without some really lucky guesses. Once you're in, make him either have to FD to push you off him (which means he's back to square one, ie. he sucks and you can just get back in) or get frame trapped safely till he explodes (which you can wall loop off of if you're really crazy lol). Robo-Ky is the only character in the game who can be guardbroken. Remember that, 'cuz Robo-Ky players do. Anyhow. Random thought that I haven't messed with yet... could you buffer parries while rushing Testament down? Like, in whatever gaps you might have, add a parry attempt in there as well. Not gonna make it free against Testament, but it might cut down on how many random EXE beasts you eat. Main problems I'm already seeing with this idea... the beast hits kinda late and it usually trades because you hit them as it's coming out. Doesn't do anything about Warrant either, but Warrant is pretty easy for Jam to bait since almost all of her strings are safe against Warrant one way or another. Might be more extra effort than it's worth. I'll mess with it the next time I play against a Testament I guess.

[ryokoalways]

anytime you FD break it's an auto buffered parry. Also just to note (I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before), at the right distance, Jam can pick up enough speed and run straight through exe beast. Jam is the fastest character in the game after all (Not the one with the best acceleration, but she has the highest max speed). If you manage to clear all the webs, trees and exe beast alone can't stop Jam. Just run through everything, and buffer a parry somewhere. Mix that in with your cross ups and traps, very easy to get in on testament.

[atryu]

I have the most difficult time playing against Testa as well... (I find him even more annoying than Eddie...). some stuff that works somehow for me: - JHS gets rid of webs too, and cross-up. (when getting rid of webs when testa is on the ground, I use JHS.. and when he is in the air, I use JS). - Random TK-ryuujin is good! ^^ (but don't abuse it though! once per match, he'll eat it for sure CH!) This is what I have a really hard time with: - when I am otg, he comes close, puts a web over me, and throws! I just don't know what to do! I eat that every single fucking time!!! - The beast that hits behind in his string... I always get ownd... like, there is no gap in his string to hit a CH? ...is this an unblockable?

[CrimsonDisaster]

S EXE Beast? There's a gap when he does that, though good luck getting him with anything (Slayer can DoT him, maybe you can dash super?). Or parry/SB. ...or block.

[atryu]

Ok, so you can parry it? ...but as it hits behind you, do you have to "reverse" your parry motion? 64 instead of 46 (suppose Jam is facing right). Sorry, I dont really get it... I always have the impression it's an unblockable.. as the beats hits behind and testy hits on the other side at the same time... I usually guard the beast but get hit by testa.

[CrimsonDisaster]

It doesn't count as hitting from the other side. Block away from Testament. Parry facing Testament.

[Hintalove]

If you IB the sweep you can do all sorts of shenanegins I think, but easiest would just be parry it. Don't try to jump, you will get killed. Also, never try to trade/beat forward exe beast, you will die.

[Da'Jam]

Er...the backwards Beast still hits "in the front" just looks like it hits behind or else Testie would make Eddie look fair.

[atryu]

Thanks for the input... but I played against Testies a lot this weekend... I don't know, nothing works! ...the only way I found to defeat testa, i the RTSD ALL the fucking way not letting him a single chance of putting anything out. (I could win like that a few times). But if I get countered or knocked down once, I lose the round. (><)

[Kicks]

I have the most difficult time playing against Testa as well... (I find him even more annoying than Eddie...). some stuff that works somehow for me:

- JHS gets rid of webs too, and cross-up. (when getting rid of webs when testa is on the ground, I use JHS.. and when he is in the air, I use JS).

- Random TK-ryuujin is good! ^^ (but don't abuse it though! once per match, he'll eat it for sure CH!)

This is what I have a really hard time with:

- when I am otg, he comes close, puts a web over me, and throws! I just don't know what to do! I eat that every single fucking time!!!

- The beast that hits behind in his string... I always get ownd... like, there is no gap in his string to hit a CH? ...is this an unblockable?

I mentioned in the previous post that you can 214K the same time he tries to sexy beast (the behind one). If he keeps rushing, you'll hit him. You can also try jump back insta-faultless defense. Parry also works nicely.

You can also parry the web on wakeup. If you're playing AC can't you break the throw? Also, if you expect the throw, stand up so the web activates and you'll be in hit stun and his throw won't work. Unless you get ticked lol.

I guess I'll ask a more specific question. What tactics are good for getting a testament to attack. What tactics are good for when he's standing over a spot where a tree is planted.--are there specific moves that work well? Super jump seems ok, because you come down from a higher spot so the tree comes out earlier. j.P>j.S>JC seems pretty good too as a block string in this situation. I've also messed with cancelling jump attacks into 214K. Only good if you know when he's gonna attack and timing has to be awesome. I want to mess with jump in air dash back>214K. That way you activate the tree, backdash out of it while also dodging any of his attacks, then come back in with a decent overhead that could punish his attack or leave you with not too horrible frames.

[Hintalove]

As long as you deal with air nets properly, you can use sj up over the tree > air dash back to saftey to get rid of trees. You can also just sj and air dash over him too. Other than that, the best way to get at a test that is sitting on a tree(normal one) is empty jump and throw, or sj ad property choujin throw. You can also jc attacks into blocking if you want to go that route. Getting a testament to attack you is theoretically impossible I'd assume. Jam beats him out up close and he is on cruise control for victory when he is zoning you out so any smart testament really wont rush in on a Jam unless they have a knock down. Jam's usual provocation of the full screen charge just gets owned by beast so really unless you have a massive life advantage there is no reason for test to bust his balls attacking you directly. One good thing to remember is the nets actually eat active frames of attacks, giving test this psuedo invincibility, especially be careful when dealing with air confrontations with air nets out.

[Kicks]

As long as you deal with air nets properly, you can use sj up over the tree > air dash back to saftey to get rid of trees. You can also just sj and air dash over him too. Other than that, the best way to get at a test that is sitting on a tree(normal one) is empty jump and throw, or sj ad property choujin throw. You can also jc attacks into blocking if you want to go that route.

Getting a testament to attack you is theoretically impossible I'd assume. Jam beats him out up close and he is on cruise control for victory when he is zoning you out so any smart testament really wont rush in on a Jam unless they have a knock down. Jam's usual provocation of the full screen charge just gets owned by beast so really unless you have a massive life advantage there is no reason for test to bust his balls attacking you directly.

One good thing to remember is the nets actually eat active frames of attacks, giving test this psuedo invincibility, especially be careful when dealing with air confrontations with air nets out.

AH SNAP! Like Dizzy huh! Thanks for the input, man. It's been helpful.

I also need some help dealing with Robo's slide. What's a good move to beat it or punish it? 214K works, but if I'm too close, he slides under and i get destroyed. 2S works pretty well too, but my timing is awful. 236SS works nicely as well... when it hits. Which is tough, but at least it's safer. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

General Millia tips would help a ton as well!

[Hintalove]

if he's using 2k to deal with you rushing in, all you need to do is use 2s. The trick is using it much earlier than you would think you should, so he slides into the active part and you get a clean ch. The trick is having him in your attack hitboxes while your attack is active and he's still not hitting you. It's kinda hard to understand, but just mess around with it. This theory also applies to a lot of other characters and poking situations, so understanding exactly your range and speed vs your opponent is very important. Just don't get hit by robo and you should be ok >.>

[Kicks]

Cool man, i know exactly what you mean. I'll work on the 2S like I know I should. So you're jumping in or air dashing in on Millia and you know she's gonna do c.HS... What to do? Dive kick and non-AD 214K seem ok. also... Turtle Ky is starting to get me. Any tips? (I think 2D on wakeup is hilarious vs vapor thrust though) Final quick question... do vapor thrust and volcanic viper have definite invincibility on startup frames? --like the very first frames or can a meaty 5K stuff them on wakeup?

[Hintalove]

They both work as invincible reversals, so meaties aren't going to stuff them, however, volcanic viper comes up from the ground unlike a lot of dps(jam/ky/ect..) so you can't really get under it with moves like 2k like you can with the other dps. Basically what you have to do with sol is do safe jump ins until he doesn't want to risk dping any more. As for turtle ky, I have no idea. The kys I fight don't turtle at all, and I don't really see how one could, considering how one poorly timed stun edge can lead to eating a fb puffball and all. The kys I fight all tend to try to stay up on me and do those big endlessish guard strings.

[Da'Jam]

Local guy has a strong Ky, but this matchup is really pretty free as long as you don't jump into his incredibly strong anti-air game. Just stick to the ground and abuse 2S and 6P and it won't be hard to reck his dreams of victory. Also if you attack in the air only use a fairly "high" IAD-214K as it beats his faster anti-air options and if you do it well he most likely won't have time to time a 2HS to catch you. Ky's dmg is terrible in this game and his mixup is so poor it makes god cry. Only poke you gotta watch out for is an early HS of his cuz it can wreck your dreams if you get CH by it after he jacked up your guard bar and turn this into an actual match. Really only strong mixup options he has are his fireball crossup setups which can be hard to time the block switch sometimes, but all in all not to bad. Just realize that with his air-FB trap he has really strong oki so just let him do what he wants till you have room to move again. Stun Edges are HIGHLY punishable (non-FRC'd) in this game so he shouldn't just be throwing them out. Hell you can 236S~D through them for a free wallloop if you expect one, and if they are in the air just end him as hitting him with a 236S~D on reaction is easy. Ky is one bag of simple tricks you just have to get used to. His Oki is pretty much inescabable so just block . Than wreck his dreams with your superior priority. Er..if he turtles throw him? Er...turtle in GG ? There's "defensive play" but nothing i'd classify in GG as turtling that is actually good. Your rush down is very strong and you only need 3 combo's to end his existance so it shouldn't be that hard considering you outpoke him as long as your in range.

[ryokoalways]

Another thing to keep in mind is you can parry the first hit of CSE and 6p through the rest. Don't do it everytime, but make sure he knows you have it. Ky will have to surrender wake up pressure because the trade off is severely in your favor.

[Hintalove]

Does that trick work on anything else? Like venom charged balls or anything? I never thought to try 6ping through the last 2 hits. The big thing you really have to watch out for in the Ky matchup is his throw game and not getting predictable with anything. He can 6p the FB, or stun dipper. Its very helpful to learn where you are in blockstun and where you arent, as well as learning to parry his 6h when you see it. Speaking of Venom, what is the best response to Venoms oki `throw a ball out, jump and hit it so the ball is meaty and then either cross up or not` bs? I find if I just plain block it and push him off I can usually get out, but　there is no reversal option out right? I hate that set up and suck at blocking it consistantly :\

[CrimsonDisaster]

You can parry the ball, but the mixup after it is still kinda hard to block. But IIRC you can parry -> 6P/c.S if they airdash for the overhead/crossup. If they go low... IIRC your parry should take place before he lands so you can probably hit him before it matters either way, but I haven't played against Venom in a long time. Also parry -> burst cancel buys you some time to react.