GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Compensating for FD doesn't make you have to leave a gap. Actually for some characters, FDing does nothing to their rushdown. See Eddie or Dizzy or Venom, who don't get pushback during their rushdowns anyway. And guard bar is insanely important to a lot of character in the game. Flash guard bar is not that important, but even a little guard bar built up massively increases the damage of combos, and it's certainly very easy for characters like Jam to get some guard bar on you. Just from this weekend's tournament I can tell you pretty obviously so can Ky (with meter), Slayer, ABA, Testament, Sol, and more. FDing isn't going to save you, people can and do know how to deal with you FDing everything, especially Jam players. Also you lecturing Jais on anything is pretty hilarious.

[FlashMetroid]

FDing isn't going to save you, people can and do know how to deal with you FDing everything, especially Jam players.

This is true especially the jam players part lol

FD overall imo is pretty useless

[Kryian]

That post and your avatar don't match. Anyways, you've so far shown me two cases out of millions of matches, and in those cases it only happened for one round. When doing statistics this is no more then a rounding error.

Guard gauge affects EVERY match and EVERY character. Sure in most cases it's not as profound as Chipp and Millia dying in one combo, but just a small portion of built guard meter can have a pretty decent impact on combos. Blocking small block strings before getting mixed up can lead to as much as 60 additional damage in many character's basic loops and combos. Just go in to training mode and set the dummy's guard bar at...let's say 20 (that's just one un-faultlessed May hard slash, one Slayer Mappa, one Jam 6HS). In any character's dust combo or similarly long combo/loop that's going to be 60+ points of extra damage, and if you think people don't let 20 points of guard meter be built on them.....yeah

[Chomite]

I believe Johnny does 50 more damage with his BnB when opponent's guard guage is up around 30?(I can't remember now...It's been a while I was experiment with guard guage stuff) And that is really easy to build up since all you need is making opponent guard just 5HS. 50 is not a small damage by all means. Guard guage is def. something to look out for you and your opponent.

[Honnou]

That post and your avatar don't match. Anyways, you've so far shown me two cases out of millions of matches, and in those cases it only happened for one round. When doing statistics this is no more then a rounding error.

Why are you so thick-headed? Blocking is safe, usually safer than guessing a way out. Sometimes you DO get stuck and block a lot, and your guard gauge DOES get jacked up, even if you're good. It is not always so simple as to instant block everything and backdash, or FD and push them out of range. I can think of A LOT of example matches where this has happened too, and it's not just a "rounding error". "Good players don't get their guard gauge built up"? Haha.

4:00!!!!! I GUESS YUKINOSE IS AN AWFUL PLAYER BECAUSE HE HAD A HIGH GUARD GAUGE!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71iqSj8goUQ

[Doomscyther]

How can you even debate gaurd gauge isnt a factor just by playing a decent Aba player. Pfft JO doing 5HS counter hit at flashing bar = your def wont mean shyt to what is about to happen. For example, with robo ky, I might oki with 3x 5HS frc which for most characters it will raise gaurd damage to flashing, allowing for high lvl damage, or even just a CH tick throw. Some see it as a waste of tension, I see it as a way to do out of the box mix-ups. "Guard Gauge is building Fear"

[koogy]

FD will save you from canned, non-reaction strings. but flash is generally right; FD will not save you against a smart, fast reacting player. if jam does some generic training mode string with no experience vs. a real person, they will be owned by FDing at careful intervals. however, if they react to their pushback results, and run up -> throw you or whatever, you die. :o

[reaVer]

Honnou: I'm not even bothering to watch that vid, yeah you need to block things and as a person who stresses defense I know very well what risks and safeties are bound to it. What you don't seem to comprehend is that you're applying your own 'sometimes' to always. When talking about tiers, 'sometimes' won't cut it. It's same as with OS being top tier with lvl3, to bad that happens 'sometimes', or perhaps saiten's clean hit storage that could happen 'sometimes', on which members of the board already decided that that specific case does not apply to Sol's max damage. Koogy: run up -> throw, doesn't uphold against the gap-less FD compensation constraint.

[低姿勢]

again please do not imply that what the japanese have just now found out, is the limit of my knowledge of the game. You can combo a character, and then store the property for later in the round. Do not try and think that you have to drop a combo to get a bigger combo ora nything to that exstent.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

This is true especially the jam players part lol

FD overall imo is pretty useless

I wouldn't say FD is pretty useless but you definitely have to use it along with OTHER techniques to be effective.

lol giberish

Okay it's not just the alcohol that made me unable to understand wtf he is trying to say there.

Long story short, Guard Gauge is really important in the grand scheme of things, but more important for some characters than others. Even small amounts of guard gauge can be important, and large amounts can end the match in a single combo.

[POscrub]

I think people missed my point of tossing out Wild Throw and CH's. I was talking about analyzing a particular branch of Sol's combo options. Like say you tagged someone with a 2P for whatever reason, what's the most damaging guaranteed followup you have now? Doing a Wild Throw or Gunflame would uncombo in that situation. I didn't mean, Sol never lands Wild Throw or CH Gunflame in general.

Anyways. Another speed job, unproofed, semi-incomplete. I'll probably finish it some other time.

Dizzy:

• Max damage B: Bubble combo is her strongest. Damage ranges between 50% and somewhere between 70 and 80%. Doesn't get the opportunity to land this combo much though.
• Average Damage C: A hit -> ground gatling typically results in about 30% damage.
• Pokes B: Dizzy has lots of options here, the variety makes up for the particular weaknesses of the individual pokes, Grade reflects the overall ability of all her pokes taken together.
• Pressure/Lockdown B+: Rather than pressure, you should be thinking more about mixups. She can't do the ??? special anymore, plus she doesn't raise the guard bar much. Nothing really special here. [??? I hate names, so I won't bother guessing. Setup for Slash Dizzy was Ice Spike, P Fish, Scythe, Spear, K Bubble -> Followup. Follow up being

  1) air dash j.P,j.P, j.H (high),

  2) (land) 2D xx Ice Spike FRC -> combo (low hit),

  3) (land) dash up throw]

  [by nothing really special here, I think it's compared to what it used to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx43R86GnTw, see round 4, starts at 2:27 or so]

• Mixups A: Throw range [Longer than usual], Double airdash can setup 50/50's, lots of options and [renkei] is strong.
• Okizeme A: Loopability, Damage, difficulty for opponent to block properly. Dizzy's oki is strong in all of these categories.
• Against ground C: Not good. j.K has a crazy hitbox, but not much downwards coverage, j. 2S, Dizzy's hitbox is a lot bigger than her attack's hitbox.
• Anti-air B: 2S is pretty good. But that alone isn't what makes her AA strong. j. P, Ice Spear, and Air throw should all be used liberally.
• Breaking out of Pressure D: Given rating reflects the fact that although Dizzy's counterattack options are poor, it's easy for her to run away. In terms of actual counter attack options, her best are the unreliable Imperial Ray [disappears if Dizzy gets hit, trades poorly], Necro Coffin Super, and close S.
• Defense E: Takes extra damage, easy to dizzy, no guts, and has a big hitbox.
• In general B: Bubble makes for a great deterrent. Add to that her double air dash which gives her good mobility, and Imperial Ray can be used if she wants to create some distance.
• Overall Rank D: Weaker character, hard to win with
• Good matchups: Probably Potemkin. Dizzy should do well against Testament too. [Guess] Anyone else she can get set up on easily.
• Bad matchups: Chipp, Ky, Faust, + characters who specialize in mid range combat.

[eien_tsubasa XD]

Anji Mito

• Average Damage B+: 25% tension for 40% damage regardless of position on screen.
• Max Damage C+: Pretty much the same as his average damage. Putting in more tension doesn't raise damage much.
• Pokes C-: Pokes aren't safe (recovery), but have good payoff on CH. Average range on his pokes.
• Pressure/Lockdown B-: Butterfly gives him good lockdown capabilities. Surprisingly good, despite lacking of moves with positive SD (frame advantage)
• Mixup B: Anji has lots of mixup shenanigans.
• Okizeme B+: Lots of options that loop, and not easy to interrupt [by counter attacking]
• Against Ground B: Nothing really noteworthy, j. D to throw off AA timing, j. S has good priority
• Against Air B+: Weakened greatly since Slash, but 5P is easy to use AA, GP (autoguard), and his most damaging option, air throw, is as strong as ever.
• Breaking out of Pressure A: GP (autoguards), HS Fuujin is invincible from frame 1, Anji is blessed with a lot of options in this category
• Defense B: Normal defense modifier, but Anji has GUTS! GUTS! [Guts 5, best in the game]
• In general C: Doesn't control space that well, not very mobile either, a bit reliant on the threat of HS Fuujin here
• Overall Rank: C
• Good matchup(s): Personally, I'd say I-no
• Bad matchups Axl, May: Axl because he zones too well, May because she just flat out outdamages Anji

what makes i-no one of his good matchups?

[Darkhonor90]

what makes i-no one of his good matchups?

Im guessing her ability to travel is pretty bad when fighting anji since he has alot of pokes that can beat out everything she tries to do. 5P,3K,6S,Butterfly,5HS etc etc. It should make it difficult for her to travel and mixup.

She doesn't seem to have many good ways to escape pressure so once shes in the coner and she gets butterflyed its very difficult to escape the traps.

She also takes damage like crazy and anji's ability to do good 40% damage from 25% is now turned to around 50 or 55%.

Thats what I can imagine

[Injuin]

Can't Anji double butterfly Potemkin?

[Darkhonor90]

Can't Anji double butterfly Potemkin?

He can but that doesn't make Potemkin a good matchup just a bit easier.

Plus double buttefly is a pain int he ass to do

[Tiamat]

imo his best matchups are potemkin and himself. lol. I lack exp vs I-no so I wouldn't know about that

here's an old anji vs I-no match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qs-Vw_xWO4

[TheSlyMoogle]

Can't Anji double butterfly Potemkin?

Anji can double butterfly anyone, but more specifically it's actually useful against a cornered pot.

What actually makes anji a threat to pot is his ability to fuujin everything from pot. Wake up slide head = Free Fuujin, full screen away slide head = free fuujin. Pretty much anything pot does as oki against Anji = Free fuujin. Unless he throws wake up PB. Then you just feel silly for your fuujin.

[Kasou]

Guard meter raising doesn't affect matchplay

sorry, i don't understand where you're coming from. Can you elaborate in detail? Are you talking about building and damage caused by guard meter should be factored out of tier lists? (possibly cause it's situational? Or cause it's more dependent on the players than the actual character?) I'm sure you have a point somewhere but I think you just haven't explained yourself clearly. Sorry

[reaVer]

Seems, I made an error there now I look at it:P What I mean is that it's not exactly a common sight to see someone's guard gauge get raped and then he was dumb enough to get hit. Yes, it does happen, even amongst the mighty Japanese, but it's a rare sight(4 matchvids so far out of how many japanese matchvids in existance? And how many rounds?). So generally/statistically seen the effects of guard gauge are neglect able. Now this is (supposed to be) a tier discussion thread, here you expect common case scenario and raised guard effects are far from common, you don't see those effects pop up every round and the Japanese(and I don't care for any other group when discussing tiers) players usually guard in such a way their gauge doesn't get build(IG/FD combo). Though it can happen they lack the tension to do so as happened with P.C vs MDR(hence I said the gold burst was cheap) and that Johnny vs A.B.A.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Guard Gauge still increases with Impact Guard, only FD and Slash Back prevent it from increasing. I don't know what you mean by IG/FD combo since you can't do both at the same time to get the benefits from both.

[reaVer]

combo->combination, so the mix between those to, where FD is used to increase knockback and IG is used to decrease blockstun at the right times.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Works well on common strings, but against characters like Jam who can mix up strings to a high degree, it doesn't sound like the most reliable thing in the world. Nobody can perfectly determine when to properly guard every string.

[reaVer]

So you use some originality and creativity so they can't predict whether you're gonna FD or IG the next attack.

[Pwnzor]

Anji can double butterfly anyone, but more specifically it's actually useful against a cornered pot.

What actually makes anji a threat to pot is his ability to fuujin everything from pot. Wake up slide head = Free Fuujin, full screen away slide head = free fuujin. Pretty much anything pot does as oki against Anji = Free fuujin. Unless he throws wake up PB. Then you just feel silly for your fuujin.

True you have all day to fuujin slide head, but you can't exactly fuujin everything pot does on wakeup, a meaty 5k will beat out hs fuujin.

[Ryu]

Honnou: I'm not even bothering to watch that vid, yeah you need to block things and as a person who stresses defense I know very well what risks and safeties are bound to it. What you don't seem to comprehend is that you're applying your own 'sometimes' to always. When talking about tiers, 'sometimes' won't cut it. It's same as with OS being top tier with lvl3, to bad that happens 'sometimes', or perhaps saiten's clean hit storage that could happen 'sometimes', on which members of the board already decided that that specific case does not apply to Sol's max damage.

Koogy: run up -> throw, doesn't uphold against the gap-less FD compensation constraint.

Why is my name here? You dont know what your taking about. Neither does the people who said Sol's clean doesnt apply to Sol's max damage. Blocking happens alot in every fighting game. That includes GG. Your meter is going to raise. Of course you can use FD but then you use up all your tension....

Robo-Ky:

* Max damage A: Robo-Ky can deal up to 80% even with forced proration + possible dizzy off missile combo in the corner, although the opportunities to land said combo are quite rare.

^^Thats from first page. Need I say more? "rare" is even less than sometimes.