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Senxo

The Fighter Mentality

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whenever i see these types of arguments i always think, when these games are played well, the way they are supposed to be, you push your opponent, he pushes you back, it's tense and clutch and all that good stuff: that is where the true beauty in these games lie.

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The most important thing is being able to take your losses as well your wins. Even if you have more experience than the other guy, you may lose. So, every event is random, but one should also know their weaknesses and work on it.

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The most important thing is being able to take your losses as well your wins. Even if you have more experience than the other guy, you may lose. So, every event is random, but one should also know their weaknesses and work on it.

Do not let us forget, there really is a natural ability involved in the equation as well. Some people will just be better than others.

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Mental, I genuinely want to be mad at you for being a pretentious fuckwit but I'm honestly the exact same way.

That being said, I would argue that those guys didn't do anything wrong and any display of pseudo-intellectualism was unintended.

Anyway, back on topic.

I play this game with 4 of my friends and am better than them to the point where I get regular perfects and lose 1/200 matches with them, even when I don't try very hard. I frequent Training Mode more than they do, which means I can pull off combos better. But I learned to play BB by playing Versus with them, meaning their Versus experience and mine are nearly identical. My ability to space, mix-up, and otherwise do strategical things is phenomenally better and I'd argue that it's because I approach each fight as a learning experience, while they approach each fight trying to use things they already know (I desperately try to teach them advanced techniques on a regular basis). In addition, I strive to understand games, especially fighters, perfectly. This means that I know exactly what to do on a meta level while they may not.

Summary: Observe and learn in every fight. Understand little things like frame data. Observe professional fights and try to understand what they are thinking at every given moment.

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Mental, I genuinely want to be mad at you for being a pretentious fuckwit but I'm honestly the exact same way.

Lol, that's your problem asshat.

Seriously though, was just trolling, having my fair share of LULZ YA KNOW?!

That being said, I would argue that those guys didn't do anything wrong and any display of pseudo-intellectualism was unintended.

No disagreements there.

I play this game with 4 of my friends and am better than them to the point where I get regular perfects and lose 1/200 matches with them, even when I don't try very hard. I frequent Training Mode more than they do, which means I can pull off combos better. But I learned to play BB by playing Versus with them, meaning their Versus experience and mine are nearly identical. My ability to space, mix-up, and otherwise do strategical things is phenomenally better and I'd argue that it's because I approach each fight as a learning experience, while they approach each fight trying to use things they already know (I desperately try to teach them advanced techniques on a regular basis). In addition, I strive to understand games, especially fighters, perfectly. This means that I know exactly what to do on a meta level while they may not.

Sounds like the next logical step would be to find new opponents and/or get new friends. Fighting against the same 'ol schmucks, especially schmucks you can get regular perfects on and only lose once in a blue moon to, is not going to get you to the next level. You need to find better opponents. The harder they curb stomp you the better, at least in my case, because that strongly motivates me to step my game up. It's good for your gameplay and your ego.

I agree with your fighing game philosophy though and approach my matches the same way. Might not win all my matches, but as long as I learned something, s'all good.

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A friend of mine made a switch from SSF4 to CS and it's been interesting teaching him how to play. His improvement has been phenomenal compared to most people, probably because he's pretty seasoned at the genre. It's really how you approach the learning process, there's a difference between genuinely wanting to get better and just wanting easy wins stomping newbies.

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Do not let us forget, there really is a natural ability involved in the equation as well. Some people will just be better than others.

Yes, but, if we all think that way, we will never improve on our faults because we'll have a predestined mindset, especially for a match. It's better to work hard and figure it out. Phoeniks is a good example of this.

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Yes, but, if we all think that way, we will never improve on our faults because we'll have a predestined mindset, especially for a match. It's better to work hard and figure it out. Phoeniks is a good example of this.

No way. There is always someone better out there. Recognizing someone is better and learning from them is not a bad thing.

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I think diospyros misunderstood your post. I don't blame him though, as it was worded in a way that suggested some people are simply better players than others AND that there is no way for players with inferior natural ability to surpass them. My interpretation of your post is that it's about acknowledging that some people are indeed better than you and figuring out what they are doing to make them better, but not about resigning to a mentality of hopelessness, which is what diospyros seems to think.

Yes, but, if we all think that way, we will never improve on our faults because we'll have a predestined mindset, especially for a match.

Think you mean "predetermined".

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I've now started to analyze match videos from the perspective of the player who loses. I think that understanding why you lose is another factor that goes into growing up as a player. Especially with characters that have major matchup problems, I feel it is imperative that you know why you get caught in something, or why some things do not work. You can't be perfect if you don't know what flaws to stay away from.

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I think diospyros misunderstood your post. I don't blame him though, as it was worded in a way that suggested some people are simply better players than others AND that there is no way for players with inferior natural ability to surpass them. My interpretation of your post is that it's about acknowledging that some people are indeed better than you and figuring out what they are doing to make them better, but not about resigning to a mentality of hopelessness, which is what diospyros seems to think.

Ding ding!

Some people learn faster. One person can pick up a fight stick and master the hardest combo in a day. Someone else it might take a month. You can get there, you just have to work a lot harder. And do NOT get into the hopeless mindset. If I get good vs someone who has been playing it alot longer than me, that is an even bigger victory.

Yes, there simply are better players out there. There will be people with a higher natural ability, but I did not mean there is no way to get on their level by doing what you can. On the other hand, lets take the 15 year arcade veteran who could do combos in their sleep versus the player completely new to the genre. It's going to end ugly, and chances are by the time the lifespan of the game is over, they still might not be on the same level as the veteran. That is out of our control. And yes, sorry if it makes some of you sad, but there are going to be people that you'll never be better than. If you took up basketball at age 21, you are NEVER going to be better than Michael Jordan. It's just something you have to accept.

You always have to push yourself to learn. Do not be closed minded, take everything you can from everyone around you, learn the best of the best, push away the worthless. Develop your own way.

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Yes, there simply are better players out there. There will be people with a higher natural ability, but I did not mean there is no way to get on their level by doing what you can.

It would help if you elaborated on this bit instead of the lower bit. You still seem to be mainly emphasizing some insurmountable barrier.

On the other hand, lets take the 15 year arcade veteran who could do combo's in their sleep vs the player completely new to the genre. It's going to end ugly, and chances are by the time the lifespan of the game is over, they still might not be on the same level as the veteran. That is out of our control. And yes, sorry if it makes some of you sad, but there are going to be people that you'll never be better than. If you took up basketball at age 21, you are NEVER going to be better than Michael Jordan. It's just something you have to accept.

You seem to be saying time seems to be the factor that's out of one's control. Your example seems a bit extreme though. Obviously, the difference between the skills and experience of the two players is far too great for the inexperience player to catch up in a limited amount of time. I have to say that time I don't consider time that much of a factor though. Players improve at different speeds. I started playing Blazblue about a year ago and only started taking fighting games more seriously in the latter half of that year, but I can hold my own against all the players that used to wreck me, and can even destroy some of them on occasion. Bear in mind that I play Tager, whom as everyone should know, has some horrific matchups. Also, it's worth mentioning that all the people I play are a good couple years older than me, youngest are in their early to mid 20s. They all have more fighting game experience than me.Anyways, my point is that where players start out is much less important than what they do with their "quest", so to speak.

Sorry if my point's not too clear. Not sure how to respond since yours wasn't either. How about you explain your ideas in basic terms instead of attempting analogy?

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I think its safe to assume their will always be players who excel in fields compare to other and some that are just exceptional in general. How to cope with it is another issue. But isn't competition about the better man/woman winning?

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I did take what Infectellect said earlier in a different light and replied without thinking too deeply on it. In my mind, I was thinking of an "ability and effort" experiment that someone explained to me a long time ago and then applying the example to a totally different situation.

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Sounds like the next logical step would be to find new opponents and/or get new friends. Fighting against the same 'ol schmucks, especially schmucks you can get regular perfects on and only lose once in a blue moon to, is not going to get you to the next level. You need to find better opponents. The harder they curb stomp you the better, at least in my case, because that strongly motivates me to step my game up. It's good for your gameplay and your ego.

I agree with your fighing game philosophy though and approach my matches the same way. Might not win all my matches, but as long as I learned something, s'all good.

It's not that I have never played anyone but my friends. I've played countless people online (lol) and have won every single match after my first few months. I've also played a very good Japanese individual. He was probably the best person I've played, but I still did exceedingly well against him, though he was definitely a challenge.

I am eager to play other opponents and I really want to find someone who can consistently crush me because I know I would train for a few days and come back on an even playing field.

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It would help if you elaborated on this bit instead of the lower bit. You still seem to be mainly emphasizing some insurmountable barrier.

You seem to be saying time seems to be the factor that's out of one's control. Your example seems a bit extreme though. Obviously, the difference between the skills and experience of the two players is far too great for the inexperience player to catch up in a limited amount of time. I have to say that time I don't consider time that much of a factor though. Players improve at different speeds. I started playing Blazblue about a year ago and only started taking fighting games more seriously in the latter half of that year, but I can hold my own against all the players that used to wreck me, and can even destroy some of them on occasion. Bear in mind that I play Tager, whom as everyone should know, has some horrific matchups. Also, it's worth mentioning that all the people I play are a good couple years older than me, youngest are in their early to mid 20s. They all have more fighting game experience than me.Anyways, my point is that where players start out is much less important than what they do with their "quest", so to speak.

Sorry if my point's not too clear. Not sure how to respond since yours wasn't either. How about you explain your ideas in basic terms instead of attempting analogy?

Tager is one of my mains too :D

Anyway, what he is saying has undeniable validity, at least regarding sports. If you do not take up a sport early as hell, something like age 4, your chances of becoming a pro are far below minimal. Not only that, but some people do have a natural tendency towards certain skills, so if you weren't born relatively lucky, your chances of becoming a pro are even lower. I'd rather not go into why a 15 year old taking up basketball could never be better than Michael Jordan but I'll throw out one related term: myelin sheath.

This is less prevalent in fighting games because none of us could have grasped even the concept of Blazblue (or other complicated 2D fighters) at age 4. My opinion on the matter is that video games themselves can be compared to sports regarding the early age thing. When you get down to a specific genre, especially one as complicated as fighting games, the big issue in my opinion is the mindset, which comes from experience in the genre.

I'm explaining everything poorly, but my point is that scientifically speaking, doing something repeatedly from a young age will literally always beat hard work and determination at a late age, as depressing as that sounds. Fighting games are different simply because they aren't really possible to play (for real at least) at a young age. Regarding Blazblue, I truthfully believe that hard work and determination can be enough.

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You've played countless people nline you say? Question is, were they any good? Vast majority of online players (at least on the match vids I see on YouTube; don't have a console myself) seem to suck hard and the minority that do know what they're doing (and by that I mean they know their combos and don't do anything especially retarded) are still only decent and make various mistakes. You tell me though, since all I know about online play is what I see on match vids and what other people say (negative things about).

Do you have an arcade near where you live? Also, find a tournament if possible. A competitive environment sounds like it would do great for you.

EDIT: I understood what he was saying in relation to sports. I simply didn't agree that the same concept applied to fighting games.

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It seems to me that we are pretty much agreeing. Anyway, most of the people I've played online do suck pretty badly. But in my experience, I would usually get at least one person a day that really knew what they were doing. Whenever I watch matches on YouTube that aren't professional level I always get angry at the scrubbiness, especially when they are random card captures of online matches.

But I have been extremely impressed with a few Nu players, a Hakumen player, and a few Bang players. Maybe a couple Ragna's. It's always so satisfying to beat people that I consider really good. There are no arcades around where I live or where I go to school (WPI) and I've considered starting a tournament in my area, but nobody takes the game seriously around me. I usually hate losing in games, but I'm so sick of winning at BB that I'm at the point where I want to lose.

EDIT: Which will hopefully happen soon because I played barely any BB this summer until CS came out.

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But I have been extremely impressed with a few Nu players, a Hakumen player, and a few Bang players. Maybe a couple Ragna's. It's always so satisfying to beat people that I consider really good. There are no arcades around where I live or where I go to school (WPI) and I've considered starting a tournament in my area, but nobody takes the game seriously around me. I usually hate losing in games, but I'm so sick of winning at BB that I'm at the point where I want to lose.

EDIT: Which will hopefully happen soon because I played barely any BB this summer until CS came out.

You'll most likely lose this time, or maybe not. People who played CT before are already back to speed.

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I think its safe to assume their will always be players who excel in fields compare to other and some that are just exceptional in general.

isn't that true with, like EVERYTHING?

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You'll most likely lose this time, or maybe not. People who played CT before are already back to speed.

Well I've played some matches with some random people and I won them all (but Christ I forgot how annoying lag was) and I played like 40 matches with my friend today and won all but 1 (literally because of lag) and most of those were as Hazama (first time playing him against anyone). I'm not all that bad at him, but he is strangely hard to play and I feel the need to be defensive constantly. Good news is I'm used to versus again.

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Well I've played some matches with some random people and I won them all (but Christ I forgot how annoying lag was) and I played like 40 matches with my friend today and won all but 1 (literally because of lag) and most of those were as Hazama (first time playing him against anyone). I'm not all that bad at him, but he is strangely hard to play and I feel the need to be defensive constantly. Good news is I'm used to versus again.

i've said before hazama is unique, not bad, i'm not saying that. he's just very different and if you've been playing fighters for a long time, you need to think differently. i would agree that hazama has to be more defense oriented, but if you zone properly i think you'll be good. :v:

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