[CS1] Simple Q & A Thread

[Moy_X7]

I'm gonna have to hop on the "j.C sucks as a cross-up" bandwagon because it truly does suck as a cross-up. Your opponent has to be sleeping if he/she gets hit by an IAD j.C cross-up. If anything, it's a free IB if another Jin wants to try it on me.

[TCSyd]

Well, you're not going to realistically land a hit with IAD cross-up jC as a form of mix-up, but it builds distance (for 2D or to retreat, maybe?). I was a bit generous calling it "decent."

[Moy_X7]

That much is true, I guess it works when you're in the corner pressuring the opponent and want to switch sides... but then I could just go for a simple j.B/j.2C cross-up that has a higher chance of landing or continue the pressure if it's blocked. At least it should work against Tager if you're pressuring him and realize the mistake that you're committing, IAD j.C and keep-away lol.

[T.Kang]

I think that all of you have misunderstood. I mean JC IAD as in Jump Cancel Instant Airdash and not jump C Instant air dash (does that even make sense to begin with?).

Crossup j.C seriously sucks, I know as much hahaha. I thought that the universal way to write jump attacks were j.X and jump cancels as JC. I apologize for the confusion, hope one of you will be able to answer.

[FF7Cloud]

I need some help. When I try and attack after my opponent (for example an Ice arrow), I would try and use 5C and it would be blocked. Does this mean that the attack isn't fast enough or I have to time it? Same for Jin's Dp. I'm not sure if its my position or I just can't use 5C to punish it.

Also, I not sure when it's safe to attack . Since I'm new at the game, everytime they attack I try to attack to take the offensive and end up being counter hit. So I'm not sure if I should attack after I find a better position or what. I have a tendency to think that I cab go through my opponents attacks if I attack with a faster one and find out that it doesn't work and end up being counter hit. Too much SSBB.

And when I luckily get an attack off, I never know what to do.

I realize that these are probably noob mistakes, but the only way for me to get better is to ask these questions .

Thanks

[Jetm]

I need some help. When I try and attack after my opponent (for example an Ice arrow), I would try and use 5C and it would be blocked. Does this mean that the attack isn't fast enough or I have to time it? Same for Jin's Dp. I'm not sure if its my position or I just can't use 5C to punish it.

Also, I not sure when it's safe to attack . Since I'm new at the game, every time they attack I try to attack to take the offensive and end up being counter hit. So I'm not sure if I should attack after I find a better position or what. I have a tendency to think that I cab go through my opponents attacks if I attack with a faster one and find out that it doesn't work and end up being counter hit. Too much SSBB.

And when I luckily get an attack off, I never know what to do.

I realize that these are probably noob mistakes, but the only way for me to get better is to ask these questions .

Thanks

Speed is everything. In a fighting game, time is dealt with on a much smaller scale than most things. For example, Moonsong (Ice Arrow) is -37 frames on block, meaning that you have a little over half a second to hit your opponent after blocking it (which in fighting game terms is actually quite a long time). Your 5C starts up in 10 frames, meaning that you have roughly 27 frames, or a tiny bit less than half a second, to move around and react. Were you to use a faster move (let's just say 5B), you would have 30 frames instead since it has 7 frames of startup.

Now, when it comes to punishing Jin's DPs, there are big differences between them all. If you end up blocking the A or B version in the air using barrier block, nine times out of ten you can kiss punishing him goodbye since A is -17 and B is -11. C version is -40 frames on block, so you have quite a long time (relatively) to punish him. D version is tricky because of the second hit gaining unblockable properties when fully charged, being air unblockable without barrier, and being able to be released at any moment, but if you end up blocking the second hit you have 26 frames to hit him, so it's rather punishable.

If you're having trouble with those, try to practice doing a quick dash into 5C. 66 (return to neutral) C as fast as you can. You'll carry your dashing momentum if you cancel your dash into an attack, allowing you to start up your attack early and still make it within range to hit the opponent because you slide along the ground a short distance.

When it comes to getting out of pressure, the most you can do is wait for an opponent to leave a hole in his blockstrings and either backdash out, jump out while blocking, wait for the opponent to attempt to reset pressure by leaving a small hole while they recover from the previous attack (ala 2AAA dash 2AAAA), or use a reversal to hit your opponent out of their move. If you're going to attempt to reversal, it is a good idea to practice instant blocking basic pressure strings so that you can open up a hole in their pressure to take advantage of. You will pretty much never win by just trying to mash out of pressure with your fastest attack.

Important note: Everyone's pressure is different. You will have to learn each character's holes individually as you go. Some are more obvious than others.

As for not knowing what to do after you hit the opponent, I have three words. Practice, practice, practice. Look up what your options are after landing a specific move. The combo thread is always a great place to find followups for your combo starter. Once you've found something that will work, go into training mode and work until you can get it right. Doing it on reaction is a matter of experience fighting an actual opponent. You have to be able to make a judgment regarding whether or not the attack you use is going to hit.

Keep at it and don't hesitate to ask to elaborate on a point of two if I got a little confusing.

[FF7Cloud]

Speed is everything. In a fighting game, time is dealt with on a much smaller scale than most things. For example, Moonsong (Ice Arrow) is -37 frames on block, meaning that you have a little over half a second to hit your opponent after blocking it (which in fighting game terms is actually quite a long time). Your 5C starts up in 10 frames, meaning that you have roughly 27 frames, or a tiny bit less than half a second, to move around and react. Were you to use a faster move (let's just say 5B), you would have 30 frames instead since it has 7 frames of startup.

Now, when it comes to punishing Jin's DPs, there are big differences between them all. If you end up blocking the A or B version in the air using barrier block, nine times out of ten you can kiss punishing him goodbye since A is -17 and B is -11. C version is -40 frames on block, so you have quite a long time (relatively) to punish him. D version is tricky because of the second hit gaining unblockable properties when fully charged, being air unblockable without barrier, and being able to be released at any moment, but if you end up blocking the second hit you 26 frames to hit him, so it's rather punishable.

If you're having trouble with those, try to practice doing a quick dash into 5C. 66 (return to neutral) C as fast as you can. You'll carry your dashing momentum if you cancel your dash into an attack, allowing you to start up your attack early and still make it within range to hit the opponent because you slide along the ground a short distance.

When it comes to getting out of pressure, the most you can do is wait for an opponent to leave a hole in his blockstrings and either backdash out, jump out while blocking, wait for the opponent to attempt to reset pressure by leaving a small hole while they recover from the previous attack (ala 2AAA dash 2AAAA), or use a reversal to hit your opponent out of their move. If you're going to attempt to reversal, it is a good idea to practice instant blocking basic pressure strings so that you can open up a hole in their pressure to take advantage of. You will pretty much never win by just trying to mash out of pressure with your fastest attack.

Important note: Everyone's pressure is different. You will have to learn each character's holes individually as you go. Some are more obvious than others.

As for not knowing what to do after you hit the opponent, I have three words. Practice, practice, practice. Look up what your options are after landing a specific move. The combo thread is always a great place to find followups for your combo starter. Once you've found something that will work, go into training mode and work until you can get it right. Doing it on reaction is a matter of experience fighting and actual opponent. You have to be able to make a judgment regarding whether or not the attack you use is going to hit.

Keep at it and don't hesitate to ask to elaborate on a point of two if I got a little confusing.

Wow, thanks a bunch man seriously. I needed that. Just the answers I've been looking for.

Reversal help please.

[cadacus_ater]

If you are wondering what a reversal is, it is generally any attack performed immediately after a non-hittable frame, often associated with attacks like DPs or sometimes Supers/Distortion Drives (DD). An example would be after you knocked down Ragna, he performs Inferno Divider (623 C/D) immediately after he does a tech/wakeup (gets up off the ground). Or he performs it during one of your attacks with proper timing. I'd say dp B, C or D would be Jin's main reversal candidates, mostly C and D.

I personally struggle with wakeup after I get knocked down, haven't quite got the timing down for using a dp upon wakeup (then again, I kinda suck with dp in general: I'd guess 60% of my dp attempts even execute, usually this happens when I'm facing left, trying to work on that) and in the heat of battle I sometimes do the same tech or wakeup too many times (i.e. emergency tech or backward roll), or even when I don't want to.... Other problems I have are failing to block due to poor character control or bad habits (i.e. not holding back far enough while crouching or blocking high/low when I know better), executing specials and/or combos properly online (sometimes due to lag, other times due to human error), using BB well, and approaching turtles without getting slapped, poked, thrown, etc. It's frustrating also that I'm getting to the point where I'm not learning as much from the CPU and I start memorizing CPU block strings instead of reacting.

So on to my question: with no friends close by to practice with (that I know of), should I be spending even more time in training mode (or some other mode) vs CPU and/or dummy or should I get beaten down more in network play and hope I pick up on things. As an aside, I don't usually get to play except on weekends.

I really should get myself a stick, might do better with basic execution, but I'm not ready to spend the money on one yet.

[xlolxlolx]

ugh....my head started hurting when i read wake up dp....

this is one reason why americans are so bad at fighting games.......wake up dp might work on street fighter but in games like bb and gg, block/whiff = you die, maybe doing it once is fine, but anymore and you might as well just tell them that you're free.

my advice for you is...well practice blocking by recording blockstrings and mixups instead of relying on the terrible AIs, you should play people with good connection instead for your execution problem, playing with lag will make you worse, nothings wrong with pad, especially not for jin.

[Milln]

Suppose I get a random j.d to connect (either being truly coincedence or I got a lucky j.5C or j.B counter hit while dashing or something.) in the air.

What are my options other than Ice Car depending variably on their height to continue this potential combo?

[xlolxlolx]

5C or 6C on ground if you're close to ground, j.236D if you really want to get a decent combo off it from almost all heights, j.236A/B/C air dash then do stuff as reset attempt or pressure, w/e u want to do