[CS1] Hazama vs. Hakumen

[bjholmes2]

For discussion of the Hazama vs. Hakumen matchup.

[SH-Junkie]

Watch a couple of videos including Buppa vs Zakiyama vids. It seems to fair to say that Hazama has an upper hand over hakumen. You would use oroborous to out poke hakumen and while he air dashes.

[ghaleon109]

...Don't be stupid and shoot one of his chains at an orb of death. It'll lock on and not allow Hazama to cancel the chain as fast as he usually can.

[SolidPlay]

annoy hakumen with chain cancels and chain fakes be EXTREMELY careful of giving him an orb or getting IAD C'd in the face. to elaborate make him stab at thin air sometimes and catch a counter hit j.6d to the face. Pull in for combo. Stay just outside of his st. 4c range try to make good hakumen feel like chain is threatening him. Most hakumen will get tempted IAD in. if you space it right you can anti air him with 2c for some decent counter hit damage. Most of the time hakumen will beat everything you have mid range so be prepare for to jump up and IB his air normals and punish if you're that close. the cool thing is that you don't have to be afraid of 6a anymore because its slow as shit. so don't hesitate to jump in unless you sense a counter in which case you of course bait it. Correct me if I'm wrong someone but doesn't hazama 3c go under hakumen's 4c. if so that may be useful too. hazama flashkick gets him out of hakumen's pressure too TL;DR annoy hakumen with J.6d chains and J. late 5d chain in the air. also after a falling 5d most hakumen will 90 percent of the time try to air dash in stuff that shit with a well space 6d chain BE WARY OF HIM STABBING THEM DON'T BE PREDICTABLE 2c is a good anti air if spaced jumping in on hakumen is not as life threatening anymore because of 6a nerf. 5a is still viable though so its not free flashkick (214d>b) his ass for getting too friendly when jumping in be prepare to IB his j.c or 4c then air dash in for profit. make him feel chain is threatening him so he whiffs moves to get an orb. thats when you have your opening. IB super his slow moves when you have the meter.

[Meever]

I do very poorly against Hakumen these days. I play against a lot of aggro Haks which aren't too bad but one of my friends zone with Hak. He uses 4C and 5C to keep me from getting close, and nothing Hazama has can really beat me into combo range. Any advice? Should I try and poke? Bait wiffs?

[junja]

id love to play that guy, all i want to do is run away. you dont really want to just be getting up close. hazama has sick range game, so outside of hakumens sword range is where you want to be. practicing combos is good, but if you dont take damage you get to play again. you should approach by any D, and hitconfirm it into D > do stuff. but you can also just stay away and keep zoning. dont spam snake though, cuz even if youre mixing up which direction, it still lets them learn the timing. pressure them, but vary your timing, and use fakes once you have taught them that you are going to hit them with d. even though hes pretty scary with that potential iad c, you are also scary with your potential snake, which would beat that iad.

[Holy_Beergut]

A relatively good starting move against hakuman is sj away j6d, most hakuman's I've fought tend to do 4c or 6c poke as their starting move so you'll be able to get a CH combo from the j6d grab. Worst thing that could happen would probably be hakuman iading and air grabbing you though they probably won't do that unless they know you're going to do it. They tend to go for the safer option of poking usually.As a plus, if they block it,you can always just retract safely or just pull yourself away if they dash.

[RAQU 17]

If you can bait Hakumens jump ins, 214D~B will out right beat his attacks and usually lead to a CH combo. I usually bait him with 5/6D~A spam.

[Drill]

Okay. Simple question.

Getting REALLY tired of my bro spamming Hakumens 4C poke. Any ideas on how to get in there even with all the spam?

[Arifureta]

Bait poke, fly in from air? Or even better, bait poke, j.6D > #j.214B.

[kazukifafner]

Against 4C? (h)j6D~D > BnB. Honestly, what you have to watch out for as smart Haku's that IAD using 2A to snag your 6D predictions. Still, you can out maneuver Haku, so it just takes a little patience until you get that chain hit confirm.

[Edge Reaper]

Right now Haku's being one of my bigger pains online, if not the biggest honestly. I don't know if its the players I'm going against, but once Haku gets in range, Hazama's health goes down like its nobodies business. An offensive Haku is a serious problem for me. Trying to counter their approach by using chains doesn't work because they just counter with J2C which actually cuts down my means of escape unless I wanna get a face full of black hole. Haku's range with 4C is also a bitch, meaning I've got to be even further away to be safe. And it always starts being used when I'm stuck in a corner and unable to find a way out without taking some serious retribution for it.

On that note, little tidbit, I have yet to find a safe counter for Haku's 6A without means of instant block or JH (and sometimes not even the JH)

[kazukifafner]

I don't know if its the players I'm going against, but once Haku gets in range, Hazama's health goes down like its nobodies business.

That's no surprise there, lol. Everyone's health goes down once Hak gets in range :P

Trying to counter their approach by using chains doesn't work because they just counter with J2C which actually cuts down my means of escape unless I wanna get a face full of black hole.

If they keep IADing and attacking, switch from chains to 214D~B counter. Couple rounds of that, and Hak will back to wondering what to do.

And it always starts being used when I'm stuck in a corner and unable to find a way out without taking some serious retribution for it.

It's all about knowing the right time. Hak's pressure has numerous countering opportunities (many of which don't even require IB). If you can't do it, for whatever reason, wait for an opportunity to throw out a quick 4D or 2D to pull yourself away from the corner. A lot of people underestimate just how fast it is, but seeing as how you don't need full extension to reel yourself in, a quick D followup does wonders for escaping.

On that note, little tidbit, I have yet to find a safe counter for Haku's 6A without means of instant block or JH (and sometimes not even the JH)

Seems like it'd be something that's better to interrupt with 2A before it happens.

[Kane]

I agree with kazukifafner. Hazama is amazing at escaping, block and wait for gaps then jump > chain away!

I find canceling chains with A can bait Haku-men into things like IAD'ing, throwing out C moves etc.

[UZI4YOU]

so if I do get that hit confirm chain and get in for the combo is it better to stay there or move away, I mean this probably depends on the situation/health both characters have but is it always better to stay away?

[Arifureta]

If you get your knockdown, it's much better to keep applying your pressure, specially since it's a lot harder to get in on Hakumen compared to most of the cast.

[Kane]

All are IB > Jayoku houtenjin unless stated otherwise.

2A

5C

2C

Renka (1st hit. Fatal Counter. You eat the second hit but can tech instantly for a followup)

Zantetsu (IB'ing first hit gets you Fatal Counter, IB'ing second doesn't)

Enma (Fatal Counter, can also punish with 3C if you don't have super)

[ixRenegade]

Lots of D~A to bait attempt for orb of death. Take advantage of chain hits.

Hakumen doesn't have too many options on wake up. 2A to poke out rolls, or if neutral wake up, command grab>free combo.

[kinker]

i noticed that hakumen's IAD D beats jayoku, but not 5C. can someone confirm or is it just my timing that is making me hit?

[Phoeniks]

As a side note, if the Hakumen likes to 4C incessantly and is at least a little retarded, you could through out a dry 632146C for humiliation.

Also, 214D~B is your friend.

[Klaige]

214D-B is super good for baiting IAD's but one thing i've really noticed is that command throw is your goddamn friend in this fight. Granted this is online, and we all know online is full of scrubs, but nothing tones down counter happy hakus and allows you to occsionally reel in on a blocked chain like abusing the command throw. I've beat quite a few hakus with little more than landing command throws, comboing, baiting the counter with another command throw and repeating. Once you can condition one to fear that on wakeup, it really becomes a party because now you get your standard mixup that haku would normally try to eliminate with counter-spam.

This fight is still one of hazama's worst i think, but i've had way more success once i started using the command throw and learning the proper distance to get FC on 214D-B

[LeFartknocker]

Does 2D slip under Hakumen's 4C range? Or will the 4C clash with 2D and make one of those damnable orbs?

[JinSaotome]

214D-B is super good for baiting IAD's but one thing i've really noticed is that command throw is your goddamn friend in this fight. Granted this is online, and we all know online is full of scrubs, but nothing tones down counter happy hakus and allows you to occsionally reel in on a blocked chain like abusing the command throw. I've beat quite a few hakus with little more than landing command throws, comboing, baiting the counter with another command throw and repeating. Once you can condition one to fear that on wakeup, it really becomes a party because now you get your standard mixup that haku would normally try to eliminate with counter-spam.

This fight is still one of hazama's worst i think, but i've had way more success once i started using the command throw and learning the proper distance to get FC on 214D-B

+1 to this, Hazama's only bad matchup lol. in this matchup, Haku has literally no reason to come to you in this fight. He can keep you out all day with orbs and long range sword pokes, and a good number of your mixup tools are very easy to counter (mashmashmash 6D/2D for 5B frametraps, Rassenga can be 5D'd on reaction.) So make sure to keep differentiating the timing on your pressure strings and bait those counters! This is definitely the one fight where you need your command grab most.

[Black Onslaught]

What no, Hazama has bad matchups versus Ragna for debatable reasons.

Hakumen is a bitch and a half to fight with Hazama, because if he orbs a chain your approach is gone for the most part. Hakumen has superior normals and specials, and until you get 50 heat you're going to be praying for the most part.

If you're ballsy you can IB 4C and try to dash cancel 2A, it's worked with limited success for a CH for me.

But yeah, praying.

[kazukifafner]

Hazama's 3C goes under Hakuman's 4C. I surprise a lot of Hakumans who like to start matches with 4C that way.