The Fighter Mentality

[Hellmonkey]

Different players develop different styles, and no single one is necessarily better than another in fg (more so in gg which simply allows for more freedom). Rtsd like niga slayer can be equally as effective as ruu timing out off the screen. Fighting games are a bit different than starcraft (day9) in the sense that in sc you have to stick to a gameplan your build is based around, which means almost no major decision making in one's playstyle is decided realtime. The killer instinct needed to constantly look for holes in your opponents play to abuse is very similar though.

[Skye]

:\ I suppose in a nutshell it's real-time strategy and the proper knowledge to capitalize on it. Real-time strategy relating to deciding to what do and when, as to not unknowingly fall into a pattern. Knowledge relating to knowing how to do what and when.

[-Ladon-]

Frag or be fragged: the korean way

[Penguinlord3792]

I'd say the average train a lot, gradually build your way up the difficulty ladder (Beginner-Hell.) Lets see.....no rage quitting, no button mashing, no spaming (Ice Car.) & also to have a calm, cool head, even in the most high pressuring, nerve racking battles.: also nipples of steel!! Also a tip, don't ever, ever play a serious match (Especially when you bet your LE copy of BB.) when ever you feel tired!, get rest, rest good for you! (Seriously.) Its best to have a good, well rested mind for upcoming challenges ahead. Also eat, shower, not going to the bathroom in your pants & brush your teeth, trust me, I've done all these things, they aren't fun!

[Hi I'm Asylum]

It is a game. Unless you are making a living off of the game, the goal should be to have as much fun as possible. For me that is respecting the people I play against and enjoying the betterment of my game.

[Matt]

I'd say the average train a lot, gradually build your way up the difficulty ladder (Beginner-Hell.) Lets see.....no rage quitting, no button mashing, no spaming (Ice Car.) & also to have a calm, cool head, even in the most high pressuring, nerve racking battles.: also nipples of steel!! Also a tip, don't ever, ever play a serious match (Especially when you bet your LE copy of BB.) when ever you feel tired!, get rest, rest good for you! (Seriously.) Its best to have a good, well rested mind for upcoming challenges ahead. Also eat, shower, not going to the bathroom in your pants & brush your teeth, trust me, I've done all these things, they aren't fun!

Wow. Just wow. I am so amazed by this post, SO ASTOUNDED, I just HAD to log on to say something about this post. Penguinlordthreesevenninetwo, you have left me SPEECHLESS!

[KayEff]

What should happen: Do your best! Don't bother with the details, just have fun!

What could (and might as well will) happen: YOUR PLAY STYLE IS SHIT, GO TRAIN SOME MORE YOU SHITBAG

All in all reality is gonna be different, regardless of advice. Just happens.

[SethDahlios]

Patience.

Because the second you get antsy, you're GOING to fuck up. Fighting needs to be routine, but flexible. Getting excited will change things from reaction times, to what you think you can do. If you get anxious, and attempt to do something stupid (like go for astral heat because you're winning) you'll make bad decisions that get worse and worse as you realize its not working.

Conversely, if things are going sour, you can't lose your cool. Doing so will only make things worse as you start flailing.

[Vulcan422]

I'll just break mine down.

Ranked Match Mentality: Win at all costs, everyone who sends me hate mail is butthurt.

Player Match Mentality (w/Friends): Feel free to fuck around, but play to win.

Player Match Mentality (w/Others): Play to win, but feel free to fuck around.

[Jourdal]

I'll just break mine down.

Ranked Match Mentality: Win at all costs, everyone who sends me hate mail is butthurt.

Player Match Mentality (w/Friends): Feel free to fuck around, but play to win.

Player Match Mentality (w/Others): Play to win, but feel free to fuck around.

I like this mentality...cept i fuck around in ranked more so than i do in player:vbang:

[Tsuki Garyuu]

I'll just break mine down.

Ranked Match Mentality: Win at all costs, everyone who sends me hate mail is butthurt.

Player Match Mentality (w/Friends): Feel free to fuck around, but play to win.

Player Match Mentality (w/Others): Play to win, but feel free to fuck around.

Truth

and for Ranked Matches, feel free to fuck with lvl1's.

[Vulcan422]

Damn straight.

[HeatEXTEND]

fighters require endless amounts of practice. Where other games rely more on instict and reflexes, fighters are about being able to react in the correct way within a seconds worth of time.

Wait, what ?

[Sponson]

Wait, what ?

Its simple, he has no idea what he's talking about. In fact its usually the complete other way around.

Take starcraft for example, the macro and micro sure, its good to do it really fast and precise, but you don't really need to. Its about scouting, build orders, and adaptability. Nothing about reflex, just a good mind about where you are.

Fighter games are all 'bout reflex. Because you only have the timeframe between attacks to get around and counter. Also note: You can spam early on and win - can't do that in other games, can't even conceptualize that in other games. Its true that you need practice, but you know what, you don't need to drill like ping pong.

Spam in counterstrike? You're just shooting. Spam in starcraft? You're not doing anything.

Edit: ITT people who takes games too seriously.

Edit: Edit: Like I'm all for play to win but jesus, talk about a joy kill sometimes.

[Matt]

blah

So what you're saying is that people should put in small amounts of practice, go completely off of reflexes and have no strategy in mind? That's gonna win you some matches.

[Abstract]

The true fighter mentality

[smooshman]

The true fighter mentality

how 'bout no

[GenoWhirl]

The true fighter mentality

*Contains EMI content and is not available on Panama*

Fucking Panama

[Sponson]

So what you're saying is that people should put in small amounts of practice, go completely off of reflexes and have no strategy in mind? That's gonna win you some matches.

Okay... you just totally flipped whatever I just said and tried to make me look stupid by posting an extremely exaggerated version of my post. Good job.

Let me put this in perspective for you, in starcraft when you scout that proxy gateway, you know zealots are coming to rape you asap, however you still have time to react if you scouted properly. If you scout an 8pool, well you have time to react. And by "time" I mean a minute or so. This minute buffer really stops reflex from being important because as long as you're reasonable with the response, its not going to matter.

In a fighting game, you have quite literally fractions of a second to respond. Take hellsfang, supers, sledge, noel's drive..." etc. to react to. Thats reflex. Backdashing a Chain Revolver into a 360a is reflex. Its independent from strategy, its synonymous with practice.

Infact I'll go ahead and say that you don't need strategy at all. Theres no "high ground" or "cover". Theres just you and the opponent and the wall of perception. You don't go and say "oh he's doing the orwellian opening I have all the time in the world to choose my move". And if you think countering something with something else is strategy... well you're right. But you're wrong in assuming the game relies "heavily" on it. Yeah, you should always x the y when z, but if that doesn't change, I hardly call that strategy, but more of a counter, and knowing a counter is just practice.

Without reflex and timing, you will never pull off that counter-super because the opponent surprised you with something that wasn't in your "strategy". And about practice? yeah everytime you play its called "practice", drilling is a form of practice... yes, but drilling a combo when you already know it flat is useless. You're basically saying "If you don't play this game you're not going to get better", which is a tautological statement that sounds retarded. And unless you're just spamming buttons (which doesn't count as practice), well.

[Abstract]

*Contains EMI content and is not available on Panama*

Fucking Panama

Now you too can experience the truthy truth of the True Fighter's Mentality(Trademark)

[Matt]

In a fighting game, you have quite literally fractions of a second to respond. Take hellsfang, supers, sledge, noel's drive..." etc. to react to. Thats reflex. Backdashing a Chain Revolver into a 360a is reflex. Its independent from strategy, its synonymous with practice.

Infact I'll go ahead and say that you don't need strategy at all. Theres no "high ground" or "cover". Theres just you and the opponent and the wall of perception. You don't go and say "oh he's doing the orwellian opening I have all the time in the world to choose my move". And if you think countering something with something else is strategy... well you're right. But you're wrong in assuming the game relies "heavily" on it. Yeah, you should always x the y when z, but if that doesn't change, I hardly call that strategy, but more of a counter, and knowing a counter is just practice.

Without reflex and timing, you will never pull off that counter-super because the opponent surprised you with something that wasn't in your "strategy". And about practice? yeah everytime you play its called "practice", drilling is a form of practice... yes, but drilling a combo when you already know it flat is useless. You're basically saying "If you don't play this game you're not going to get better", which is a tautological statement that sounds retarded. And unless you're just spamming buttons (which doesn't count as practice), well.

I had a long post, but screw it. Sponson, I hope you enjoy staying in your lala land. Fighters aren't all about reaction, strategy and execution are also huge parts of fighters too. You may not believe that, but whatever *shrug*.

[Manta]

Has anyone mentioned studying your opponents yet?

Aside from the obvious "He's playing lambda so I have to be a bit more in-you-face than usual", there is another layer of knowledge. People who play in tournaments seems to have very distinct quirks and styles, a lot of which is bourne out of the fact that if you play a style that nobody else does, your opponent is less likely to know how to coutner it. I call that a strategy.

Conversely, studying your opponent to know how they behave and where their muscle memory lies (e.g. he likes to burstbait in this part of his combo, he tends to use that move as part of his mixup etc etc...). Knowing how to punish your opponent for their ingrained habits is strategy in my book.

So the next level of learning is how to make your strategy amourphous as not to be predictable, which in a way is at odds with having muscle memory on your combos.

All of this is something you can do before you've even heard "Rebel 1! Action!".

[Mizzet]

You guys are pretty much arguing over semantics at this point.

Execution - this one comes with practice and without it, you won't get very far as you will not be able to capitalize on anything.

Strategy - this is a more nebulous concept. Knowing what can punish what and what can reverse what is part of matchup knowledge and learning the frame data. It's very easy to quantify such information and it's not really strategy per se. Choosing to end a combo differently, sacrificing damage for oki or corner setup, that's a better example of strategy. Likewise, getting a good read on your opponent so you can better predict his wakeup habits is part of strategy. When it comes to strategy there is no 100% payoff like how x will punish y every time if you do it right, it's all about choosing the best option out of a constantly shifting set of possibilities. Strategy is pretty easily differentiated by the human element involved, compared to something like matchup knowledge which is just data.

So yes, you will not win on reaction alone.

[GenoWhirl]

Now you too can experience the truthy truth of the True Fighter's Mentality(Trademark)

PANAMA WAS JUST TRYING TO PROTECT ME

[Sponson]

You guys are pretty much arguing over semantics at this point.

Execution - this one comes with practice and without it, you won't get very far as you will not be able to capitalize on anything.

Strategy - this is a more nebulous concept. Knowing what can punish what and what can reverse what is part of matchup knowledge and learning the frame data. It's very easy to quantify such information and it's not really strategy per se. Choosing to end a combo differently, sacrificing damage for oki or corner setup, that's a better example of strategy. Likewise, getting a good read on your opponent so you can better predict his wakeup habits is part of strategy. When it comes to strategy there is no 100% payoff like how x will punish y every time if you do it right, it's all about choosing the best option out of a constantly shifting set of possibilities. Strategy is pretty easily differentiated by the human element involved, compared to something like matchup knowledge which is just data.

So yes, you will not win on reaction alone.

All valid points, nothing I can really refute at this point. So the claim is that strategy isn't a quantifiable situation in which an outcome has a clear advantage.

I had a long post, but screw it. Sponson, I hope you enjoy staying in your lala land. Fighters aren't all about reaction, strategy and execution are also huge parts of fighters too. You may not believe that, but whatever *shrug*.

>Make an argument with no solid points

>Someone disagrees and points out flaws in statement.

>Exaggerate everything, ignore everything, attack them verbally.

>VICTORY!

Yeah... you're original statement was that you need more reflex and instincts and less strategy and practice with non-fighter games. I'm still calling bullshit on that. If you want to discuss go ahead but I already gave my 2 cents about starcraft, and you didn't even bother with that.

And I'll still also call bullshit on not needing a healthy amount of reflex and instincts in a fighter game.