GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[Hatred Edge]

notice all the characters he listed as good matchups for I-no are characters with totally ass anti pressure options

So Testament doesn't have strong AA's....fine.

But Potemkin? He can 6P Order-Sol's SV. The only things I say that I-no has going for her vs Potemkin is that A)He's slow, B)She's very mobile, C) He lacks fast reversals.

And BMS seems to have forgotten Pot and flick the Note FRCed or not. In one very disgusting vs Eddie match, I-no fired a Note and Eddie reflected it and it hit I-no killing her.

When someone can REVERSE your rushdown/pressure/mixup tool you must remember that.

Personally I wouldn't say I-no has a bad AA. I'd say more of an average AA.

As for her best matchup.. jeez. That's tough. Don't know who....

I really don't think these are favorable matchups for her at all. I wouldn't say they're 7-3 either. The odds are better than that.

[Spirit Juice]

Potemkin because it's relitvely easy to connect a note to a slow Potemkin, even a blocked note can lead into a real nice combo, especially on Potemkin's huge hitbox. I-No is just suseptable to a Potemkin Buster as the next charachter but it's a 50/50 chance of who will throw who. I-No can land into a throw, and throw in pretty much any other situation where a Potemkin would attempt a PB. She can even throw him out of his force break and his backdash PB bullshit. Not to mention she also has far superior mobility. You can quickly escape a failed attempt to break his gaurd, spit another note and attempt again. (unless he anticipates it and uses that stupid air grab move) The biggest threat in this match is yourself, playing sloppy and unsafe.

To be fair, I haven't really played a decent Eddie, but I-No has alot of tools that help her escape Eddie's setups. She also has alot of ways to punish Eddie's moves in the event he misses a FRC. You just have to remember he can do that stupid little reflect move that'll punish you for a HCL poke and a keep a look out for a FB drill. His biggest threat is if he catches you, but Notes make that a difficult task.

For Potemkin, you do realize Potemkin Buster is throw invul on start up, right? Not sure how you can say she can throw Potemkin in situations he would attempt to PB since it's throw invul.

In general, mid-screen to full-screen notes are bad against Eddie since they have easy ways of dealing with them.

As for Eddie, I'm not really sure what tools you're talking about that she can use to escape set ups. She doesn't have anything to escape unblockables or pressure, and Nobiru reaches up pretty far to prevent you from jumping away or advancing at all. Also, not hitting an FRC? Which FRC are you talking about? Drill FRC? That's the only FRC Eddie will use (maybe Damned Fang FRC, but that's rare to use and it's only usable when you get hit by it anyways so...), and even on block it's completely safe.

[bucklemyshoe]

So Testament doesn't have strong AA's....fine.

But Potemkin? He can 6P Order-Sol's SV. The only things I say that I-no has going for her vs Potemkin is that A)He's slow, B)She's very mobile, C) He lacks fast reversals.

And BMS seems to have forgotten Pot and flick the Note FRCed or not. In one very disgusting vs Eddie match, I-no fired a Note and Eddie reflected it and it hit I-no killing her.

When someone can REVERSE your rushdown/pressure/mixup tool you must remember that.

Personally I wouldn't say I-no has a bad AA. I'd say more of an average AA.

As for her best matchup.. jeez. That's tough. Don't know who....

I really don't think these are favorable matchups for her at all. I wouldn't say they're 7-3 either. The odds are better than that.

While those are valid points, theres 2 things that don't make them as bad you say. 1st, just because you spit a note doesn't mean you have to rush in. If you're far enough away, a note will hit 5 times, wich is more than enough time to decide what to do. A flicked note is not the end of the match, it just gives Potemkin a bit of time to gain some ground. a super jump, back dash will set you up to release another note. Also considering theres 2 different speeds notes travel, it's not the easiest thing to FDB. Second, while it's possible for a reflected note to hit you, you still have control of it after it's been reflected. Forcing it to ride the ground is a fairly safe way to avoid it.

EDIT: I also remember seeing some vids where Koichi actually slashbacked the flick and used it to his advantage.

[Hatred Edge]

Still not seeing how this is a favorable matchup for her BMS. We're talking Potemkin here. he defies logic.

[bucklemyshoe]

For Potemkin, you do realize Potemkin Buster is throw invul on start up, right? Not sure how you can say she can throw Potemkin in situations he would attempt to PB since it's throw invul.

In general, mid-screen to full-screen notes are bad against Eddie since they have easy ways of dealing with them.

As for Eddie, I'm not really sure what tools you're talking about that she can use to escape set ups. She doesn't have anything to escape unblockables or pressure, and Nobiru reaches up pretty far to prevent you from jumping away or advancing at all. Also, not hitting an FRC? Which FRC are you talking about? Drill FRC? That's the only FRC Eddie will use (maybe Damned Fang FRC, but that's rare to use and it's only usable when you get hit by it anyways so...), and even on block it's completely safe.

I don't know about all the technical info, I do know that I've thrown Potemkin out of alot of situations where he could go for a PB easy.

I was refering to the ariel 63214+S or 41236+S whatever it is FRC.

Also, about escaping set ups. If Little Eddie manages to get behind I-No when she dashes in both a HCL FRC 44 VCL or a TK UF can kill him. If in front, a low poke can kill him as well as be followed up by Stroke the Big Tree, Chemical Love, or other pokes, depending on distance.

EDIT: Also, I'm not asking you guys to agree, I'm just stating things from my perspective. If I had my choice of charachters to face off against, I would go for the Potemkin's and Testements before anyone else because I feel those are the easier matches for I-No. (not taking the player actually in control of them into account)

[bucklemyshoe]

Still not seeing how this is a favorable matchup for her BMS. We're talking Potemkin here. he defies logic.

Okay, well to be fair, please point out what superior tools Potemkin has against I-No?

[Spirit Juice]

Okay, well to be fair, please point out what superior tools Potemkin has against I-No?

Potemkin Buster.

[bucklemyshoe]

Potemkin Buster.

well I heard in Guilty Gear XXX I-No has a j.p follow up move called Guitar Slam Crusher. At the start of the round when you say fuck thinking and hover dash in for a j.p right in big bad Potemkin's face she immediatly lands and and hits him over the head with her guitar, cracking his skull and slightly making her guitar out of tune for her revamped solo. Also, this move can be considered an instant kill and the input is j.p > p. (but going into IK mode is not required)

EDIT: WAIT WAIT! I just heard more about it. I guess this move is also going to have a special feature called "Force Time Rewind". Apparently the cancel has a 60 frame input window and by cancelling for the minimum cost of 1% tension you can actually rewind the clock and try the move again incase you missed it the first time.

[Hatred Edge]

1.6P beats everything aerial except the Note. 2.His 5K(or2k) is so good on wakeup. 3.Potemkin Buster. IT'S AN INVINCBLE GRAB THAT DOES AT LEAST 140 DAMAGE AND CAN BE FRCed. 4.He can do HUGE damage EASY. 5.Has more range than I-no. 6.His air throw range is what I-no's USED to be. Don't underestimate Potemkin Buster. It's the butt of jokes sometimes but that move is one of the best moves in GG. Now is the matchup 7-3? No. 6-4 maybe not.... The main thing I say I-no has going for her in this fight is her great High/low/throw game. That throws off Potemkin. That's your best bet to beat him.

[bucklemyshoe]

Okay, I see your way of thinking, that's why we don't see eye to eye on this one. You're looking at as I-No vs Potemkin going toe to toe, which realisticly isn't the case. (and obviously if it was, I-No would lose out horribly) I think his wakeup is irrelevent (even though there is a vid of me contradicting myself) because in most cases I-No is going to use a note as oki instead of anything else in this match up. Second, a smart I-No player isn't going to dash in randomly without atleast a note for cover against anyone, not just Potemkin. Kind of defeating his 6P from your stand point. I can't argue with range (other than hcl) or damage, but it does come at a cost, and Potemkin is alot easier to instant block than most of the cast. FDing can really help I-No out here too, keeping her out of tick throw range. PB is a great move, I never said it wasn't. Problem is I-No really has to make a sloppy mistake in order for Potemkin to catch her with it. Potemkin may have more air throw range, but I guarentee I-No will air throw Potemkin far more times than Potemkin will air throw her. The above makes me think of something I'm surprised I've yet to see. Alot of times, I'll use a note and hope the opponent jumps so I can go for an air-throw. With Potemkin though, he could easily bait the setup and go for an ariel FBPB. HHHmmm.

[Hatred Edge]

Actually I'm looking at it like: You mess up, Potemkin does big damage. Hell if you play a character that HAS to get in close at one point or another you're going toe 2 toe. No I-no player in their right mind dashes in randomly. As an I-no player myself I have a plan. Fact: If I can I will fly in under Note oki/cover. IMO worst case scenario he flicks the Note. Too me while important, not a big deal. My gameplan vs Potemkin: Send in notes, move in cautiously, mix up once in. He attempts to jump in anywhere outside of close range: HCL. STBT vs 6HS oki. If he knocks me down, pray that I have the skill, knowledge, and reflex to save my ass. Personally maybe 5.5-4.5

[TGS]

bucklemyshoe: Just because Koichi can do it doesn't mean everyone else can. Edit: And also try playing a Potemkin that actually blocks and uses backdashes at the right times...

[koogy]

hm just do tons of mix-ups, everything hits potemkin's huge-ass. combos last half an hour also.

[Spirit Juice]

combos last half an hour also.

You sure you're not playing Arcana Heart?

[TGS]

You sure you're not playing Hokuto no Ken?

Fixed.

[chun_li1]

Anyone have the Dizzy ranking, details by POscrub? I was suppose to be on page 57 (this being page 78), but looks like POscrub took all his posts w/ him to his grave lol Much appreciated if someone copy pasted it b4.

[Hellmonkey]

I think people missed my point of tossing out Wild Throw and CH's. I was talking about analyzing a particular branch of Sol's combo options. Like say you tagged someone with a 2P for whatever reason, what's the most damaging guaranteed followup you have now? Doing a Wild Throw or Gunflame would uncombo in that situation. I didn't mean, Sol never lands Wild Throw or CH Gunflame in general.

Anyways. Another speed job, unproofed, semi-incomplete. I'll probably finish it some other time.

Dizzy:

• Max damage B: Bubble combo is her strongest. Damage ranges between 50% and somewhere between 70 and 80%. Doesn't get the opportunity to land this combo much though.
• Average Damage C: A hit -> ground gatling typically results in about 30% damage.
• Pokes B: Dizzy has lots of options here, the variety makes up for the particular weaknesses of the individual pokes, Grade reflects the overall ability of all her pokes taken together.
• Pressure/Lockdown B+: Rather than pressure, you should be thinking more about mixups. She can't do the ??? special anymore, plus she doesn't raise the guard bar much. Nothing really special here. [??? I hate names, so I won't bother guessing. Setup for Slash Dizzy was Ice Spike, P Fish, Scythe, Spear, K Bubble -> Followup. Follow up being

  1) air dash j.P,j.P, j.H (high),

  2) (land) 2D xx Ice Spike FRC -> combo (low hit),

  3) (land) dash up throw]

  [by nothing really special here, I think it's compared to what it used to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx43R86GnTw, see round 4, starts at 2:27 or so]

• Mixups A: Throw range [Longer than usual], Double airdash can setup 50/50's, lots of options and [renkei] is strong.
• Okizeme A: Loopability, Damage, difficulty for opponent to block properly. Dizzy's oki is strong in all of these categories.
• Against ground C: Not good. j.K has a crazy hitbox, but not much downwards coverage, j. 2S, Dizzy's hitbox is a lot bigger than her attack's hitbox.
• Anti-air B: 2S is pretty good. But that alone isn't what makes her AA strong. j. P, Ice Spear, and Air throw should all be used liberally.
• Breaking out of Pressure D: Given rating reflects the fact that although Dizzy's counterattack options are poor, it's easy for her to run away. In terms of actual counter attack options, her best are the unreliable Imperial Ray [disappears if Dizzy gets hit, trades poorly], Necro Coffin Super, and close S.
• Defense E: Takes extra damage, easy to dizzy, no guts, and has a big hitbox.
• In general B: Bubble makes for a great deterrent. Add to that her double air dash which gives her good mobility, and Imperial Ray can be used if she wants to create some distance.
• Overall Rank D: Weaker character, hard to win with
• Good matchups: Probably Potemkin. Dizzy should do well against Testament too. [Guess] Anyone else she can get set up on easily.
• Bad matchups: Chipp, Ky, Faust, + characters who specialize in mid range combat.

there you go

[chun_li1]

there you go

That was fast :china:

[sogos]

anyone happen the translation of the Millia rankings? Thanks in advance!

[ky0n01]

shouldn't i-no be considered as a bad matchup for venom? seriously she's worse than fighting slayer..... i can hardly summon balls when fighting her and most of her normals just beat mine except for 6P but 6p is unsafe bec of her STBT.. and i can still remember koichi saying his matchup ratio against venom is 8:2

[koogy]

venom can 6P the fuck out of her, and she can only eat 2 combos and dies. she also has some terrible defensive options koichi also plays again n-o lots i'm sure

[ky0n01]

venom can 6P the fuck out of her, and she can only eat 2 combos and dies. she also has some terrible defensive options

koichi also plays again n-o lots i'm sure

yeah 6p is indeed a pain in the ass for her, but STBT makes it a fucking 50/50 guessing game for venom. i just had a match with 2 i-no players today and my random 6ping pretty much solved the problem lol.

[Josh Ballard]

Here's a thought: Might ABA qualify as A Class in the American tournament format? Due to the mechanics of Moroha, she is prone to losing matches where she made better decisions overall than the opponent. If this happens once in Japan, you're done. In the West, on the other hand, you get another game PLUS a whole new 2/3 even if you lose that one as well. It just seems to me like she's the inverse Makoto.

[Digital Watches]

Er. First off, you make it sound as though it's random whether her lifebar gets eaten, which it definitely isn't. Secondly, why would losing one match be any different than losing two matches in terms of the character? Is there some effect independent matches have on each other that I wasn't previously aware of? I sort of get what you're trying to say, but I don't think it's really the case.

[GreasyGyro718]

if there was an american format tier list, baiken would be S+ AKA: we can't fight da bacon