XDest Report post Posted January 2, 2010 Taokaka CS Frame Data Taunt Loop: Remember this. (Taunt -> 214D -> WAIT -> j.2D~B [hit]) xN Links into Starts: Linked into 6A: 5B, 6B -> 5B, j.C -> 5B, j.C -> 66 -> 5B, 2A -> 5B, 2B, 6B -> D~B [hit] -> 5B, CH AnyD~A -> 5B, CH AnyD~B -> 5B Linked into 3C: 5B, 6B -> 5B, j.C -> 5B, j.C -> 66 -> 5B, 2A, 5C, 6B -> D~B [hit] -> 5B, CH AnyD~A -> 5B, CH AnyD~B -> 5B Linked into 6C: CH 2C, CH j.C (falling, air-to-air), CH j.C (crouching) **6B -> 5B is character specific to Noel, Rachel, Litchi, Hazama and Tsubaki, 6B -> j.D~B -> 5B works only against larger characters, or in the corner. Taunt Combo Starts: BnB Taunt Start 6A -> JC -> j.2D~B -> Taunt Loop Corner Taunt Start 3C -> D~B [hit] -> Taunt Loop Big Damage Start 6C -> 66 -> Taunt Loop CH Drive Cancel Start (opp. in air, CH) j.D~B/4D~B/2D~A [hit] -> 66 -> Taunt Loop Throw Taunt Starts 4B+C -> 214D -> 44 -> 2D~B [hit] -> Taunt Loop B+C -> j.4D~B [hit] -> Taunt Loop Burst Taunt Start Gold Burst -> 6C -> Taunt Loop Crawling Taunt Start 3C -> D~B [hit] -> 66 -> Taunt Loop Drive Rapid Cancel CH 5D/j.4D/[2]7D -> 6C -> 66 -> Taunt Loop Non Taunt Combo Starts (Less Damage, obviously): 3C -> D~B [hit] -> 5C 3C -> D~B [no hit] -> 5B 5C 6C -> 236CC 4B+C -> 236CC (opp. in air, CH) j.D~B -> 5B/5C OR j.D~B -> 66 -> 5B/5C (depends on character) (opp. in air, CH) j.C -> 5C 2D~5 -> 6D~6 Recommended Combo Enders: Corner (Full taunts): Taunt Loop -> 214D -> j.2D~B -> 5C -> 2D~5 -> j.D~A -> 9D~5 -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [4235] Fullscreen (Full taunts): Taunt Loop -> 236CC -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [4001] Corner Oki (Full -1 taunts): Taunt Loop -> 214D -> j.2D~C -> ... -> j.D~A -> Taunt -> 214D -> j.236Bx5 -> (Opt 236236D/j.B j.C/Any aerial) [~3700/~4000] Fullscreen/Character Specific (Full taunts): Taunt Loop -> 214D -> j.2D~B -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [~4200] Possible Non-Taunt/Low-Taunt Combo Enders When all else fails (Level 0): 2D~C -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 or 2D~6 -> .. -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 2+ hits linked before 3C (ie j.C -> 66 -> 5B -> 3C) (Level 1): 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [3070] or 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [3186] Off 5B->3C (Mu, Rachel) (Level 2): 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [3520] Off 5B->3C (Most characters except Litchi, Mu, Rachel) (Level 3): 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> .. 9D~9 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 [3650] Off 236CC [~3750], 5C->3C [~4350], j.B+C->5C [~3700] or 6C->236CC [~4700], 3C itself (Level 4): 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> j.2D~A -> 9D~5 -> 6D~6 -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236B -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 or 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> 6D~6 -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236B -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 Off 2D normal hit [4152] or CH air j.C/j.B->land [~3750]: 2D~5 -> 6D~6 -> j.C -> .. 9D~9 -> j.2D~C -> j.C -> .. -> 9D~9 -> 3D~3 -> j.236B -> 3D~3 -> j.236Bx5 *Extra 3D~3 ->j.236B for 2D start. *The levels refer to untechable time. All lower level type combos can be used in higher level situations for slightly less damage, if the hitbox allows it. But the opposite is not true at all. * The levels can also be used for low taunt combos, the lower the amount of taunt loops, the higher the untechable time, the higher the level. As a general note, 5C provides more untechable time than 236CC. Max Taunt Loop enders use Level 1 untechable time. * If you do 22C instead of 5C, for most things add a level. 22C has basically no proration. **j.2D~C can be replaced by j.D~C in the corner to make these combos easier. j.2D~C is character specific and might have to be timed differently on different characters. Cat2 Loop In non-taunt combos: End with (3D~3 -> j.236B)xN before finishing with j.236Bx5. Number of Taunts List: 2B: 2x [2800] j.C/j.B: 3x [3569] 5B: 6x [4235] CH 2C -> 6C: 14x [6832] 6C: 12x [6800] j.B+C: 7x [4666] 4B+C: 7x [4466] B+C: 6x [4445] CH j.D~B (air to ground): 4x [~4000] CH j.D~B (air to air): 10x [~5600] (alternate ender required.) CH 2D j.4D~B: 7x [~5800] Gold Burst: 8x [~3800] Blocked Burst into Taunt: 13x [6924] Combos into Supers 6B -> 236236D 6C -> 214214C 5B/2B -> 5C -> 236236D 4B+C -> 236236D/214214C j.B+C -> 236236D/214214C Taunt Loop -> 214214C Air combo -> j.236Bx5 -> RC -> Gold Burst -> .. -> 236236D 6C -> [4]28D 4B+C -> [4]28D Almost Becoming Two Ender Taunt Loop (max) -> AB2 -> 236C(1) -> 6C -> 6C -> HJC7 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC9 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC8 -> j.236Bx5 [+2000 off any taunt loop] For non-taunt: (Corner) 3C -> AB2 -> 6C -> 6C -> HJC7 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC9 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC8 -> j.236Bx5 [+2000] Tager specific: Taunt Loop (max) -> AB2 -> 236C(1) -> 6C -> HJC7 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC9 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC8 -> j.236Bx5 [+2000 off any taunt loop] Jin specific: Taunt Loop (max) -> AB2 -> 236C(1) -> 6C -> JC7 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC9 -> j.236Bx5 -> JC8 -> j.236Bx5 [+2000 off any taunt loop] Other AB2 Enders Taunt->AB2->Cat1->JC->j.D~6->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5 Taunt->AB2->Cat1->HJC7->j.2D~6->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5 Taunt->AB2->Cat1->4D~6->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5 Taunt->AB2->Taunt->Cat3->Cat1->HJC7->j.2D~5->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5 (Arakune only) Taunt->AB2->Low hitting Cat2x5->JC7->Cat2x5->JC8->Cat2x5 Green Grab Aerial Resets Forward/Backward Taunt Loop -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.C -> j.D~C -> 66 -> j.B+C Taunt Loop -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.2D~C -> 66 -> j.B+C Taunt Loop -> 214D -> 66 -> j.B+C Neutral Taunt Loop -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.C -> j.D~A -> 66 -> j.B+C Taunt Loop -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.D~A -> 66 -> j.B+C Character Specific notes: * 5B->3C combos do not work properly on Hazama or Litchi. * 5B->6A does not work when Hazama, Tsubaki or Mu are crouching. Hazama and Tsubaki can get hit with the 6A if something is linked before the 5B. * Taunt->j.2D~B->5C->2D~5 requires you the opponent to be at a low height vs. Lambda, Mu, Makoto, Tsubaki, Rachel, Litchi. It is easier to do Taunt->236CC vs. these characters instead because of this. Keep your opponent's current height in the combo in mind before attempting a 5C ender vs. these characters. Against characters like Hazama, Carl and Jin, it's actually better that they start high in the corner when doing the 5C, otherwise the j.236Bx5 can whiff. * 5B -> 6A -> JC -> .. -> j.D~B -> Taunt is how you can start a taunt loop against Arakune. You have to also use one less taunt and a 236CC ender if you do that. But it's much easier to just non-taunt combo him instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 24, 2010 A couple notes about j.236B j.2D~5/6 (aka the cat2 loop) - It's character specific. - You can end off most horizontal drive loops with j.C j.236B j.2D~6 j.236Bx5 (For example 3C 6D~6 j.C 6D~6 j.C 6D~6 j.C j.236B j.2D~6 j.236Bx5 is possible on several characters.) You can use this in a lot of combos where you simply cannot get taunts in (like air-to-air combos) - With ending 6C taunt loops, you can end with something like 236CC j.C 9D~9 j.C JC j.C j.236B j.2D~5 j.236B j.2D~6 if you're not near the max number of taunts. 6C 236CC without taunts can end off the exact same way for around 4150. Haven't tried to see if you could get a third cat2 loop in there. - On some characters, j.236BB j.2D~6 j.236Bx5 is possible at certain heights. - j.C JC j.C j.236B 2D~6 j.236Bx5 is also very possible as a combo finish. - Pretty sure that if you have an air dash left, j.C j.236B j.2D~6 j.236Bx5 is possible there too. - Ending off a taunt combo with 5C instead of 236CC should make more cat2 loops possible. But it might end up being not all that more damage for a good bit more effort. At least it'll look cool, haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 24, 2010 So in the end what's the recommended ender for her taunt BnB's? The first two seem to be the easiest ones for sure. Single taunt combos are truly stupid easy to execute in CS, her ~b cancel it's so ridiculously better. Taunt loops do require quite some muscle memory and timing though, I'm still not getting them consistently. Cool thing I noticed is that the horizontal drive loop works on the small hitbox characters, too bad it does poor damage compared to the taunt bnbs. But it may be a viable solution for those who still want to land a decent combo while still learning all the taunt loop setups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 24, 2010 That's a good question. 6C gives you a LOT of freedom in untechable time, even with 7-10 taunt loops attached. 6A not so much. I couldn't even do one cat2 loop off of a 6A taunt loop without using 5C instead of 236CC. But I don't know if it'd be worth it to be prorated more from the 5C. It'll need testing I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 By the way, is the 5C inputted after the taunt or after the j.2d~b? I guess using 5C at the end of the taunt loop string gives a little more freedom when picking the ender, while 236CC leaves less options. I still instictively find myself using 236CC though, it's a CT habit I have due to having practiced those damn taunt combos before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 25, 2010 After the j.2D~B. Taunt only links into specials and supers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Aight, thought so since it was the only possible way to get it connected and I was wondering if there was an other way. Gotta drill the damn loops into muscle memory, the highest I got was four repetitions before I screwed the timing for the following one. Once I got to the corner it kinda became a little tricky with the taunt string... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Yeah, it's a lot easier to do outside of the corner because there are visual cues for the timing. And when you get into the corner it feels like it speeds up somewhat oddly. btw, you have to delay between the 214D and the j.D~B the correct amount to get it over 2-4 loops. If you don't have that delay down, then you won't get the loop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Hmm... well back in CT I used to do a quick transition with the stick from 4 to 3 between 214D and the j.2d~b input, but in CS it seems it only works for the first 2/3 repetitions then after that it whiffs. Oh well, I guess with time and practice I'll nail this down. o_o Talking about loops and enders, I think it would be useful to order the latter ones based on the amount of taunt loop repetitions. Like, "you can do this ender after X repetitions" or "this ender cannot be performed if you use all the possible reps". Since I'm still trying to learn the damn loop maybe you or TaoFTW (or any other Tao who already has mastered them) might specify this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Pretty much j.Cx3 j.236Bx5 and j.C 9D~9 j.C JC j.236Bx5 are the only ones that I know of that work with the max amount of taunts to a combo. The rest requires less taunts, or 5C instead of 236CC I think. Also on non-taunt combos, the longer enders are usually available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 What's the max amount of damage that we can squeeze out of a no-taunt loop combo that makes use of the CS2 loop? Does it atleast get into the 3k territory? Between the j.Cx3 j.236Bx5 ender and the j.C 9D~9 j.C JC j.236Bx5 one I seem to have more success in landing the former. You have to be really quick with the latter when doing the j.C JC j.236Bx5 since there is no easy shortcut like the old CT string j.C j.236B (where the input was a 2-in-1). Actually it's not that it's hard, it's just I have the developed the bad habit of holding 9 during the vertical loop even when doing j.C, so I guess I first need to remove that and then just leave the stick at neutral right after the 9D~9 connects so that I can easily do a quick jump cancel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Well, 6C gives a lot more untechable time. So 6C 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C JC j.C j.236B j.2D~6 j.236B j.2D~6 j.236Bx5 will work for around 4200-4300 I believe. The most I've squeezed out of 5B 3C would probably be around 3100-3200 with something like 5B 3C D~B [hit] 5B 2D~6 j.C JC j.C j.236B j.2D~6 j.236Bx5, but there's another combo that does around the same and is much easier, 5B 3C D~B [hit] 5C 236A 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C JC j.236Bx5. No matter how much you put into the combo, you will never get much more than that out of either non-taunt combo start. While with taunt loops, the max for 6C is 6800 and the max for 5B is around 4000. I think the ones that the Japanese already use might be the most efficient. But moving to a 2D~C D~A taunt 214D j.236Bx5 236236D taunt loop ender might be what we want to shoot for because of the oki potential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 I noticed in one of the latest vids where Denpa uses an ender that basically keeps him on ground (using d~a cancels) while getting the 236Bx5 wallbounce+oki. That's probably the type of ender we might want to look into. I'll check that clip again later and post that combo here, hoping it's not too character specific. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pirateyoshi Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Is that anything like the combo ender I was talking about in the CS discussion thread? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 hmmm.... ...yep, except the starter wasn't a 2D in that video. I'm going to watch it again and note it down. [edit]There it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vE1u3rW4Q#t=01m07s [...] 214D > j.2D~C > j.5D~A > Taunt > 214D > 236Bx5 3.8k damage off a back-throw taunt loop setup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Is it just me or does the timing of the 214D > j.2D~B really does change once Tao gets to the corner during the loop? I mean, as long as I'm doing it midscreen it seems I can pull it off, once I get to the corner it either blackbeats or whiffs because Tao basically lands "earlier" on the ground compared to the juggled opponent. Maybe I need to speed up the input though... what do you guys do? :X Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PlasticChicken Report post Posted January 25, 2010 I always thought it was way easier in the corners. If people are still having trouble with the taunt loops, its likely that you are not holding the 214d jump long enough and doing the j.2d~b too early which will bounce them too high. The b cancels are stupid easy. What I'm interested in is the best 2a combo. 2a > 5b > 5c > 236xn does mediocre damage compared to ct and it was already bad. The best one I found was: 2a > 5b > 6a > j2d~b > 5c > 2d > j5d~a > 9d~9 > 9d~9 > 236bbbb for just a little over 2k. It only works in the corner. So far I've been using Throw > 4d~b > taunt loop and back throw > 214d > 6c > taunt loop. Both does over 4k. I'm going to try those backthrow > 214d > 44 > 2d~b > taunt loops soon and see how they compare. I'm still not consistent with the taunt combos but with a lot of practice I think tao's damage is something to be feared. Watching all the bang and ragna players make a perfect transition to CS makes me a little sad. That being said, I think you really have to squeeze every little damage you can from her combos due to lack of a good oki game and lower health. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 25, 2010 Yeah, Tao really needs to capitalize on the damage she gets off a combo, no oki setups in CS means no chance to immediately reapply pressure and with such low health and defense she's pretty much "forced" to play super aggressive and make every hitconfirm count a lot. You can't really dick around too much with her. If people are still having trouble with the taunt loops, its likely that you are not holding the 214d jump long enough and doing the j.2d~b too early which will bounce them too high. I think this is what I've been doing wrong, the opponent would bounce too high and the next taunt would either whiff or bluebeat. I somehow fixed this by not rushing the j.2d~b input after the 214d, basically trying to keep the same timing that I have between the 6a and the j.2d~b and I finally completed the basic taunt loop. I still need to work on consistency though, this is really a string that relies heavily on muscle memory and looking for visual clues may be misleading at first due to the fact that each character kind of bounces on the ground differently. It's that kind of string that one should be supposed to perform in autopilot mode with eyes closed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 So, how does the extra 6th CS2 hit in the corner come about? I've seen it a good bit when testing cat2 loop enders. It provides a good chunk of extra damage (like 300). Does it only work on the bigger hitbox characters? More testing seems to be needed here. Also if you can do something like j.2D after that 6th hit for even more damage remains to be seen and should be tested. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 28, 2010 Non-Corner taunt loop: His body should be around where your crotch is. Sizable delay between 214D and j.2D~B Corner taunt loop: His body should be around where your head is, maybe slightly lower. Less delay between the two moves. If you're getting closer to the corner, start to speed up your rhythm slightly so that you can start doing the corner type motion seamlessly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 28, 2010 Non-Corner taunt loop: His body should be around where your crotch is. Sizable delay between 214D and j.2D~B Corner taunt loop: His body should be around where your head is, maybe slightly lower. Less delay between the two moves. If you're getting closer to the corner, start to speed up your rhythm slightly so that you can start doing the corner type motion seamlessly. So there IS a shift in timing when approaching the corner, as I thought. On an other note, I noticed that even Kazu (besides Denpa) likes to go for the ender 214D > j.2D~C > j.5D~A > 214D > 236Bx5 when doing the taunt loop. It seems to be her best ender since it also gets wallslam+knockdown and oki and it doesn't seem character specific either. This will probably become her new #1 ender on loop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XDest Report post Posted January 28, 2010 Yeah, there definitely is. Was able to get very close to the maximum with this shift in rhythm. I'm having some trouble with 2D~C D~A taunt though, they always end up too high for the taunt. Potentially, if you have the heat you can probably bypass that step and go straight to a hexa-edge or pounce super and still get knockdown. But of course the former method doesn't need heat unless you want it to. But then there's the simple fact that you're probably getting a bunch of heat from the start of the taunt loop itself. Meaning taunt > super is probably the other viable option for a knockdown if you don't have that down yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 28, 2010 I'd rather save that meter for her counterassault. She needs it more than ever now with less health and poor defense. So all in all, I'll try to work on that ender and possibly avoid having to splash 50% just to get a knockdown at the end of the loop. Unless the damage caused by adding the super at the end is really worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RinHara5aki Report post Posted January 28, 2010 I'm having trouble ending combo's I keep recieving 236bbbb(drop), instead of 236bbbb~wallbounce... My combo i've been using is 5b -> 6a(1hit) -> JC -> 5d~b -> taunt -> 236cc -> 2d~9 -> j.c -> 5d~9 -> j.c -> JC -> j.c -> 236bbbb (Miss or hit wallbounce?!?) Single taunt combo's for now.. but I dunno, it obviously has to do with height. It really irks me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronove Report post Posted January 28, 2010 5d~9? Isn't it a 9d? Anyway, what I do is quickly input 8 (to jump cancel) while pressing C and immediately shift the stick down to do the 236 input. I get all 5 hits without any problem. If you get four hits it means Tao is not high enough (so either you were a tad slow during the JC bit or you screwed it up somewhere else). on an other note, I followed XDest's tip and I can do the taunt loop at the corner now, however when I got back to try the loop midscreen it would bluebeat everytime... Damn this loop and its tricky timing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites