[CS1] Hazama vs. Iron Tager

[Fireryda]

I'm still suprised how mizuchi does 1500+ after all that..

Anyways it's definately not practical. Best bet is to do a double Jayoku combo which is rather easy to do especially in/near corner and almost just as good. ~7k off Jayoku starter, ~7.5k+ off 5c/6c ch starter.

[Ghost Beef]

I HATE THIS MATCHUP!

I want to make it an interesting fight and not zone all day and run like a pansy. The hard part is just getting in on a chain hit without opening yourself up for a 360 or even worse...

[Arifureta]

I want to make it an interesting fight and not zone all day and run like a pansy.

There's your problem. :V

Also, don't fly in on a blocked chain. It's suicidal.

[kid viper]

tager vs hazama is $FREE.99

play the zoning game and force the error all day, tager cannot do anything about it. go in on a hit confirmed chain into j.6d relaunch combo all day. if you get tager in the corner and you have meter don't be afraid to go for the command grab on him. you get a free jayoku corner combo that leads into 4.2k damage and 50% meter and still leaves you in good positioning.

[Edge Reaper]

From playing the match-up with the hundreds of Tagers in ranked...

- D-A. Learn it, Love it, Spam it. With Tagers trying to close the gap with sledge hammer, launching yourself is asking for trouble. Wait till you get the confirmed hit then D-D to close the gap.

-If you're trying for J6D-D, make sure to hit confirm. Otherwise, you're asking for an Atomic Collider from the better Tager players.

-You're not gonna overpower Tager or out pressure him. Your combos get blocked GTFO, or suffer a 360 for your stupidity.

[UZI4YOU]

For lack of playing this matchup, is it possible to 7D straight up after being gadget fingered to escape both the 360 and collider kinda annoying to test.

[Fireryda]

No.

You need grounded time to launch the chain upwards and when you start flying you can get grabbed out of it with collider.

It's still a guessing game..

[UZI4YOU]

thanks, kinda realized within last couple minutes. would have been nice to :vbang:have a get out of jail free card.

[The_Zawmbee]

if you get hit by a sledge but not followup for some reason would you have enough time from a neutral wakeup to get out of range of a 360 or counter while tager is in recovery from a b sledge?

[Fireryda]

B Sledge doesn't knock down afaik. And if he hits you he has advantage. If he decides to 360 you right after it'll be a pink throw so you can tech. If he doesn't you can just jump out (or 9j.b > 5b), it's too risky to ground counter him though as if he times it right he can throw counter command grab you.

[The_Zawmbee]

i guess i worded that odd but you answered the gist of what i was asking so thanks, so on to the next im kind of bad at punishing tager because while normally im an aggressive player i dont know what to punish for that would net some decent damage any thoughts?

[Arifureta]

Punish random sledges. Either go for chain, or 3C.

Or bait sledges, then punish. Whichever.

[currentlemon]

What is the best move to punish random sledges.

[Fireryda]

IMO. Dash 3C. Gotta be able to judge the distance though.

Safest is to hit at max distance

3c > dash 5c > 2c > ...

or 3c > 214d~a > 5a > 5c > 4d~a...

If he's close enough, standard BnB.

Don't need to worry about A sledge much as it barely goes anywhere. i'm pretty sure you can just chain follow up and hit him out of recovery.. maybe... Either way if he A sledges through a chain you can follow up and he can't do anything about it but block.

^ 44.44% (recurring of course) sure about above statement.

[Xill]

As silly as it is, I like playing Tager a bit more aggressively when i'm Hazama. I'll go in on block'd blades and cancel the momentum with j.BC on the way in to keep him on his toes. Few random 214D-D to keep him paying attention. If i think he'll toss something out, i'll toss out a late 236D. Tossing out 6C when you think he might wanna toss a poke out is good too. Taking his guard primer every once and awhile will make him think. Hits are decent and CH is a free combo. Being that 2C hits much more often than I ever would have thought now, I try to cross up only if i'm close to him as a surprise. Gatlings into 5C then 5D-C with 'jump in' of choice. Tricky/Risky, but it does damage. So whatever. Just gotta watch the gauges Tager has like everyone else.

He deals out crazy damage but I have much more fun trying to make him do the guessing game than vise versa with the lil bits of frame advantage I can pull.

[kazukifafner]

I tend to use a lot of chain intimidation in this matchup. A hesitant Tager is easily crushed by Hazama. Also, standard wakeup leads to easy 236C punishment. This is especially handy when in the corner, because the only other option is to roll; and a well predicted 2A can lead to more corner rape.

[Drill]

Okay, when he keeps the pressure up with sledge, guarding it makes him back off just enough for 3C to not be in range. And he keeps using it before I can 5D him. What do I do?

Also, he ends up backing me into a corner and then raping me...

[A.X.I.S.]

you do know that if tager is using sledge for pressure then you can IB and jump away right?

hell if you IB sledge you can do more than that.

[kazukifafner]

Yeah, if a Tager gets in on you with sledge, you have a plethora of options available (especially on IB).

You've just got to remember that, even though his drive is incredibly valuable, that isn't the only tool he has.

[SmilingBison]

I'm having a lot of trouble with a super spammy tager and was hoping to get some tips. Essentially all this tager does is spam 2D or sledges, and I mean over and over and over as soon as I leave the ground to try and start snake pressure. He repeats the spam until he connects and then hits his BnB for about a third of Hazama's life, the problem I have is since these moves seem to have super armor to snakes I can't ever land a single hit on him when he is spamming. I've tried baiting it out and then punishing, but during a punish since he doesn't care about damage since he has so much health he is just spinning 360's hoping for a throw counter, which he tends to get a lot. I know I'm new to the game and it's mechanics but this matchup (or more specifically his playstyle) just aggravates me to no end since it seems he just has to get lucky a few times vs me having to put in a ton of work to try and win. I've tried getting in early landing a quick BnB and then running the whole match, but it seems at some point I wind up with NP and then if tager catches me I'm really screwed. Any tips for a new player on how to stop some BS nonsense that would probably never work against anybody with even a little skill?

[Fireryda]

Hit him out of 2D with a chain.

Depending on what sledge you can follow up your chain and hit him out of the recovery. j.2c is your best bet here as it gives huge hit-stun.

[Kane]

It's a given that Tager needs to sledge to get in, you can 5D~A to bait one and punish. If your spacing isn't too good and he's going to connect the sledge, you can IB it and fuck him up.

If he jumps in, 2C is good as you have to FD to block it, 5C is good also but you get less off it.

I'm not sure how to get out of gadget finger pressure safely, back-dashing isn't safe due to 720 and 5D, and jumping back can result in an atomic collider. Is TK j.214B a option? I don't wanna think about what would happen if it were blocked...

[Arifureta]

I would suggest blocking. :V

Or 5A. But mostly blocking.

[kazukifafner]

Gadget Finger isn't designed to have a safe option. It's a guessing game. Guess right, you'll be fine. If not, you'll eat another combo or throw.

[Kane]

hmm, thought as much...