NEW I-NO General FAQ and Update Thread: No more random threads all over the place!

[Shinjin]

So I was playing around a lot with I-No at the end of Accent Core. And with the release of +R I decided to go through some of the common combo starters on all of the cast. I have attached an excel-document to this post with my results. Feel free to comment and/or use the template for future Guilty Gear endeavours!

ACPR-IN-v0.11.zip

I am not sure if this is what you meant with "Help me test stuff ppl!!!" mynus, but hopefully it is to use for someone at least!

Come to think of it, I should have gone through on what members of the cast maximum distance 2k 6p f.S combos into 669 jS jH (and preferably into P-dive midscreen)... with f.S buff and airdash buffs this is a really useful tool (although damage output goes down from these combos). Oh well, for the next version!!!

For anyone that wants to discuss +R I-No, just pm me with your Skype-details!

Cheers!

Edit: there might be characters that are marked as "Does not work on" that actually the combo starters work on, but might just have higher demands on execution (resulting in me opting to not go for them).

Edited August 19, 2013 by Shinjin

[Essay]

The latest object of my testing in +R:

Midscreen HS.Stroke > jc(9) > P.Dive > airdash > freestyle

Works as above: Anji, Axl, Bridget, Chipp, Eddie, HOS, Johnny~*, Faust, I-No, Justice, Kliff, Ky~, May, Millia, Potemkin, Robo~, Slayer, Sol, Testament, Venom, Zappa

Works if High-Jump Cancelled: Dizzy (she's the only one for which it seems required), Testament, and probably more

Corner only (wiffs midscreen): A.B.A, Jam

~ Less delay on the P.Dive than on the rest of the cast

* Follow-ups limited?

Notes: Neither tiger-knee nor hold the P.Dive. Behaves a little differently on counterhit, but the combo will still be perfectly salvageable.

I was surprised how close to universal this was.

@Shinjin: I'll PM you my details.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Essay
Clarity

[mynus]

My Skype is mynusdono.

[mynus]

So myself and the other NYC TSB crew were wondering since release why we were doing so much ridiculous damage from our combos in +R, even when many moves for much of the cast had new proration values added to them.

Basically, and this goes especially for Ino and Anji the GB+ values for many moves have been buffed, and it is easier for her to keep constant pressure on an opponent with tools like 2 air dashes, JC STBT, FB note, f.S spam/trap, and HCL hitbox buff. +R punishes you severely for being too defensive, and rewards the attacker even more if their mixup involves a preceding block string (ie. Dizzy, Axl).

When I initially saw the change list and the proration nerfs they were adding I was skeptical to why that was done, but I totally understand now. It would have been like XX damage Ino all over again if they didn't.

Already in +R 345 dmg for 50 meter or 232 dmg off of a low (25% meter) for Ino are a bit much but Im not on the receiving end of it so Lolz.

(Testament Dummy:

345 dmg is off of FB note oki > j.S/2S starter.

232 dmg is off of FB note > 2k starter > kyougen loop.)

[TheRealBobMan]

Ok, **** it, I'm paying for the game a second time at a markup. I'm not willing to wait if this is going to turn into the PSN launch again. How long did we have to wait for that? Like 3-4 months past when they said? **** it. I should save monies since I'm getting laid off in like a month, but **** it, this is GG.

Are you getting any matches in so far? I'm really curious about the Zappa, Axl, May, and Chipp matchups. Are we getting new threads for +R, or are we just going to add stuff in to the old ones?

[mynus]

Haven't got to play any of those chars yet but we do have 2 May players and 2 Zappas. Those players we haven't sessions with yet but will be at TSB this weekend in NYC. We play and have been mashing on the weekends and I know Zidane, SKD, Biscuits have been mashing on netplay.

You guys shouldn't fall behind, you don't know how long it will take to come out. It's gonna be like ~$25 to buy again for JP PSN but it'll be worth it trust me.

[TheRealBobMan]

I went ahead and got it. I guess I'll spend this weekend posting relevant information in between ejaculations if I can muster the strength.

Holy shit I don't get f.S all the time in combos when I don't want it! HOLY SHIT 2S COMBOS INTO 5H FROM FURTHER THAN POINT BLANK. HOLY BUTTFUCKING DICKBALLS BATMAN I CAN DO COMBOS OFF OF FB DIVE!!!!!!!!!11111111one

And now I'm going to drag my PS3 to an arcade for everyone to enjoy.

[Diar]

Anybody know any reliable Dust combos? or does the nerf to Dust really not warrant the usage?

[mynus]

Anybody know any reliable Dust combos? or does the nerf to Dust really not warrant the usage?

Dust is really bad now at 29 frames dude but in the corner her ID combo is: 5D > j.S > VCL > VCL > 5S > kyougen loop > knockdown.

Or 5D > j.H > kyougen (whiff) > VCL > VCL > 5S > kyougen loop > knockdown.

Midscreen is 5D > VCL > 66VCL > relaunch > whatever

Or

5D > j.H > kyougen (whiff) > relaunch > whatever.

[Pestilence]

2 things.

1st Is this out on JP XBLA??? no ps3 :/

2nd what is kyougen loop refering to?

[TheRealBobMan]

Sorry, it's only JP PSN right now.

Dive loop.

Goddamn, I really miss having good airthrow range.

And on another note, May's 63214S is ****ing hilarious now. Wall-bounce off of each hit. Do 6H > cancel into OHK before startup > 1 hit of 63214S > Deluxe Textile Bomber (whiff) > relaunch for lulz. She's full of gimmicks and isn't completely braindead anymore since there's no dolphin loop and her command throw kinda sucks, so I might pick her back up to troll casuals and online play. Now she has guaranteed stun combos off of starters that aren't CH 6P that do like 60% damage, so this matchup is probably still going to be hell.

[Essay]

Goddamn, I really miss having good airthrow range.

Yeah, me too. In particular, I'm getting dash>airthrow on backdashes less consistently than before. I've gone from getting it 100% of the time on Potemkin's, to less-than-half the time. :/ Oh well, time to explore better option selects.

Now she has guaranteed stun combos off of starters that aren't CH 6P that do like 60% damage, so this matchup is probably still going to be hell.

Definitely not hell so far from my experience. Sniping with the new bit of invincibility on force-break dive helps make the May think twice about getting too predictable in the air, and the added untech time on our K.Dive has lets us knock down off of higher combos than before. Once you get used to the new distances and setups she'll go for OHK from, you've got no shortage of ways to take your feet off the ground and punish her. (I haven't had to deal with my local May using OHK's wiff FRC yet though, so I might have to pick my punishes eventually.)

She indeed does look more interesting to play with/against now at least, so troll away! The changes to Baiken are having the same effect on me, but, god-dayum, she's probably going to be a time-sink.

[mynus]

Since when does May not have dolphin loop? She still has both midscreen vertical loop and corner horizontal loop man...

[TheRealBobMan]

Oh yeah, forgot that the 6P loop still has dolphins in it. Didn't realize she could still do the SVD loop though. I see it used in combos sometimes, but never looped. *Shrug* I guess I haven't been watching enough +R footage.

I'm loving the changes to FB dive, but I need to practice some follow ups out of it to optimize what I get. It clashed Sol's j.P once when I was playing with a friend, so that's something to watch out for in that matchup, since his j.P beats a ton of I-No's moves already when he's going air to ground on you (including 6P!). Even S and K dive lose to it at times when landing on him from above where you would think his hitbox would be.

Some notes from playing against Sol: FB Sidewinder gives him better ability to get damage where he normally wouldn't, and gives him some burst-bait potential (intentionally float I-No too high for the clean hit so he'll land out of her burst, but can still Clean Hit anyway), but I-No's f.S is safer to bait stuff with since it recovers faster, HCL can take the place of gimmicky VCL poking at times while covering more options than VCL does, we can combo into 5H from further away, and we have FB Note. In this matchup, his buffs seems to affect him more after he's landed a hit, whereas our buffs seem to help us land a hit without getting hit. Also, while Sol's damage output is still pretty high, I wasn't taking as much damage in combos quite as consistently as before.

Do you guys know if the change to Slashback is still there? At one point they made it so that if you successfully SB'd a move, the window for success increases to 6 frames for 30 frames, similar to how failure means you can't block for 30 frames. I'm just not sure if that's still there since the other changes were reverted.

[jackandrew88]

Hello,

For +r I've decided to pick up my favorite character (Baiken was more intuitive to me in AC).

I realize I-no is sort of a make it up as you go character, but outside of hcl 6frc6 combos, I was wondering if there was a high damage bnb that people practiced (possibly on a specific character) that they used as a starting point? I'm finding it difficult to have a sort of goal to get in the high damage loops espeically because +r probably changed some of the combos up.

Any help is appreciated!

[TheRealBobMan]

It wont be the same in +R, but in AC you could hit 50% combos without spending meter off of a CH Stroke(S). It'd cause untechable float (I don't think that's changed)) that you could then link into hoverdash > j.D > late VCL and then link that into c.S > whatever, which would usually put them in the corner and let you go for her meterless dive loops. These combos should still work, but Stroke(S) now prorates 80%, so the damage wont be as good. Stroke(H) should still lead to really high damage since it launches (no need to use 6P to launch which forces 90% prorate), only prorates 90%, and will let you corner push with stuff like jump cancel (it does that now) > Pdive > airdash > whatever for meterless corner damage.

While I-No still hits really high damage in +R, she got 5 new prorates (2 forced). You have fewer starters you can go for big damage off of, especially when not spending meter. CH 6H works but it's somewhat positioning dependent if you don't want to use HCL/VCL frcs. I think CH Kdive would still work. During the floorslide something like hoverdash j.S > dj.S > dj.H > whatever, or 5H > jumping whatever would probably work.

Mynus, Honnou, and Buckles/Pestilence should have better info than I do since I'm still relatively bad at combos. Just remember that you want to hit with high-damage high-level moves early when applicable. That Stroke(S) > j.D > VCL does a ton of damage in AC by itself because you're doing 40 > 40 > 45 before the scaling really starts to kick in.

I'd imagine that despite the 80% forced prorate, FBdive could lead to easy combos with good damage. You can TK it out of c.S and 5H, so you can bypass the 90% forced prorate on 6P, and go into corner VCL loops depending on positioning. Experiment with that.

[jackandrew88]

Thanks rbm!

Those links worked for me and are helping get into some satisfying combos... I-no seems to be easier to use then AC for some reason.

[Vosetri]

At this point I can get CL frc airdash really consistently, but when I try to do j.S > VCL after it I tense up and do 6FRC6 too fast almost every time. I've spent a couple days working on it and trying to get used to it but even in training mode I constantly fuck it up. I can even 6FRC6 > j.S fine most of the time, but whenever I try to go for the VCL after I mess up my inputs. I'm getting so frustrated with it which is just making it worse.

As well as now when I try to do 63214[8]6 I instead do a full 360 motion which makes my TK HCL happen late a lot of the time. Did anyone else have these problems when they were learning I-No?

[Rhannmah]

It takes a lot of adjustment. Another hurdle is going from training mode to real matches, which makes your performance drop a hell of a lot because you're not in a controlled environment. Keep in mind that you're trying to learn some of the hardest stuff in any fighting game ever, so it's gonna need a lot of patience and effort to get consistently.

[Vosetri]

Thanks, it just feels really bad because I feel like I passed the biggest hurdle and now I'm stuck on fairly simple stuff.

[TheRealBobMan]

I still mess up on the j.S > VCL at times. It feels like my muscle memory brain-farts or something, and I mess up when it comes to timing the j.S or doing the VCL after going into j.S (I either drop the j.S or the VCL). If I try to do like j.H > VCL, or just j.S > j.H > land > c.S/5K, it works, and if I do the 6FRC6 > FFVCL it works. This is the kind of thing that just needs more practice. Keep it up, you're almost there!

[Mr.Minionman]

k, I'll shoot; 3 questions:

Is the AC combo thread still a good resource for ACR combos?

Trying to this combo (hover dash j.s, 2k, 5s©, 6p, 5hs JC j.hs S dive) on Ky, but it's pushing him too far away for the j.HS to connect. Am I doing something wrong?

And what are my options for pressuring against the backthrow OS? Mixups I'm trying have been falling into somewhat of a hitch; If I go for an empty jump throw/low, I'm getting grabbed first, and I'm also getting grabbed after blocked j.S'/j.H' close to the ground. Sooo I need I need to figure out the options to prevent this.

[TheRealBobMan]

1. Yes. I-No combos are sort of unique in that you learn strings of 2-3 hits, and then string those together into bigger combos. Because of this, each of those individual strings is still important, even if one might not link into another the same way anymore, and even if there are better options now.

An example of a major difference would be that if you hit someone crouching with say j.S > c.S, and they're the type that wont get hit by HCL with their crouching hitbox, you might do 2H > Stroke(S) > 5K in AC, which probably wont work now because they'll get pushed out and staggered instead of floated by Stroke. In some cases you could still go into 2D > HCL > 6FRC6 > follow up, but when that fails you still have a reset off of the stagger, or could maybe 2S > HCL if they don't shake out.

Otherwise, her combo routes are still there, though some are improved. The second airdash means you can do j.S > j.H > Pdive > dash j.H > Pdive > dash j.H > FFVCL/Kdive/Pdive depending on what you want. It also means she can maybe do character specific j.D > dj.H > Pdive > dash j.H > FFVCL stuff.

2. It might be timing, or maybe that's corner specific? I would think you can get that one. If not, try dropping the 2K and just do j.S > c.S > 6P > 5H > j.H.

3. If you're getting grabbed out of j.S/j.H, you're probably waiting too long to go into pressure or are doing them too high off the ground. You can also space yourself further away to reduce the risk of being thrown depending on the matchup (probably wont help vs Pot/Justice). Also, make sure you learn the timing to do j.H right after dash startup so you can immediately land into throw/low. If you're dashing in and falling, you're probably giving them too much time to react. Then work on mixing in 2P > tick throw, 2P > 2S, and 2P > 2H. I'd go into detail on using them but my work break is over.

*Edit*

Ok, I got 5 more minutes. I'll elaborate on #3.

So, if you do j.S or j.H such that they connect and then you walk forward throw, you're telegraphing really hard. You can get away with this, but more often than not you'll let them throw you because it's really easy for them to just tap H to keep you honest while they're holding 4 from blocking high. You need to go into pressure more often and rarely use this setup for throw in order to get this throw more consistent.

If you cancel your dash into j.H such that it whiffs and you immediately land, it's a very strong mixup. You leave yourself somewhat open, but if you've appropriately scared them into blocking, you've got 2K/2S for lows, 2P > tickthrow/frametrap, straight up tick-throw (for the reason I mentioned above, don't do this too much), block (baiting DPs), or even something silly like VCL (bait throw, can cross up if done right!) or Fortissimo. Can also go into another dash to catch a backdash during recovery or go into j.K overhead.

Now, if you go for 2P out of this and they block, you have some options. You want to 2P into tick throw, and they'll either try to just throw you, jump, dp, or poke out. If they try to DP/jump/throw, odds are they're not holding downback, so 2S works. There is no frame gap for this unless they IB the 2P, so the DP or backdash wont go active if they try it, they wont jump (holding up means not blocking low), and even if they do go for the throw after an IB, that means they're not holding downback (have to hold strictly 4 or 6 to throw) so if they mistime the frame-perfect throw, you hit them low.

2H leaves a 1-frame gap even when 2P isn't IB'd, so that's better for catching people depending on how they try to get out. If you think they'll poke out with anything not a DP or frame-perfect throw attempt you'll CH into big damage for no meter (2S does big damage but requires meter in most cases), and if they simply block, you're like +6 and can go into more stuff. If they backdash odds are you'll recover in time to not be disadvantaged. If they jump they get hit.

Edited September 25, 2013 by TheRealBobMan

[Mr.Minionman]

Solid. I appreciate the detailed explanation on the mixup, it puts it at a much clearer perspective for me. Working on implementing this, and I've noticed an immediate improvement. Thanks!

[Vosetri]

And you can always go for j.D if you feel like they are getting too comfortable with trying to throw after j.H. Since it floats you can use it after any move connects.

Even j.P > j.P > j.D works.