[CS1] Hazama Gameplay Discusson

[bjholmes2]

For posts that relate to Hazama's gameplay.

[Edge Reaper]

*looks around* Okay. Probably a bit too early to tell, but I'm assuming since Hazama has his own Boss theme (not to mention his own Azure Grimoire) that he's going to have an Unlimited State. I wonder how that's going to be like. All I know is if it's any worse than Ragna's Unlimited, I might actually cry.

[Justice7541]

If I recall correctly, there's already a boss Hazama, so Unlimited Hazama would probably just be identical to that.

[Firekid2]

So, what's Hazama's gameplay like? I'm thinking of switching from Noel, so yeah... Also, how difficult is he, execution wise?

[Edge Reaper]

So, what's Hazama's gameplay like? I'm thinking of switching from Noel, so yeah...

Also, how difficult is he, execution wise?

Just from videos? Fast, but not foot-wise. His drive can pull him towards his enemy or knock his enemy away, along with doing damage. From what I've seen in Zakiyama vids, his biggest strength comes from his air combos (relentless onslaughts of knife blows aided and abetted by his drive) and his distortion drive Jayoku Houtenjin (Very useful under pressure, invincible on start-up, and, unless its IB'd, you're almost assured to knock your enemy sky high). I'm probably doing him little justice here, but that's the basics so far.

[Meever]

I only got in a couple of rounds so I'm no expert. I'll have a better impression tomorrow so expect an update but basically. Most of his moves are either slow, short ranged or have obvious startups. The key to playing a good Hazama seems to be doing things very unexpected and placing yourself where you need to be via drive. His drive makes placing him where you need to be easy. But at the same time this means that where you are compared to your opponent becomes very important. Getting good at him relies heavily on understanding spacing. For example his B&B combo 5b+5c+3c+214d->C+5c+4D, etc, etc. The first bit is easy, but connecting with the 4D is very difficult at first. Getting it to hit isn't too bad, but unless you've distanced yourself just right you won't be able to finish the string and end up with mediocre damage. Same deal with his Anti air moves. They have great priorities but small hitboxes. (Like is 623D and 2C) And yes 632, 632 B is great for getting out of pressure or cornering opponents. But unlike most characters Hazama really doesn't have amazing corner games so I't generally better to try and stay away from corners.

[ghaleon109]

The biggest PITA for me is judging how long to delay the 5C after his BnB 214D~C to go into the air with j.C and then relaunch back up with 2C. Too early and they can tech before 2C lands, too late and you drop the combo after the first couple of j.C's. I was using 2C after the 214D~C as it was the perfect timing to get the relaunch 2C later on, but depending on how far out the 214D~C connects it wasn't bringing them high enough in some cases and they were teching before the 2C could connect. This is the main thing bugging me with Hazama right now... but other than that I really like him. If you can get a chain off and approach them safely with ~D then you are in a very good situation... It's just a matter of getting in safely since most character's 5A will stop any approach =/

[IkeTakeda]

It a Tom and Jerry game with Hazama.

[kid viper]

The biggest PITA for me is judging how long to delay the 5C after his BnB 214D~C to go into the air with j.C and then relaunch back up with 2C.

Too early and they can tech before 2C lands, too late and you drop the combo after the first couple of j.C's.

I was using 2C after the 214D~C as it was the perfect timing to get the relaunch 2C later on, but depending on how far out the 214D~C connects it wasn't bringing them high enough in some cases and they were teching before the 2C could connect.

This is the main thing bugging me with Hazama right now... but other than that I really like him. If you can get a chain off and approach them safely with ~D then you are in a very good situation... It's just a matter of getting in safely since most character's 5A will stop any approach =/

if you can't get in safely with hazama then what is wrong with you X_X lolol. seriously though, getting next to your opponent shouldn't be the problem, getting them off you really is :o

[ghaleon109]

Not saying that you can't get in safely... just stating that it's not 5D~D ---> instant blockstring like I was thinking before I actually played the character, a lot of character's 5A and AA's will stop his approach via chain if you just do it out of nowhere. I've just been trying to IB as much as possible though to get out of the corner pressure. Been doing pretty shitty there agaisnt Bang and Ragna players.

[Moogster]

How hard is it to IB -> Jayoku?

[kid viper]

tricky timing or so it feels

[ghaleon109]

I feel like this is the case with almost all of his setups... You really have to experiment the first time you play him because everything has a specific timing that won't work if you do it too late/early. 214D~C after Jayoku, 6D~A going into Jakou, dashing 3c after Jakou, pool super after Jakou... ect Hell even his BnB won't work if you time the 5C after 214D~C wrong Edit: FFFFFFFFFFUCK I hate the 236236B input, I just superjump the whole godamn time.

[currentlemon]

I think I'm a little late on this, but can someone post info on Hazama frame data. __________________ BB main: Sub:

[testament101]

ok...about Rasenga...I just saw a vid where it fatal countered a Jin coming in from the air but any other time he countered jin with it, it just had regular counter properties. Why did Rasenga get FC properties that one time?

[WUT]

You can delay the inputs for Hazama's special moves out of his 214D stance. Doing so will give them additional properties (you can tell if it's a delayed version via a blue trail that follows Hazama as he performs the special). However, the A follow-up doesn't f.CH at any point; only the B follow-up gains f.CH potential from delaying the input. When using the delayed version, the A follow-up has more hitstun (possibly blockstun as well?), while the C follow-up deals more damage.

[geist]

ok...about Rasenga...I just saw a vid where it fatal countered a Jin coming in from the air but any other time he countered jin with it, it just had regular counter properties. Why did Rasenga get FC properties that one time?

sure you're talking about rasenga (the overhead) and not gashoukyaku? (flash kick)

[testament101]

sure you're talking about rasenga (the overhead) and not gashoukyaku? (flash kick)

Yeah you're right. I got the moves mixed up. But yeah what's up with it gaining FC properties. Like when does it gain those properties?

[suna19]

i believe Wut answered up there. gashoukyaku is 214D~B. delaying the input of the B charges it, and when it's charged, it will fatal counter

[Sol.Badguy]

Ah what do you pplz mean by fatal counter plz

[RAQU 17]

Ah what do you pplz mean by fatal counter plz

Only some attacks in the game can be a Fatal Counter. Its simply done just like a regular counter, however not only is there more hit stun, the proration to the follow up attacks are improved.

Long story short-- Fatal Counter = More Damage for the rest of the combo.

[geist]

Ah what do you pplz mean by fatal counter plz

taken from the system thread by stunedge

Fatal Counter

Some moves in CS are classified as Fatal Counter(FC) moves which will trigger FC on counter.

Many FC moves are also Guard break moves, but not all guard break moves are FC moves.

After FC, it will add 2F to untechable frames of all moves during the follow up combo.

e.g. Jin 2C(FC)>2D>5C>6C>~~ 2C(FC)>5C>6C>~ works on standing motion

Some moves such as Rachel's Lv.3 J2C can even cause FC during the combo.

There is no damage buff after FC.

More investigation needed.

I believe jayoku(kick super) and 214D~B (delayed) are hazama's only 2 FC moves

gashoukyaku FC makes it completely untechable (as far as we can tell)

[bjholmes2]

Long story short-- Fatal Counter = More Damage for the rest of the combo.

Don't forget that every move done in a FC combo has slightly more hitstun. Therefore, the door is opened to previously impossible combos.

At least, that's how it was the last I checked up on it.

[Wolf Pup TK]

Is j.C jump cancelable, or am I supposed to wait for it to finish, then jump?

[FuzzyWUzzy]

Is j.C jump cancelable, or am I supposed to wait for it to finish, then jump?

Gotta wait for it to finish.